Jointech still in business or just bad customer service?

[Niels J. Larsen]

The 3rd of June I ordered a Jointech Smartlift Digital router lift along with some accessories.

After several e-mails from me requesting an order confirmation with expected delivery date and shipping cost (since I'm in Europe), I received an answer the 10th of June.

The message was that it was backordered, but no delivery date. Shipping cost information was included.

I asked once again about expected delivery date (still the 10th of June) and the 22nd of June I asked about this AGAIN.

So far - no answer.

I really want this router lift due to the very easy way of setting router height accurately and repeatedly, however it's apparantly not available anywhere else and not at all here in Europe.

However I'm very close to simply cancelling my order and find another product, but would like to hear your oppinion.

Are these guys still in business and just performing VERY poor customer service or are they dead and gone?

If anyone knows of another online store that sells the Smartlift Digital I'd be happy to hear about it.

[Greg Crawford]

Neils,

My understanding is that the company is now in the hands of the founder's heirs, and they're not doing a good job with it. This is heresay, so may not be true.

I have the Jessem Masterlift XL, which is great. However, there have been some recent comments here on the Creek from some Jessem customers that are disturbing about that company, as well. Just do a google search on SMC for Jessem and you can find them.

I don't understand why a company can make great products and then let their market get away. Many of the newer lifts, and some of the older models still being made, have great fine setting devices, although they're all analog as far as I know. I've found my Masterlift to be accurate to less than .002".

Greg

[Jim McDonald]

Jointech is being handled by family members after the death of the owner...they are a little difficult to deal with. I had received a new lift from them (ordered through Rockler) The digital portion didn,t read out. Rockler wouldn't handle the required part replacement so refered me back to Jointech. Jointech delayed contacting me, and when they did, it was with the explanation that parts were on back order and they didn't have a new unit in stock.So I contacted Wixey. Barry (Wixey) was willing to send the replacement unit to me if Jointech didn't or wouldn't. Jointech finally came through with the part as well as an apology for the way things were handled...one of the reasons given was the death of the owner and the ensuing problems. However, that was several years ago!

[Jerome Hanby]

I think you can buy the Wixey part used on the smart lift and incorporate it into your own router lift. If that isn't correct, i bet you could adapt one of the other Wixey products for that use.

Looks like this (http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=149571&FamilyID=21186) from Woodcraft at about $80 would do the trick...

[Paul Johnstone]

Neils.

I have a different brand of router lift. I use an analog height gauge. These can be picked up very cheaply as used on ebay ($20-30) (there's digital as well).
I also use set up blocks.

If you have a lift with a digital reading on it, You are going to have to take the time to zero it out every time you change a bit. Not a huge deal, but not significantly faster than using a height gauge or setup block, IMO.

Good luck though. I ordered a router fence setup from them back when the inventor was running the company and was very satisfied. I know others have had problems with them. Not trying to be a fanboy, just saying they aren't always bad. :)

[Ron Bontz]

Just an FYI. Jessem went through some reorganization and had some issues with the phones and internet site. They have since then corrected some problems and did take care of my request. I believe you will find they do try to take care of their customers. With that said I hope Jointech is still up and going. I like their router fence system. Best wishes.

[jason lambert]

Lets just say I would not get one if they are in busness they have not gotten any better over the past years since the owner died. No one will carry them anymore. It's ashame it's a great idea wish someone else woudl do it.

[Jerome Hanby]

Neils.
If you have a lift with a digital reading on it, You are going to have to take the time to zero it out every time you change a bit. Not a huge deal, but not significantly faster than using a height gauge or setup block, IMO.


I understand your point, but I think the biggest boon would be in sneaking up on a cut. It seems like I constantly apply a little too much force and adjust something too far. The digital readout would help me get the adjustment I wanted without my usual bouncing around, readjusting, retest cutting.

[Glen Blanchard]

I purchased a Jointech digital lift the first month they were available (quite a few years ago). Although I have had some minor problems with it (all resolved) I love the digital feature and would not want a lift that did not incorporate this technology. However, this is not the first thread I have seen with folks complaining about their CS. It is indeed unfortunate, as they make some very nice accessories. However, Wixey has introduced a DRO that can be incorporated into many (all??) lifts. You may want to consider this option if you are unable to resolve the situation with Jointech.

http://www.wixey.com/remote/index.html

[Cary Swoveland]

Over the weekend I emailed Jointech to enquire about the status of an order I placed July 2 (three weeks ago). I had never received a shipping confirmation and/or tracking number. I received no reply yesterday (Monday), so today I phoned. I've phoned three times so far. There has been no answer, no voice mail. Also, there is a notice at the web site that the office will be closed until July 20, which was yesterday. Perhaps it should have said "until at least July 20".

Hoping for the best, but fearing the worst.

Cary

[Peter Kuhlman]

Jointech was working on a new table saw fence like the Beismeyer (sp) with digital accuracy. This was about 3 years ago now and it never made it to market. Sure was wanting to see it for use in my tiny shop as the arm on my Incra sure gets in the way. Hope they solve their internal issues and get back to doing business as usual.
Pete

[Larry Heflin]

I got a sale advertisement from them on July 4th for a sale on certain items which ends July 31 according to the ad. So there must be some life there. E-mail address from which it originated was ezs@itoolscompany.com


Larry

[Niels J. Larsen]

Over the weekend I emailed Jointech to enquire about the status of an order I placed July 2 (three weeks ago). I had never received a shipping confirmation and/or tracking number. I received no reply yesterday (Monday), so today I phoned. I've phoned three times so far. There has been no answer, no voice mail. Also, there is a notice at the web site that the office will be closed until July 20, which was yesterday. Perhaps it should have said "until at least July 20".

Hoping for the best, but fearing the worst.

Cary

I ended up cancelling my order since I simply didn't want to wait any longer.
I've received no answer or confirmation from them that they have actually cancelled my order, so maybe someday a router lift will show up in the mail :rolleyes:

Niels

[Gregg Feldstone]

The problems yall are having with jointech are indicative of the business and work ethic frequently encountered in south Texas.....been here my whole life. One can usually find something done better somewhere else. There are dozens of businesses in every city in the area which have done things the same sloppy way for a long time...decades in some cases.

[Cary Swoveland]

I finally got through and was told my July 2 order would ship Monday. Fingers crossed.

Cary

[Glen Blanchard]

I just called (Thursday, 7/23/09, 10:00 am CDT). Got an answer and am on "hold" right now. Somebody appears to be home.

[Robert Mishler]

Interesting this has been going on since last year. I have tried and tried to contact Jointech to get a part for my Smart Lift. 800 number is dead,m no response to e-mail, and finally found a local number. After many calls, a women answered, sounded surprised I called on that number, but stated no one was available to help me. She said she'd have someone call. Of course, no return call for one week. I tried again and actually got through to a "tech support" person who stated they had no spare parts and didn't know when they would get more. I was to call him in one week, but you know how that has gone over the last month. No answer. I really like my Smart Lift and use it almost everyday in my cabinet shop, but can't afford this type of service.
Time to look at other router lifts.

[Jim O'Dell]

That's a real shame to hear. I have the SmartMiter and love it. Very good quality The only dealings I've had for service has been with a person at a local Woodworking Show event. Very helpful and even had some of the slick tape for the bottom to add on to mine for it to ride in the proper place on my Ridgid saw with the open mesh extension tables. But this was about 5 years ago. sounds like the family should have sold the business after the owner's death. Sounds like they don't have the passion for it that it deserves. Jim.

[glenn bradley]

Interesting this has been going on since last year.

I have been lucky. Reading all the posts here and on other forums I have steered clear of Jointech. It pains me to read so many posts about the poor performance of a company that by all reports, turn out quality merchandise. There's always an excuse but, the behavior is consistently reported.

[Robb Graham]

This is a copy of my post on the problems that I have had with Jointech. I wanted to make sure that it was available in this thread, so that anyone who is considering purchasing their product can see what their in for:




I purchased a Jointech sawtrain system with a smartlift router lift about 5 or 6 years ago. I was satisfied with the product and the customer service was pretty good. :)

Last October my Smartlift, decided that it would prefer to stay in one position and stopped lifting and lowering. There was no way to fix this myself, so I called Jointech and spoke to someone, who gave me the instructions for returning it for service and said that it would be done in two weeks. Two months late,r I still did not have it and encountered several weeks of not getting anyone to answer the phone. Finally, I got someone on the phone who said that it had not been fixed, but that he would see that it got done. About two weeks lated I got a call saying that they had fixed it and were shipping it. During this process they were moving so I had hoped that this was a temporary issue.:confused:


Unfortunately, I was wrong. This April I bought a Ridgid R4511 saw for $369 when BORG was unloading them like they were linked to causing cancer. I called Jointech to purchase some longer rails for the R4511.


Over the last six months, I've called hundreds of times and gotten them on the phone two or three times. They did not have any rails that were longer than 40" in stock and were supposedly getting a shipment in a month. I've yet to see my new rails despite numerous mesages, emails and faxes. Unfortunately, I have not found anyone else who makes the aluminum extrusion that Jointech uses.:mad::mad::mad:

In August I found several Jointech items for sale on ebay. I spoke to the seller, who was a one of Jointech's landlords. He had acquired quite a bit of their merchandise when he seized some of their inventory due to the fact that they had not paid their rent. I get the feeling that this problem has extended to their aluminium extrusion supplier as well. The landlord had a bunch of phelolic tops. He said that he sold a lot of them to either Woodpeckers or Incra I think. He said that the orginal owner of Jointech, who had invented the system had died a few years ago and that his son in law was now trying to run the business. He sold me some used rails, that I have cobbled together with my old rails, and I now have a serviceable system for my saw.

In light of the problems that everyone seems to have with Jointech, I think that you would have to be crazy to buy into their system now. In my search for extrusions I ended up speaking to the technical advisor for Incra, while he did not know where Jointech gets their extrusions, I told him that there are a tremendous number of unhappy Jointech owners out their, and suggested that Incra should come up with an adapter kit so that its products would with Jointech systems, before some other company cashed in on the pent up demand for parts and products from thousands of dissatisfied Jointech customers.

[david worthington]

I know I'm new to this board, but I came upon this thread and needed to add my bad experience to the growing list:

About a year ago my wife ordered a digital router lift as a birthday present for me from jointech/itools. My birthday is close to Christmas, the lift didn’t come for either and in February she got a call asking if she still wanted the tool. She said yes, and sometime in March it showed up. OK, should have said no, but she was trying to treat me specially and knew I was building a router table for my woodshop and wanted a lift. A good friend said, this is the one, and so she stayed with it. I finish the router table in April, set the lift in place and…it would not go up and down on its risers. I fiddled with it for a bit but took nothing apart. I called the company and explained, Ernest told me that they would send a new lift out and that once it came they would send a technician to pick up the old lift. I think, fantastic. No new lift came, no technician. I call. Nobody answers. (yeah, I shifted verb tense here, it adds to the currency of the narrative) I keep calling, I get Ernest again, he says, sorry it slipped through the cracks, we’ll send a new one out. Again, nothing. Again, I call, now nobody answers and the 800 line goes down. I send emails, still nothing. Finally somebody makes a mistake and picks up the phone when I call the non-800 number. She tells me, ok, ship it back and we’ll send another one out. I ship it out and get confirmation of delivery. No call, no new lift. Now they have my money and the product. I’m feeling pretty stupid, but also angry. I start calling every couple of days. I get a secretary once who promises to have somebody in authority call back. Doesn’t happen. Now it’s a game because I have given up hope of getting my money back, then, by some miracle, I get Ernest again. I say look, just give me my money back. He tells me he will credit my wife’s credit card. We wait about 10 days but nope. So I start calling every day, and once more I get through to Ernest. He says that my wife’s card has been replaced and they wouldn’t take the pay-back but he’ll get a check out to me. Nope. I verify all information about address, he says the check is now cut and will go out immediately in the mail. Nope. I’m fed up and call daily. I leave a message to call me. I am NEVER profane or impolite, though there is occasionally some minor sarcasm. No answer. No call back. In the intervening months, looking online I find out that the company has an F from the Better Business Bureau and several online stories of horrible customer service—though most seem to eventually get some satisfaction. Anyway, I post a negative review, copy it and send it down to the customer relations email address just for kicks. Amazing, the next day I get an email (below) from Ernest. I’ll let readers decide for themselves what he is saying, but I gave him 10 days to get me a check or I would post my story for others to read as a consumer caution. No check. So, my wife is out $329 (not a lot, but it’s a principle thing), and I don’t live in Texas where the company is located so I can’t file in small claims. I’ve long since given up on actually getting my money back but I would hate for other people to throw their money away.

David Worthington

This is the email from Ernest
First of all, I sincerely apologize. I am in currently in a very tight squeeze and trying to get past this experience that I would not wish on my worst enemy. I started working for Jointech in 1990 and never have seen a softer economy than what we have been faced with for the last 2 years. Although I am aware that you couldn't give a rats you know what, it is what it is right now. In the last few months we have had posters spewing so much crap about us on the web that it has become a snowball effect and has been really hard to combat. It has really put a dent in our cash flow. Just when things seem to be lightening up ---> here comes another. Some of these guys are from years ago that make it seem like we are, as you say, "a fraud". In fact, I have had 3 customers within the past month charge back on their credit card huge system sales that total in the thousands of dollars. You know why? Because there are bone-heads out there saying that we are going out of business. So the customers don't return anything to us - they just call up their credit card company and tell them that they never received the goods. Then we automatically get the funds pulled from our account without any warning. It then takes us to prove to the credit card company that the goods were shipped and that they were delivered. The burden of proof is on us. Then it takes weeks for the funds to be returned. In the mean time I get cash strapped for raw materials because not only do the bills keep coming in - I still gotta make payroll...
I have said more than I initially intended to say. Again, I am sure that you couldn't care less. I have had a check written out since the day I spoke with you and I have every intent on sending it out - that I assure you. I would expect that it can mail out by Monday unless your plan works. You obviously have the right to keep posting about us, but that's not really going to help the issue at this point. And no, we are not going out of business. And no, I didn't bother clicking on the link to whatever website you posted on inside Google.
This will be resolved shortly.
Ernest

[Dan Hintz]

And no, we are not going out of business.
They may not go out of business in an official capacity, but it is certainly down the tubes with no way back up. Credit card companies cancel accounts after enough chargebacks, you can't get credit with companies for large orders to have on hand / in stock, etc. Sorry, but you can't claim chargebacks and lack of liquidity is your major problem when it takes you months to return a repair, hundreds of calls to answer a phone, etc.

Sometimes companies just need to fail...

[Ruhi Arslan]

[...] In the intervening months, looking online I find out that the company has an F from the Better Business Bureau [...]
Obviously they didn't pay their "membership fee" to BBB either. It doesn't change the facts of your own experience with the Jointech, but BBB grading means nothing other then what level of "membership" they purchased from BBB and if they pay dues on time.

[Dan Hintz]

According to the BBB now, Jointech has a B+ rating and they have supposedly processed 0 complaints about them in the last 36 months.

Sad... really, really sad...

[Don Bullock]

Niels, in 2006 when I bought me new table saw I had a choice of Incra or Jointech for the fence. At that time there were "fans" of both on the WWing forums, but also many who complained about Jointech's customer service. Over the years since then I have been very happy with the Incra fence and have bought several other products from them. As for their customer service, I haven't had to use it often, but when I do they respond very quickly and have also offered me deals that were better than those on their website. You're not the only one who has been having problems with Jointech. I'm so happy I chose to go with Incra.

[John Coloccia]

According to the BBB now, Jointech has a B+ rating and they have supposedly processed 0 complaints about them in the last 36 months.

Sad... really, really sad...

Do some research on a company called iTools LLC.

[Mark Woodmark]

Bought a opposite hand positioner from them a year ago. Very hard to get a hold of them by phone or email at the time. Took forever to get the thing. Finally got the order filled by calling Earnst at his home. Wont EVER buy from them again. Seems like their customer service problem is on going

[Matt Meiser]

iTools probably has an F rating because they failed to respond to a complaint. From my understanding, that's an automatic F.

http://www.bbb.org/central-texas/business-reviews/machine-tools/itools-company-in-san-antonio-tx-90073753