New Saw Stop PCS Dust Collecting Blade Guard [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Paul Ryan

06-24-2009, 10:49 PM

I finally found some pics and info on the blade guard that will come with the SS PCS saw. I was told it looks pretty cool but had never seen it. I came across an artice on popular woodworking tonight. It does look pretty cool. I am not too excited about another hose and noise maker in my shop, but this blade guard is included with the new saw. That should be another selling point.

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/SawStop+Tackles+Table+Saw+Issue+2.aspx

Frank Hagan

06-25-2009, 1:40 AM

Interesting looking design. I don't really see a dust port, unless its straight out the back. And I wonder what the two metal rods on top are for?

Glen Blanchard

06-25-2009, 9:17 AM

Interesting looking design. I don't really see a dust port, unless its straight out the back. And I wonder what the two metal rods on top are for?

I believe the Sawstop folks are claiming 99% dust extraction using this design without using any kind of above the table vacuum.

Frank Trinkle

06-25-2009, 10:28 AM

Interesting looking design. I don't really see a dust port, unless its straight out the back. And I wonder what the two metal rods on top are for?

The rods look like they are there to assist raising the unit when sliding a piece under the hood to cut. Looks like it would be a smoother rise than current hood designs.

Anthony Anderson

06-25-2009, 10:36 AM

Wow! That is a nice, well thought out design. They must have one of the best design teams in the power tool industry, if not the best. That is a very cool.

Frank Trinkle

06-25-2009, 10:51 AM

Also just noticed the anti-kickback pawls incorporated in the design. NICE!

Paul Johnstone

06-25-2009, 11:01 AM

I believe the Sawstop folks are claiming 99% dust extraction using this design without using any kind of above the table vacuum.

Not too doubt them.. but how does that work?
If all the vacuum is coming out of the bottom, does the dust thrown by the blade get sucked in through the blade slot?

It seems to me that if the dust guard is "sealed' well enough to avoid throwing dust in the air, it's going to have a difficult time getting enough air flow to pull the dust thrown by the blade.

Again, I am not calling them a liar, I just don't see how this would work (which is probably my own short coming :) )

Frank Trinkle

06-25-2009, 11:08 AM

It seems to me that if the dust guard is "sealed' well enough to avoid throwing dust in the air, it's going to have a difficult time getting enough air flow to pull the dust thrown by the blade.
Go to the link that Paul put in the first post. The mechanics of DC for the guard are explained...

Here it is again:
http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/...w+Issue+2.aspx (http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/SawStop+Tackles+Table+Saw+Issue+2.aspx)

How did they do it? In laymen’s terms, engineers found a way to transform the normally turbulent air surrounding the saw blade into laminar air that travels like a jet stream. In other words, SawStop molded the blade guard and manipulated the lower dust shroud to move the air – and the corresponding wood dust – directly toward and into a hose connection in rear of the blade guard

Glen Blanchard

06-25-2009, 11:10 AM

Not too doubt them.. but how does that work? )

Although I am not familiar with their new guard, I can tell you that (as a result of their under the table shroud design) my original Industrial Sawstop does a tremendous job of minimizing (not eliminating by any means, but minimizing) the above table dust. I replaced my "only about one year old at the time" JET cabinet saw and was pleasantly surprised with the difference in the amount of dust it collects under the table. I assume this newer generation Sawstop takes that one step further.

John Gornall

06-25-2009, 12:13 PM

Rod Sheridan

06-25-2009, 6:52 PM

Frank Hagan

06-25-2009, 11:04 PM

I believe the Sawstop folks are claiming 99% dust extraction using this design without using any kind of above the table vacuum.

The blog article says the guard has a hose connection at the back; maybe they meant underneath. It would be nice to have just a single connection to the table saw.

Paul Ryan

06-25-2009, 11:19 PM

Frank Hagan

06-26-2009, 1:59 AM

From what I under stood. This directly from SS before I bought my PCS saw. The new blade guard will require a seperate hose to it. That kind of stinks I was hoping they would design some way to use the existing dust collection port. My shop vac is entirly to nosiy, I will never use this guarde if I have to use my shop vac. Even though I have never mounted the guard that came with my saw on it.

"Laminar air flow" or not, it would be hard to do it all from underneath. I'm not an engineer, but the way the dust flies forward as the saw cuts would make it hard to pull it under the table without a hole in front of the blade for it to go into.

The guard itself looks like it is in two or three pieces (the clear plastic). I'm assuming it slides up and down to accommodate the stock.

Its an interesting design. I think SS is doing some of the most creative engineering we've seen for a while on table saws.

Frank Trinkle

06-26-2009, 7:49 AM

From what I under stood. This directly from SS before I bought my PCS saw. The new blade guard will require a seperate hose to it. That kind of stinks I was hoping they would design some way to use the existing dust collection port. My shop vac is entirly to nosiy, I will never use this guarde if I have to use my shop vac. Even though I have never mounted the guard that came with my saw on it.

Paul,

Get a Y connector to attach to your 4" just before the table saw and add a 2 1/2" adapter to one side and simply connect that to the back of the guard and the other side to the lower DC outlet. Don't need to use your shop vac.

http://www.amazon.com/Jet-JW1015-4-Inch-Y-Fitting-Connector/dp/B00005A1I8

http://www.amazon.com/Jet-JW1039-1-Inch-Multiple-Adapter/dp/B000077CPN

Cheers:D

Brian Kerley

06-26-2009, 8:14 AM

"Laminar air flow" or not, it would be hard to do it all from underneath. I'm not an engineer, but the way the dust flies forward as the saw cuts would make it hard to pull it under the table without a hole in front of the blade for it to go into.

The only way dust gets flown back "up" at you is not when the blade makes the cut, but when the dust is carried by the blade <i>after</i> the cut and is pulled all the way around once it comes back up out of the table. If you can capture that dust under the table then it never has a chance to be thrown back up at you.

Paul Ryan

06-26-2009, 9:00 AM

Paul,

Get a Y connector to attach to your 4" just before the table saw and add a 2 1/2" adapter to one side and simply connect that to the back of the guard and the other side to the lower DC outlet. Don't need to use your shop vac.

http://www.amazon.com/Jet-JW1015-4-Inch-Y-Fitting-Connector/dp/B00005A1I8

http://www.amazon.com/Jet-JW1039-1-Inch-Multiple-Adapter/dp/B000077CPN

Cheers:D

Frank,

Thanks!
That is to simple, I would have never thought of that. I would have made it a much more complicated engineer feat to accompish the same thing.

Frank Trinkle

06-26-2009, 9:07 PM

I'd add a blast gate to the Y connector so that when I'm not using the guard, I can shut off that side.

Also... I wonder when SawStop will ship that and the other mods to those of us who were field testers...??

Alan Schwabacher

06-26-2009, 9:38 PM

And I wonder if they will offer that guard as an add-on for their other saws.

Paul Ryan

06-28-2009, 4:46 PM

Alan,

I read some place else that if you called SS and you had a ICS saw they were going to give away, yes give away, some of the overhead guards for ICS saw to promote that fact that the guard works on the ICS saw. Give them a call and ask if it will work. If you are lucky they may send one for trial.

Rob Price

07-01-2009, 10:48 PM

I'Mm just hoping this guard doesn't deflect sideways as much as the current one does.

Joaquin Franco

07-24-2009, 5:54 PM

Here is a bit more information on the dust collecting blade guard.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/awfs/index.php/2009/07/sawstop-professional-cabinet-saw-features-advanced-dust-collection/

Joe Jensen

07-24-2009, 7:36 PM

I have a SawStop Industrial Saw (original one), and I saw the new guard at the AWFS show in Vegas last week. The guard is very nice, and with a shop vac, the dust collection was impressive. It has extra side pieces that drop down to the table if the cut is less than a blade width.

The issue I see, is that it seems to be designed for a shop vac and not a dust collection system. The port on the rear of the guard is very small, maybe 1" inside. A good shop vac pulls 90" of water in suction, but will only do maybe 100 cfm. A dust collector, is designed for lower pressure, but higher CFM. The relationship between pressure and CFM in a port is approximately equal to the area of the port. A 4" duct can flow about 350 CFM with about 10" of pressure. At the same 10" of pressure, a 1" dia port can flow only 21 CFM. Since the shop vac has 90" of pressure, it can flow 9X the CFM through the 1" port. That would mean the shop vac could pull about 180 CFM. But, the shop vac can only pull about 100 CFM, so the best it could do is 100CFM or 5X what a dust collector can pull through that small port.

If you doubt this, drill a 1" diameter hole in a scrap that is at least the size of your dust collector opening. Put the scrap up to the end of the dust collector pipe and see how little air flows. Then put it against the shop vac hose and see how much more it pulls.

I have been using a Felder guard for a sliding table saw on my SawStop. It has a 1.5" diameter port, still very small. I may rig up a cheap shop vac near the ceiling just to pull dust off the top of the saw.

Rob Price

08-12-2009, 11:49 AM

This will be interesting. I just bought a small shop vac with a 1.25" opening. It fits onto my plunge router, ROS sander, and works great for a quick clean up of the workbench. I have it mounted on the wall with an 8' hose. The smaller hose is much more flexible than the standard 2.5 shopvac hose. I wonder if this will work with the new guard? If so, I need to get it wired with a switch next to my current DC switch, or maybe go with the Y adapter someone else mentioned. I just wonder with the DC hooked up to a 4" port, how much flow will come through a tiny 1" hose going up top? The airflow is going to take the path of least resistance (ie 4" opening).

Andy Sowers

08-12-2009, 12:03 PM

Any of the field testers get their new blade guard yet? Anyone know when its supposed to arrive?

--andy

Chip Lindley

08-12-2009, 12:29 PM

With a totally enclosed blade...inside a dust extractor guard....would not an explosive safety brake which stops the blade within milli-seconds.....Be OverKill?

But, then again, there are some who still would have to raise the guard to see what's happening!

Gary Venable

08-12-2009, 1:31 PM

Does anyone know if it is interchangeable with the guard on the Industrial Saw Stop?

Joe Jensen

08-12-2009, 2:05 PM

Does anyone know if it is interchangeable with the guard on the Industrial Saw Stop?

I attended the AWFS show in Vegas and SawStop had the guard there. They said there was a version for the Industrial Saw. I think the price was like $99

Paul Ryan

08-12-2009, 2:19 PM

With a totally enclosed blade...inside a dust extractor guard....would not an explosive safety brake which stops the blade within milli-seconds.....Be OverKill?

I tend to agree with that. It would be very difficult to injure yourself with that set up. But I know of some people that would find away to do it.

I for one did not buy the saw for the dust collecting guard, even though I am interested in seeing it. My plan was to use the guard on this saw more than I had other guards in the past. But I can't bring myself to use it. I have put it on the saw a 1/2 dozen times and still hate using a guard. It is the anti kick back pawls that drive me nuts. Once the new guard arrives I am going to take the pawls off the old guard and see how I like it that way.

Barry Vabeach

08-12-2009, 3:07 PM

Paul, not that I would do such a thing on purpose, but I have the PCS and after using it and being frustrated by the pawls a few times, one of my files accidentally fell against each of the barbs on each pawl a few times until they were dulled a little, and I find that the guard is a little less frustrating. I also found that I don't use the guard much when using the miter gauge at other than 90 degrees because the guard tends to deflect to the side instead of going straight up over the stock. As Rob says, there can be quite a bit of sideways deflection, though as others have mentioned, it is still a great saw.

Joaquin Franco

08-12-2009, 8:37 PM

I read from popular woodworking that the new guard will use two sets of pawls, I think this will be a huge improvement.

Take a look at the new blade-guard design. The rods you see extending to the front are there as a limiter. If the stock you’re working doesn’t fit under the front piece attached to those rods, it won’t fit under the pawls either. And take a closer look at the pawls. You see two distinct sets. The smaller pawls are there for light cuts in thin stock while the larger pawls, the size we’re used to seeing, are for typical operations. When not needed, the larger pawls hook into the guard setup to stay out of the way.

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/CommentView,guid,bc8079cf-2cd5-4de9-83c3-20cc7c14d41b.aspx

David Schmaus

09-04-2009, 5:36 PM

Has anyone used the new guard yet? I picked up my new saw today and the guard looks great. If someone has it hooked up could you post a picture. I want to see how you have it plumbed.

Rob Price

09-04-2009, 5:44 PM

Still waiting, no word on a ship date....

David Schmaus

09-04-2009, 6:28 PM

Thought I would shoot some video of the new guard. I don't have the dust collection hooked up yet but this might give a better idea of the design. The audio is wack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6FgZ3xAlM8

Vic Damone

09-04-2009, 8:37 PM

The great secret has been revealed - companies in North America actually have to start seriously engineering their products. In woodworking particularly we have put up with backyard cobbled equipment designs for far too long.

+1 John

After reading the explanation in the original post I'm sitting here shaking my head. Even if this dust collection guard works half as good as expected it's simply another reason to applaud the people at SawStop. Instead of wasting time and money engineering a way to put the tilt wheel on the front of the saw so it looks good SawStop uses it's limited resources to make the safest table saw healthier to use. What's next?

Noah Katz

09-04-2009, 10:33 PM

"The only way dust gets flown back "up" at you is not when the blade makes the cut, but when the dust is carried by the blade <i>after</i> the cut and is pulled all the way around once it comes back up out of the table. If you can capture that dust under the table then it never has a chance to be thrown back up at you."

There's also the dust generated at the back of the blade as it exits the wood.

I think this may the case to some extent even with a perfectly aligned blade because of springback of the wood.

Anybody who's ever had a perfectly aligned blade (I haven't) have an opinion about this?