RAS - Proper Cutting Technique?

[Matt Hutchinson]

So, I was talking with some co-workers the other day about using a radial arm saw. (I work at a Woodcraft store.) I was taught to pull the carriage through the workpiece, even though it's a climb cut. But a rep from a saw blade company said to always withdraw the carriage first and push the blade into the wood. Which method do you employ and why? Why not the other?

Hutch

[Stephen Tashiro]

When you put a board on the table to cross cut, are you going to pull the saw out toward you to the end of carriage first and have it in the way? Or will you leave the saw pushed away from you, put the board on the table, raise the saw, pull it back toward you, lower it and then make the cut?

I don't think the idea of always making a push cut is very practical. Plus, if the saw is going to hit something and jump toward you, would you rather having it moving in a groove that is already cut or getting slowed down by having to climb over an uncut section of the board?

[Fred Hargis]

I am absolutely astonished that a "rep from a saw blade company" would make such a suggestion. Doing it his way could well be more dangerous on a tool that many already consider one of the more so in the shop. I've used one for over 30 years and have never even considered a push cut, and I think you would have a hard time finding such a method referenced in any of the reputable books on using an RAS. I'm really amazed at his suggestion.....but that's just me, I guess.

[Bill White]

I learned on a RAS, and I've pulled thru the cut. Push cuts on a slider MS 'cause you can get the blade up and out of the way before you start the cut. Keep a straight arm when pulling thru. It lowers the chance of a climb-out.
Bill ;)

[Phil Phelps]

Unless you're making dado cuts with a regular blade, pull the blade to make the cut and then push it back.

[glenn bradley]

I am absolutely astonished that a "rep from a saw blade company" would make such a suggestion.

I've got to believe that he thought it was an SCMS and not a RAS.

[Roger Newby]

I agree with Fred. My first saw was a Craftsman 10" RAS bought in 1976 and I still use it a lot. I've never even considered a push thru cut. The machine wasn't designed for that and it would be more difficult to find the cut off line.

[Jamie Smith]

Wouldn't that also reduce the width of board that you could cut as well?

[David DeCristoforo]

I would have to agree that the suggestion to "...always withdraw the carriage first and push the blade into the wood..." is a "bad" one. Imagine having to hold the saw carriage in the forward position with one hand while you attempt to position the material behind the blade with the other. The wider the stock, the more difficult (and dangerous) this will be. Furthermore, if you are using an end stop, you will have to get the stock up against the stop and behind the blade and.... well, you can see what I'm talking about. It is much better to pull the blade through the material. True, it is a "climb cut" and the saw will have a tendency to "self feed". But this is can be overcome by having a sharp blade, keeping a firm grip on the carriage handle and advancing the blade through the material at a controlled rate.

[Ryan Baker]

I have made cuts both directions at times, but I would not normally use a push cut. In addition to what has already been said, think about what the blade is doing. With a pull cut, the blade rotation will tend to push the board down to the table. With a push cut (depending on depth), the blade will tend to lift up on the piece. Not that any cut on a RAS is particularly safe.

[Louis Brandt]

I've had my 1960's Craftsman 10 inch RAS for about 20 years, and from day one, I've always used a "pull cut" for a crosscut. No one that I've ever known, nor any manual that I've ever seen recommended a "push" cut for a RAS.
Louis

[Brent Smith]

I've got to believe that he thought it was an SCMS and not a RAS.

I hope this is the case, otherwise this rep could set someone up for a serious accident with his lack of knowledge. Even at that I would think that the guy should have been paying enough attention to know which machine was being discussed before offering his 'professional' opinion. Then again, these days, just because someone reps a company doesn't necessarily mean he knows anything about the product.

[Chip Lindley]

WRITE the manufacturer and take exception to the advice offered by their *so-called* professional rep! Even if you don't know that particular Rep's name, give as much factual info as possible to give ligitimacy to your complaint. Word will quickly circulate throughout the company, because of paranoia over Liable $uits.

Oddly, sliding miter saws (which cut on the Push Stroke) made RAS climb cutting easier/safer when negative hook cut-off blades were introduced. Blades with agressive positive hook angle Will catch stock and lift it on a push stroke, OR self-feed and ride up over stock on pull stroke.(Dangerous/Scary!) Although Neg. hook blades were designed primarily for SMCSs on the push stroke , RASs benefit just as well, on the Pull Stroke!

All things being equal, CUT on the pull stroke when practiceable with a RAS. Why expose more blade than necessary?

[Matt Day]

I was taught to pull cut as well, but I have push cut at times as well. I'm a little confused as to why it's so dangerous to push cut. I understand the push cut could possibly have a catch and flip the board up, but I think that is a minor concern with modern blades and if you have enough wood to the left of the blade to hold down firmly.

If I have a small piece that I can securely grip on the left side of the blade, I'll sometimes pull the headstock back before turning it on, align my cut, turn the saw on, and push it home and leave it back there.

Then again don't use mine for much other than cutting rough stock down to size (I can't keep it aligned for accurate work) and when I do use it I cut on the pull stroke as I said.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't think it's the end of the world to push cut.

[Louis Brandt]

It may not be the worst thing in the world to "push" cut, but I'd challenge anyone to show me a user manual for a radial arm saw that recommends a "push" cut for crosscutting.
Louis

[Ron Jones near Indy]

I've used a RAS for 50 years--yeah, Dad started me on it at 12 years old. We won't debate the judgment he used. I have never heard anyone who I considered to be knowledgeable or seen a good reference on the subject say push it. Never!

[Matt Hutchinson]

Well, I feel vindicated. I kinda just nodded my head, but inside I was thinking it didn't make sense to push through a cut. Too many safety issues. The rep said the pull (climb) cut is unsafe, yet I would rather a blade climb into a workpiece and stop the motor than kick back when pushing.

As far as the blade rep goes, he's been in the business for years. He's what you might call 'an original' and he even was acquainted with Mr. Sawdust the RAS guru. That's why I found it funny for him to recommend the push cut. Dunno where he came up with that one.

On a well maintained RAS, unless you have the wrong hook angle, pulling through the cut just makes the most sense to me.

Hutch

[John Baranowski]

I have never understood what is so dangerous about the RAS. If you free hand is well out of the cut line, so what if the blade climbs out? The carriage should limit the travel of the blade, correct? Or is there an issue with the carriage turning when the blade rides up? I rarely use a RAS, so I am not too familiar with all the aspects of the saw.

[Fred Hargis]

I have never understood what is so dangerous about the RAS. If you free hand is well out of the cut line, so what if the blade climbs out? The carriage should limit the travel of the blade, correct? Or is there an issue with the carriage turning when the blade rides up? I rarely use a RAS, so I am not too familiar with all the aspects of the saw.
Usually, discussions about the danger of an RAS are centered on ripping operations. They are like any other tool in the shop, and must be used with some common sense. I no longer rip on an RAS, not because of the danger (which is there) but it's just so much easier on a table saw.

[Chip Lindley]

Wayyy back in the '70s, Sears advertised the RAS as a saw that could do *everything*! The RAS was pitted against the TS instead of complimenting it. But, a 10" RAS with only a 3/4hp motor can only do so much--designed with hobbiest/home-owners cutting pine and plywood! The heavier Sears *Commercial* 12"/1.5hp RAS by DeWalt was far beyond my budget! Delta/Rockwell was totally unheard of by consumers during that *Sears catalog* era!

Even in my early 20s, I could still reason that the RAS was better suited for cross-cutting, mitering and dados, while the TS forte' was ripping. DUHH! I purchased both NEW and used them accordingly. Ripping on the RAS (on a few special occasions) was more annoying than dangerous IMO! The guard could be tilted forward to cover the blade, but sawdust flew everywhere above the cutting surface, right at Me!

Fine Woodworking mag educated me beyond the Sears catalog in the '80s! I discovered hardwood, and also discovered crosscutting 4/4 oak became a very slow process for the paltry RAS, to avoid climb-cutting and stalling the saw. Ripping 4/4 at the TS was doable, with 14amps, but I discovered Biesemeyer put any Crapsman fence of that era to shameful Shame!. Now I am the proud owner of an 18" Rockwell 7-1/2hp RAS for crosscutting *ANYTHING!* And, a 5hp Unisaw and 3hp PM66 for Ripppps!

The '70s was good for Sexual Revolution, but it wasn't worth a *Craps-man* for REAL woodworking!

[Bill White]

Dang!!! 7.5 HP......You could cut a CAR in two with that beast.
Bill :D

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Here's another vote for that dude being way off base. Never push cut on an RAS. If he had the right blade on it, pullcuts are easy and a little downward pressure keeps the climbcut at a minimum.

[Herbert Wallace]

If I remember correctly, the old Craftsman manual recommended a push cut only when cutting metal.

[John McClanahan]

After reading thru this thread, I decided to get out the owner's manual for my Craftsman RAS that I purchased new in 1980. On page 2 it states under "DIRECTION OF FEED",

Feed work into a blade or cutter against the direction of rotation of the blade or cutter only.

Then on page 23, under "REQUIREMENTS FOR CROSSCUT", the illustrations indicate the cut is made by pulling the carriage toward you.

Guess I should have read the manual better 29 years ago. I always cut on the push. :eek: But then, I seldom use the saw.

John