Pocket screws with stub tenons?

[Thomas Williams]

I am gong to be constructing some frame and panel type panels to be used as cabinet ends. I plan to use a groove and stub tenon construction. To speed construction I was thinking about using pocket screws. I was wondering if anyone has done this. And if so, how well did it work?

[Matt Meiser]

I made large doors for an entertainment center about 2001 that only had 1/4x1/4 stub tenons on frames about 2" wide. The panels were 1/4" plywood. They've held up fine.

Most cabinet doors don't have anything but a fancy profile stub tenon.

Unless they are going to be subject to racking forces, it seems like an extra step that won't do much for you. And if they are, a larger tenon (which could be done as a loose tenon after you've done your stub tenon cuts) would be much stronger than pocket screws for that application.

[Peter Quinn]

It should work, drill the pocket screws BEFORE forming the stub tenons. Not sure I see the point however. A typical groove for cabinet panels is 3/8", and a 3/8" stub tenon glued in is more than enough to hold together paneled ends. Thirty minutes in clamps and your good to go. The pocket screw will act as your clamps, which might be important if you had a lot of panels to make and not many clamps. For a few panels, I would skip the screws altogether.

[glenn bradley]

Thomas mentions that he wants to speed construction. I believe he intends to use the screws as a mechanical fastener as opposed to clamping for 30 to 40 minutes. I would clamp and wait for the set period recommended by your adhesive maker.

For example; I clamp for about 30 minutes then remove the clamps IF I need them for another assembly. I generally leave any glue up about 24 hours before "working" further with the pieces. If this is a speed job and you can't wait, you might consider a brad nailer although a screw will be stronger. Personally, I'd use patience instead of screws.

[Russell Tribby]

If you're looking to speed construction/cut down on clamping time I'd second the suggestion to use a pinner or brad nailer.

[Peter Quinn]

If this is a speed job and you can't wait, you might consider a brad nailer although a screw will be stronger. Personally, I'd use patience instead of screws.

That was sort of my thinking. I can glue and clamp a few end panels WAY faster than I can set up for pocket screws, do a test piece, tongue the test piece, etc. You should be gluing them anyway, so the screws are just one more step. If you were running butt joints sans tongue and groove, or doing a lot of paneling where the clamps being tied up become an issue in your production, I's see the efficacy of the screws. Otherwise I would plan my production so that the glued panels could cure while I did other things.

For instance I am making a cabinet with finished end panels at work right now, I started by making and gluing up the end panels, they are now ready for installation as soon as I am so I am not waiting on clamp time.

[frank shic]

did an experiment recently and found that if you don't form the stub tenons, the pocket screws will still grab enough meat beyond the dado to hold the joint tight.