Rejection Continues.....

[Steve Clarkson]

I don't mean to complain.....well, not too much.....but it's depressing.

So I contacted the director of a local wine festival and asked if I could engrave the festival logo and the sponsors logos on a few wine bottles/glasses/etc. and offer them to his sponsors for promotional purposes, etc. and would split the profit with him.....ie. no money out of his pocket!

His response was that all his sponsors were in financial distress and besides, he could get engraved wine glasses for $2 each on the internet.

Good......I hate using my rotary anyway.

[kyle bonnell]

[QUOTE=Steve Clarkson;1159939]

His response was that all his sponsors were in financial distress and besides, he could get engraved wine glasses for $2 each on the internet.QUOTE]


If his sponcers were in financial distress then why exactly were they sponsering a wine festival? Cheap advertisements I guess.

If he could get those glasses for $2 fine but they won't be American made by Steve Clarkson.

However your cards are delt you'll always get your big hand someday. It just wasn't meant to be today.

[onur cakir]

Here is the deal !

Send your rotary to me and i'll pay you $2 for each engrave job ! :cool:

[nancy barry]

Some years ago, I tried the same thing for our local festival.. They order 8K+ glasses! So, I truly had $$$$ in my eyes! However, they could get them from a US company silkscreened for $1.00 each. I could not even buy the glassware for that price.. and NO! No Way would I have done the job at the price.. I like my $.01/hr profit! ;) Also found out that the specs were written so that it was almost impossible to outbid the company who had the contract as they wrote the specs.I even pointed out that I was female and local; mattered not. :mad:
BOTTOM LINE.. I went to the Festival anyway with a generic wedding image on a 4 oz wine glass . As time permitted, I showed it to owners of the vineyards at the show, gave them my business card, took theirs. I followed up the next week and got several good orders for some vineyard specific samples glasses and then a deal on custom glasses.. One could also do up a wooden case for a bottle of wine and 2 glasses as a suggestion of something that the winery could offer...

A good friend is in charge of a major summer festival that relies on sponsorship for a lot . He has truly had a very difficult time getting long time sponsors to part with $$$ this year. So, what the festival guy said may well be the case. Things will change for the better.. We will all be ready with excellent products!

Keep knocking on those doors.

hth, nancyB

[Tim Bateson]

The biggest Wine Festival in my area was taken over by the county this year as it was being held in "their" park and they wanted a bigger piece of the $$$...... Due to a lack of organization it's now been canceled. Maybe next time they'll leave these type of festivals to the those with the know-how.
I had produced stock to sell at a booth there too. :mad:

[Frank Corker]

It might well be changing. If a promotional company is prepared to bid as low as they have, it means that things must be even tougher for them, I doubt if they can sustain low profits over an extended period of time.

There is also a troubling side, I remember when they first started sub-surface lasering, the picture in the cube, expensive at first and now? Well most people have something that has been done 'inside the cube' but they are a little like a*sholes, everyone has one. The value for their work is now buttons. The items have a very low wow factor and I feel for the people who bought yag lasers, multi-thousand outlay and no profit to be made. These are the ones who are probably engraving the glasses that Steve described.

.....sigh :(

[AL Ursich]

A Winery in my area close too... It had some great small shows and events... A Airline Pilot that brought back the best stock money could buy and had a great location...

We are a tourist supported area and Little money is being spent....

AL

http://www.calkinscreekvineyard.com/

[Mike Null]

Steve

Find end users. Don't waste your time on middlemen.

[Doug Griffith]

I'm amazed companies can service their debt at such low rates. I've seen large companies do jobs at no margin and just for cash flow. Basically riding the storm with half the crew and half the lights turned off. How can the smaller guys compete with that? A one man shop can't send home half a man.

On a lighter note. I am still involved in bidding jobs (not laser) every day. Sometimes 3 a day. Most are thermoforming but at least its manufacturing jobs in the US. The work is still out there. It's just fewer and farther between.

Keep at it Steve.

[Larry Bratton]

Steve:
Have you ever thought of doing ADA signage for buildings? Point is, that it is a HAVE to item. It is code driven. It's not that difficult to do either. You need to bone up on the requirements and get Aaron's braille tool. Keith does tons of them on Corian but they can be made from acrylic and other materials.

[David Fairfield]

Bah, I remember approaching potential customers back when the economy was booming. They were always saying stuff about nobody can afford that and what they can ALWAYS find BETTER on eBay for PEANUTS (yeah right) and blah blah blah. The only difference now is they have an economic downturn to blame for being a cheapskate who pours $50 worth of wine into a crummy $2 glass.

There is still a market out there. I have a couple of big-ish orders already booked for lasered glasses for Christmas. I don't really like doing them but they're loyal customers so I will for as long as they keep coming back.

Dave

[Stuart Orrell]

Times are a changing.....again......:eek:.........I've been through this sort of thing before in the (automotive design industry) and its a case of adapting to survive.

Here's how I see things. The bar was raised in the past by the quality improvements brought about by laser technology. The world has got used this and the previous "wow" is now the norm. Clients try to drive costs down as some products reach mass production levels.

I'm sure the business we have been providing will continue to still be there as things pick up in the future (coming weeks - I hope:)).

However, I think there is a need to raise the bar again and stay ahead of the curve.

I'm quite new in this arena and still use my 3d design experience as my main income source. I was lucky to be able to translate my automotive experience of designing plastic and metal bits and pieces to another industry, that is doing rather well, despite the economic mess that's out there.

I got my laser machine last year to diversify and allow me to be more creative. I've cut my living costs down and spent a lot of my time since then trying to develop skills (learning a ton from you good folks!), learning some photoshop and illustrator and at last things are beginning to pay off, in a small way.

During the last two months I have done a few photo's for people, a 4ft long boat name on some flooring material for a yacht refurbishment, and some tab and slot acrylic pieces for prototype research equipment.

It's a start and I am surprised at the diversity that is coming my way. I am getting repeat business too now.

So, what am I babbling on about.....Bottom line, times are changing, a lot of the old business will still be there for us but not all......There are other undiscovered needs and treasures out there.

Since necessity is the mother of invention, we need to find new ways to use our technology to bring more added value to clients......So, chin-up and keep that old pioneering spirit rolling..........

I have seen tons of creativity and perseverance here. Keep it up, the world will be a better place for it.

Sorrrrry for the lonnnnng posting :rolleyes:

[Scott Shepherd]

Wrong market. They are in the promotional products category. Don't try to compete against promotional products companies.

Where are you in N.Y.? I'll (and I'm sure others), will be happy to take a few minutes and look at your area and tell you what we see, from the outside looking in. If you'd rather not post it publicly, feel free to PM me.

[Gary and Jessica Houghton]

Steve,
Keep your head up. Are there any wineries around your area? Are you hooked up with the local chamber of commerce? There has to be someone that wants 40 pieces of something instead of 100 or 1000. You can offer your services that way. Market yourself with a low minimum quantity or none at all for the promotional business.

[Steve Clarkson]

Yes, I have a TON of wineries around me......I just can't seem to get them interested in engraved wine bottles, glasses, or boxes.......and I usually get rejected before I even discuss minimum quantities or price!!!

[David Christopher]

Steve, get away from the regular stuff....have you thought about doing harley stuff....around here harley people are the only ones spending money......think,

harley logo on

jewlery box lids

key chains

chrome parts

check with the local dealer and see if he will put your stuff on consignment.......ever think about engraving guns.......maybe talk to Ed Sallee about making you some boxes then engrave harley logos or something on them....I can think of a lot more.....sorry to bother you if you have allready tried these

[AL Ursich]

Harley... I know a Vinyl Shop in Philly that Harley put out of business.... Ouch... Caution....

As for other wine ideas... I saw a project posted here, a acrylic that was cut out with a center hole and 2 slots for wine glasses. It rested on the bottle... Looked nice... A Laser Project.... 2 glasses hung upside down.

AL

[Doug Griffith]

I hate to say it but you'd be pretty daring to put a Harley logo on anything and sell it. They protect their trademark vigorously.

[Gary and Jessica Houghton]

Yes, I have a TON of wineries around me......I just can't seem to get them interested in engraved wine bottles, glasses, or boxes.......and I usually get rejected before I even discuss minimum quantities or price!!!

Maybe try to go with a bottle that is already etched. Or glasses or boxes.

If the customer has something in hand to look at and play with, that might be your way in. You also might want to bring with you a bottle of Earthquake wine. They etch their bottles. You could show the comparison.

Just my two cents. I don't know about the Harley thing either. The stories I've heard about protecting their copyright is a bit too much. Just like I would never do any Disney!

Have you tried any type of manufacturing? Making things and selling them to local stores?

[James Rambo]

How about RV repair shops in your area?
We were asked by the owner of the RV shop my wife works at (office manager) if we could build a dash panel for a coach, that had been broken. They can not get a new one from the manufacturer because they are out of business. Most of the RV suppliers and manufacturers are closing shop. It could be a good job remanufacturing dash panel, labels for various components within the RV's that can no longer be had from the manufacturer.
The RV repair shop had no idea that it could be done by laser, but my wife overheard the problem when the machanic was talking to the boss about the problem getting the part.

[Steven Wallace]

Steve, I know this job is not big but I just got an order to engrave the name of a lace making organization on their award bobbins for the 2009 State fair in Sept. I bid $60 for the 30 of them but the bobbins are only about $6 a piece and they are all the same. If I am set up right, it is about 30 minutes work. I am trying to drum up some business, not drive it away.

This was another one of them word of mouth references from a previous customer. Anyway, the customer's husband told them the hand burned ones they did last year looked like crap and they shouldn't put their name out in less than a professional manner. I am going to hire him as my sales rep! :) Anyway, since then I have been getting a lot of what used to be nuisance jobs but these are starting to pay off a little bit. I guess I have to look at "not the size" of the job but the "hours I am working". Currently running round trying to grab the big job isn't cutting it. :mad:

[Dee Gallo]

Steve, I know this job is not big but I just got an order to engrave the name of a lace making organization on their award bobbins for the 2009 State fair in Sept. I bid $60 for the 30 of them but the bobbins are only about $6 a piece and they are all the same. If I am set up right, it is about 30 minutes work.

Steven,

I'm no good at math, but at $6 each, the bobbins cost you $180... are you saying you are getting $60 for each one or $60 for the whole 30? Or is the customer providing the bobbins and then you spend 30 minutes engraving for $60 which makes the most sense?

At any rate, this is the type of job that gets your name out there to people and that's what we're all trying to do. A unique award like that will draw attention and get people talking. Good going!

cheers, dee

[Dan Hintz]

$2/item for a quick engraving job isn't bad money at all. It looks shy on the money side because you're not doing 1,000 of them, but the price is about where I'd start.

[David Christopher]

Steve, this is the kind of stuff I was talking about...not pantended stuff

down here this kind of stuff will sell

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Now that it has been posted here a few times now don't worry about that black Crown Victoria parked outside your place with the super dark tinted windows with coffee cups and cig butts outside it's drivers door. Harley's legal research staff is just counting the $$$ when they see posts like this. All it takes is one person that bought an un licensed Harley logo item to share who they got it from to the wrong person.:(

PS Disney doesn't like non licensed people selling their stuff either.

[Dave Garcia]

Steve,

I feel your pain, having started my own business years ago. But like finances/Econ 101, never spend more than you make, I found out the hard way that two basic rules from Business 101 are as profoundly true and as "real" today as they were back then. Keep your start up business as small as possible for as long as possible while being well capitalized. And secondly, for most small businesses, especially those where you are the primary "worker", word of mouth is the best way to gin up business. Find one client for one project and do it well. The rest will follow.

Now that I've said that, I'm sure I've insulted someones intelligence out there for sure. My apologies in advance. But this has worked for me. And, as an IBM add in a very old Time Magazine stated so well, you can't make an informed decision without at least trying to get most of the answers!

Good luck!

Dave Garcia :)
The Wood Block, Ltd
-----------------------
MacBook Pro OSX+
LaserPro C180 (soon)
Photoshop Elements 6
Logo Design Pro

[Doug Griffith]

I've been deep into Disney Imagineering R&D. All I can say is Disney is one tough nut and protects their properties to no end. I've also looked into licensing the Harley logo. Same thing. Both have very narrow licenses and strict guidelines. You more or less have to follow their style sheets and get approval for each usage. While I'm at it, throw Lucas Arts in the same pot.

[Steven Wallace]

Dee your math is correct. I am not providing the bobbins. What I am trying to say is that it would hard for me to get them to send more than $2 engraving a $6 (original price) item.

[Steven Wallace]

Dave. Your laser is not going to do any of that type of engraving on firearms. In my opinion the best you can hope to do his something like the attached pic. Also, Harley Davidson has a licensing as your suspected. They don't even want you using their parts to laser engrave. I have done some of that. What you are showing is something that has been machined and then plated. Note that depending on the original finish of the firearm, cermark may not be necessary but any S.S. or Chrome will.

[Phil Salvati]

Steve,

The motorcycle world is a big area for business too!

I am not sure what part of NY you are in but there are many custom builders in the area I am from in lower NY, as well as many many MC's!

There is a custom builder in NYC whose emergency pick up number was 1-800-OILY-RAG... Now that was a great business move.... I have used him more than once too, just because his number stuck in my head!

Go to Bike nights and rallies in your area with sample pieces such as:

Points covers, Primary Covers, Floor boards, Leather patches (POW-MIA, Pres, VP, SGT at Arms, etc. All small for front of vests) Front fork tube covers the list is extensive. All of these things are available on Ebay.

I have done many things with them aside from just using Ceramark on the chrome. Wrapping them with leather, annodize then engrave, bead blast then engrave then clear PC. PC then engrave and paint fill.... NOTE... Pot metal (which most cheap primarys and point covers are made from) cannot take 400 degree heat for PC!

The last custom build I worked on won the build off in Arkansas, then took third in Sturgis last year.... I only played a small part in it... but it was great advertisement.

Bikers love to make their bikes and vests unique! I did a few custom pieces for a few members in several clubs.... it caught many eyes!

Watch out though.... Those mid-life crisis bikes can cost you... I'm on my third custom build of my own! ;)

[AL Ursich]

I love the "Evil Inside".

I had someone ask me about using that Circle and Inside with there product name. I was searching and couldn't find anything on weather Intel Copyrighted the Swish or what ever it is called and inside?

Any pointers on that?

I am seeing the V Carved wood signs part of my business picking up. With me doing so many different things in my shop, it helps the bottom line.

Good Luck,

AL

[Dan Hintz]

You better believe it's copyrighted by Intel... they use the swish in advertising for almost all of their processors.

[Steven Wallace]

All I actually am and intel employee on my real job and you can bet everything from the circle to the color ink is trademarked.

[AL Ursich]

:D Thought So.....

AL