question for Jim Koepke

[David Christopher]

Jim, I hope you dont mind....Ive read your informative thread about planes ( and enjoyed it ).....Ive recently got a few planes that my dad gave me that was my grandpas and your thread has helped me get them going and now I think Im hooked....anyway I want to get a new LV or LN...and FINALLY the question?????? what is the good, bad or difference between low angle and high angle planes and for general stuff which one be the best to buy ( Im thinking a #4 and maybe a #7 )

[Ben Davis]

Jim, I hope you dont mind....Ive read your informative thread about planes ( and enjoyed it ).....Ive recently got a few planes that my dad gave me that was my grandpas and your thread has helped me get them going and now I think Im hooked....anyway I want to get a new LV or LN...and FINALLY the question?????? what is the good, bad or difference between low angle and high angle planes and for general stuff which one be the best to buy ( Im thinking a #4 and maybe a #7 )
Not Jim, but.....

You need to strongly consider a bevel up jack plane for "general stuff."

Keeping in the neander way, wood, is referred to as stuff. You'll want a higher blade/bed angle for figured stuff to avoid tear out. The highest angle "plane" that's out there is a card scraper... no tear out there! Low angle plane are better for the end grain of the stuff. It'll slice through the fibers.

A quick search of the neander section will provide you will produce copious amounts of reading material about these planes.

[David Christopher]

thanks Ben, so are you saying I need a LA or BU for regular stuff and HA or BD for figured stuff ???

[Sam Takeuchi]

Sorry David, I don't mean to spoil your question to Jim. I just want to clarify something here.

It seems like there's a misconception about LA/BU planes and I want to address that. Yes, higher angle is good for difficult or gnarly wood, but unless one uses LA/BU as dedicated shooter or for end grain work, I don't think anyone uses it at default low angle at all time. The good thing about LA/BU planes is that it has wider range of cutting angle, with 37 degree and up (if minimal bevel angle is 25 that is). All it takes is a micro bevel as wide as human hair to change from low angle to high angle. My BU/LA planes have normally 38 degree blade to form 50 degree cutting angle. Even my old Stanley #60 has 33 degree blade (45 cutting angle) for regular work, because I like how it's light and nimble. For end grain work, I have 25 degree blades for LA/BU planes as well as block planes and I just put them in. I also have 50 degree bevel blades for them. So basically even my low angle block plane is good for anything from end grain work to gnarly wood, so are my LA/BU planes. The good thing about LA/BU is they cover wider area of work, from end grain to difficult wood, their versatility is the major point people buy them for.

If someone who has a LA/BU plane for general use (not as dedicated shooter or end grain work) and disregard them for difficult grain wood, he (or she) paid too much for a plane. A regular $30 Stanley from eBay does that just fine.

[David Christopher]

thanks Sam and Ben, I guess I should have made this a general question for all you guys that know this stuff..it was that Jim done a good job on his other thread.... Im sure anybody that uses planes all the time would know these answers....I dont want to spend alot of money on something that aint what I need...Im new at the cordless tools, and thats why all the questions....again thanks

[Jim Koepke]

thanks Sam and Ben, I guess I should have made this a general question for all you guys that know this stuff..it was that Jim done a good job on his other thread.... Im sure anybody that uses planes all the time would know these answers....I dont want to spend alot of money on something that aint what I need...Im new at the cordless tools, and thats why all the questions....again thanks

Since I share your sentiments about not spending much money, I have never acquired any bevel up planes other than block planes. My experience with BU block planes likely could not properly evaluate a BU bench plane.

Almost all my experience is with the Stanley/Bailey bench planes. I am still learning things about them.

jim

[David Christopher]

thanks for all the replies...Im sure its going to take some practice to get the full understanding

[Ben Davis]

Just read the threads as they come up. You'll be well on your way within a few months.

Sam got to the point of the versatility of the BU planes. You can basically use one plane body for the work of multiple planes from low angle on up. They make excellent shooters and great workers. Yep, they can be spendy.

A lot of this also depends on your knack for fixing and tinkering with things. If you're into this as a hobby there is no reason to not find the time to rehab and older plane. If you're into production work and this is a living, then maybe not so much.

Just remember... mistakes happen more slowly with hand tools. It's a blessing in disguise!

[Sam Takeuchi]

It's me again. I think it's more of personal preference when it comes to plane arsenal. Some people prefer to have dedicated low and high angle planes. Others like to have a couple of versatile low angle planes to cover wider range of work. I use both bevel down and bevel up planes and I like them equally, I'm not partial to bevel up or down. As long as they suit the task at hand (and happen to have sharp blade when all others are dull), I reach for either of them.

For final smoothing, I tend to reach for certain planes for certain wood. I work a lot with spruce and rosewood, I use BU smoother for those, but 37 degree cutting angle for spruce and 50 degree cutting angle for the rosewood. For ebony, I use a standard angle bevel down Record No.4 with extra sharp blade (BU planes never worked well on them for some reason). Edge jointing and flatten, I use standard angle bevel down Stanley #7 (I don't work with large or long stock of difficult grain, so I never felt the need for BU jointer. One trick pony #7 does all I need fine). Flattening curly maple, I use LA jack, because it flattens it well and leaves a surface smooth enough I don't have to smooth it with a smoother.

If you read a bit on hand planes, and imagine what kind of wood you'll be working with, I think you'll start having some ideas as to what kind of planes you'd need. Maybe for the time being, you can put the purchase on hold and use the planes you have now. More you use it, you'll get the idea what your planes can and can't do well. Consider your options at that point. Maybe they'll all work fine on the types of wood you work with and the only considerations will be the size. In that case, there is no point spending $200 - 300 on a LA/BU plane when a $20 - 50 vintage Stanley work just fine. Like I said, LA/BU's advantage is the versatility. LV/LN low angle or bevel up planes are quality planes, but a well tuned vintage goes a long way for much lower price.

[David Keller NC]

"I dont want to spend alot of money on something that aint what I need...Im new at the cordless tools, and thats why all the questions....again thanks"

If low initial outlay of cash is your preference, be aware that you can do everything with a bevel-down antique Stanley that you can do with a bevel-up plane. The main advantage of a low-angle, bevel up plane is that it can be configured with a 25 degree blade bevel angle to yield an overall cutting angle of 37.5 degrees (on a Lee Valley BU design, anyway). This low cutting angle is excellent for slicing end grain.

Other than that, whether you choose a bevel up or a bevel down design is largely a matter of preference, because you can get a very high cutting angle on a bevel down plane simply be putting a very thin back-bevel on the blade.

I'll also note that it's not a requirement to have an ultra-low cutting angle to slice end-grain either - I use a miter plane with a standard 45 degree cutting angle for the purpose.

What you do from there is also a matter of preference - the advantage to spending $200-$300 on a Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley plane is that it will work and work correctly right out of the box with the only thing needed from you is a bit of honing the iron. A $30 e-bay special Stanely may need some work. There's a lot of information on this in the Neander FAQ, and it's worth reading. You may decide messing with an oldie is worth the savings, but then again you may not.