New holdfasts

[Richard Dooling]

Have you ever gotten a tool and wondered how you ever got along without it?

Well if you don’t have holdfasts for your bench, do yourself a favor and get some! I received two of the Gramercy holdfasts yesterday. They are very reasonably priced. I have some of another brand that have never worked right - I think it is because my top is too thick for that design. I decided to try again after seeing a video of Franz Klaus and Roy Underhill cutting dovetails.

As soon as I got the package I ran out and tried them. What a revelation. Whack! and the board is down really tight. Whack! and the board is loose and repositioned. I took a ¾” x 4” board clamped on edge and cut a ¼” mortise in the edge with everything nice and solid. This is going to improve and speed up any number of operations.

[D-Alan Grogg]

I'm very happy with my Gramercy holdfasts, as well.

[Larry Heflin]

Likewise, I'm very pleased with mine. After cleaning the new off, and giving them a light sanding they work perfectly

[Richard Dooling]

Larry is right. They need a little wipe down and Joel at TFWW advised me to roughen the shaft for a better grip. Sand around the shaft, not vertically.

[Greg Crawford]

Got mine at Woodcraft. It needed some smoothing of the hold down pad. When I saw how well it worked and how simple it was, I just started laughing. Here we are in the 21st century with tons of technology, and this crooked piece of steel works better than most new tools. I use it all the time now. I've thought about getting another, but just haven't seen the need.

[harry strasil]

I like mine better after I learned how to make them, Mine you hit where you should and the thin springy part that does the holding is a big plus.

[Brian Kent]

Yes, but is a Harry Strasil holdfast available for us mere mortals to buy?:D

[harry strasil]

its entirely possible, but mine are hand made and they won't fit in a 3/4 hole, 13/16 is best, but I could make a smaller shank that would work. have no idea of cost, only made them for myself so far.

[David Keller NC]

Not sure what Sir Harry would charge, but hand-made ones out of mild steel are generally around $120 a pair. While pricey compared the piece 'o junk cast iron ones, they hold work far better and don't break - ever.

[Dave Lehnert]

I'm very happy with my Gramercy holdfasts, as well.

Me too.

They are only $31.95 a pair. A BARGAIN!

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/prodimg/ms/big/MS-HOLDFASTXX_big.gif

[David Gendron]

I love mine, I did lined the pad face with leather and it's worth it no marring of the wood! I also have a paire of hand made one frome Galena Vilage Black Smith and dispite the higher price tag they are the best out there... so far... Sorry Harry, I would have to try yours for a test drive so what about a price for a paire that would fit a 3/4" dog hole??

[Richard Dooling]

David, I've seen a picture in a holdfast review of the Galena Vilage Black Smith version and it was a nice little piece of art - but what does one cost? The reviewer raved about them and the credentials are sure interesting!

http://www.galenavillageblacksmith.com/index.html

[harry strasil]

$120 a pair, Jeez, I don't use GOLD to make mine. LOL

[Bill Houghton]

I don't use GOLD to make mine.

Good thing - gold would be hard to temper to the right springiness. Unobtanium is better.

[Don C Peterson]

I too like the Gramercy holdfasts, but after Jr showed me the ones he made, I decided I could make my own hand forged holdfasts pretty easily and which might just be an improvement on the Gramercy's.

I don't weld mine like Jr., but I take a length of 5/8" round mild steel stock, and I flatten it out quite a bit where the gooseneck bend is to make it more springy. I now have 6 homemade and two of the Gramercy's. I like mine a bit better, the Gramercy holdfasts still get used, but they feel a bit too stiff now...

[harry strasil]

I did some checking on iron prices and I believe I can make my style for about $35 a pair, and no need to do any sanding, the mill scale finish on hot rolled makes an excellent friction base. I forge the holding parts so I can harden them a bit to make it springy, not done cold like the grammercy ones.

[Jerome Hanby]

Wow!! Can I sign up for a pair? Where/how to send the money?

[David Gendron]

I second on Jerome, let me know Jr when you have a paire for me!

[David Gendron]

Richard, I paid $110 for a paire last year. they work great and they look good!!

[Brian Kent]

Harry,

Sign me up too! Where do I send my money (if indeed you actually want to do this!)

Having an original would do my soul (and woodworking) good!

Brian

[Jim Koepke]

I am sure I could talk SWMBO into letting me spend that plus shipping to get a pair.

You are going to be one busy black smith if you take on making these.

jim

[Thomas Kila]

I would also be interested in a pair of Mr. Strasil's holdfasts. I own a pair of the Gramercy holdfasts and have no complaints. However, instead of leather on the hold down face, I used "Plasti Dip". (I read it somewhere...) No more marring the wood.

[Steve Sharp]

Hello Harry, If you do go forward with this I'd love a set. Your price seems way more than reasonable - so even if it goes up I'm interested.

Thanks, Steve

[David Gendron]

harry, if you still want to work wood... Maybe you shouldn't have mantion any thing on this tread... But I'm still interested for a paire;)

[Noah Vig]

Harry, I would also be interested if you decide to do this.

[harry strasil]

Well fellow WWers, before this gets out of hand, I am going to have to make 2 pairs and keep track of things just to find out if the estimated price I mentioned above is in the ballpark, from prior experience a more accurate and thus reasonable price can be arrived at by making more than one. I don't want to rip anyone off especially myself. And you must realize that with my back condition the way it is, mass production is going to be a few here and there as my condition allows. I would prefer to send the initial pair to one of you trustworthy WWers to try and evaluate before I really get into making some of these. So you choose one of you for the trial run.

Thank you.

Jr.

[Jeff Skory]

Harry, sign me up as well. I am in the process of building my Roubo bench and will be needing a pair.

[harry strasil]

I just remembered Don Peterson is coming up this weekend to pick up his 2 inch thread tap, would it be ok with all of you, if he were to test them and give an evaluation.

Thanks
Jr.

[Noah Vig]

The trial pair(s) should definetly go to someone other than me. I don't have the experience. I just bought the lumber to make my first real bench.

[Danny Thompson]

Make it Don, Harry!

David, so how do you attach the leather? Polyurethane Glue? Epoxy?

[Thomas Kila]

I would also not be the best person to test and evaluate the first pair.

[Brian Kent]

I'll volunteer to buy and review, but I won;t feel bad if it is someone else.

[Jerome Hanby]

I'm definitely still interested in a pair, but I'm still in the process of building my bench, so I wouldn't be a good test case:(

[David Gendron]

Don's sound good to me too!
Danny, I used Polyurehane(Gorilla Glue), I wet the leather a little and tape it on the pad of the hold fast. I over size the leather part and after the glue is cured, I trimed it flush to the pad and at the same time I get rid of the squeeze out glue!

[JD Dolan]

Harry,

Me too for a set, if you're up to it.

All best,
J.D.

[Brian Kent]

I'll look forward to Don's review.

As for my own interest (and I assume I speak for a few others too) having a HSHF would be fun and useful, but only if it is something you want to do, in the volume you want to do, and for the price that would be fun for you too.
;)

[Jim Koepke]

Running a trial to see how a production would go is a great idea.

I have never used a hold fast before, so I do not know that my evaluation could be any more than they work great or I don't know how to make them work.

I'd be happy to try though.

jim

[Thomas Kila]

I totally agree with Brian, Harry.

[Richard Dooling]

Been on a little holiday with my wife so I had not seen the direction this thread had taken.

I obviously have too little experience with holdfasts to be a good evaluator and since it sounds like Harry is comfortable with Don, he gets my vote.

[David Keller NC]

Harry - My thought here is that you may have way too many takers at $35 a pair. Regardless of whether you can produce them that cheaply, they are worth more - considerably more. My guess is at least twice that. And there is little need in working for $10 an hour - 40 years of blacksmithing experience is worth a lot more than that. Heck, even horse people will pay a lot more than that for a farrier....

[harry strasil]

LOL, when I used to help my Dad shoe horses back in the 50's we got $15 a horse and furnished the shoes.

I am not gonna get rich, but I am not getting hurt either, just a little extra to supplement SS and I smithed for 55 years before I was forced to retire.

All may not be satisfied, because they aren't real pretty and shiny, just bare bones holdfasts. I have enough iron for 9 pairs to start with and we will go from there, I never liked production work, but making some things is enjoyable. I loved what I did for a living and really miss it. I do small jobs once in awhile just to hear my wife complain about my clothes getting so dirty, and according to my Mother in Law, the only way I could get that dirty was to lay down and roll to work. LOL

[Jim Becker]

Yea, I have the Gramercy hold-fasts and they are wonderful things...they also get used a lot, both for Neander work and non-Neander work. I may buy a couple more someday...

[Don C Peterson]

I had a blast today visiting with Jr. He lives about two hours north of me but I'll report more on the visit as a whole in another thread...this is is about the holdfasts.

I got back from Jr's at around 4:30, just in time to help get the kids cleaned up, fed, and put to bed. After that was taken care of I ran down the the basement and put the holdfasts through their paces. I never really thought about how to review holdfasts but I figured the essential qualities that a holdfast needs is to hold things and be quick and easy to use.

So, here goes.

Here is a picture of the various holdfasts in the dog holes to get a perspective on the various profiles. From front to rear they are:
Gramercy, Strasil, Peterson (small), and Peterson (large)
121318
You can see here that Jr's holdfast has a smaller shank diameter than the others and is very distinctive in that it is of two piece welded construction. My bench is about 2 and 1/4 inches thick and the dog holes are 3/4"

Obviously, if you have a thinner bench with 3/4" holes the smaller shank will skew in the holes even more. The relationship between holdfast shank diameter, dog hole diameter, and bench thickness is a bit complex to go into here, sufice it to say that in my bench Jr's holdfasts worked just fine.

121315

Here the holdfasts are just laying on the bench top from top to bottom they are Peterson(large), Strasil, Peterson(small), and Gramercy
121316

Okay, now for the review: I put used a scrap piece of 3/4" Ash. I used each holdfast to clamp the Ash to the bench and then pushed and pulled to see if there was a discernable advantage in holding power. Obviously, the harder you hit the holdfast the firmer it will hold the work, but if you really whack them I figured I'd either break them or reach their maximum holding power. All of the holdfasts were able to push and pull the whole bench around without letting go. So, while I couldn't determine a "winner" they all did the job.

Now, holdfasts also need to be easy and fast to use. This, in my opinion is where Jr's holdfast really shined. The small shank is the quickest and easiest to place in the dog holes. Mine were the hardest to put in the holes because they fit the tightest in the holes. I, of course could solve this by using slightly smaller stock or reaming out my dog holes a bit. I'll probably just grind down the shank of my holdfasts a bit so I don't waste the holdfasts I've made or have to make a bunch of new bench dogs.

Jr's and mine released about as easily while this is the weakness I see with the Gramercy's. Because the Gramercy's are the stiffest of the holdfasts they don't have as much spring, and tend not to "pop" up out of the holes as much. It was pretty much standard to have to hit the Gramercy holdfasts two to three times before they really released, while Jr's and mine typically released on the first or second hit.

You will notice that my holdfasts are shaped with a sharper and higher gooseneck. This was very intentional because when holding thin stock the Gramercy holdfasts will seat down into the bench enough that it's sometimes hard to hit with a solid shot to the back for release. You can cure this problem by using blocks, but since I was making my own, I cured that problem by changing the profile a bit. Jr. solved that problem by making the back corner a 90 degree corner.

Don't get me wrong, I really do like the Gramercy holdfasts. They work great, but they could be slightly better. If you don't have access to a forge or aren't willing to pay a blacksmith to make you some holdfasts, the Gramercy's are the way to go. Now, Jr. is apparently going into limited production of his holdfasts, and if things don't change it sounds like his are only marginally more expensive than the Grammercy's. If you want my advice, get in on this deal quick, before Jr. changes his mind!

Just to be clear; I'm not going to be competing with either Gramercy or Jr. I liked making mine and I enjoy using them, but I'm not interested in making them for sale... I only included mine for comparison.

[Brian Kent]

Very nice review, Don. If Jr wants to make them, I'd like to buy some. Otherwise I'll get Gramercy's and expect them to work better than my (Rockler?) blue cast irons.

[Thomas Kila]

Thanks for taking the time to do this review, Don. And if Harry is still interested in making a few of 'em, I'm definitely still interested in purchasing a pair.

[David Gendron]

I thought I would post a few pics of the two models of hold fast I use, to show the differences. One is the Gramercy and I like them but even with leather pads they can still mar the wood! The other one are from Galena Village Black Smith and in my oppinion are a bit supperior...121390
You can see that they don't sit the same on the wood!
121391
the Gramercy tend to sit on its heal and have only a realy small area of contact to the wood!
121392
Wile the other one is releaf at the heal!
That's only my observation and my oppinion!

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

anybody know if a 3/4" diameter holdfast will work in a workbench hole that is 1" diameter?

I suspect it probably will not work.

[Richard Dooling]

Here is some interesting info on holdfasts. It seems that there are several relationships at work that determine how well a holdfast works.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/The_Mystery_of_Holdfasts/

.

[Don C Peterson]

anybody know if a 3/4" diameter holdfast will work in a workbench hole that is 1" diameter?

I suspect it probably will not work.


How thick is your bench top? I'd guess that as long as your bench top is 2" or more, it would work just fine.

[harry strasil]

with the springyness of the top pieces of my holdfasts, often I just push down on them with my hand to hold pieces lightly, it takes a mallet to release them tho.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

How thick is your bench top? I'd guess that as long as your bench top is 2" or more, it would work just fine.

I believe its about 3 1/2" inches thick. I may have to pick one up to try out.

[harry strasil]

update on the holdfasts, I made 5 more this morning early, and destructive tested the 5th one by using the hardy hole in my anvil clamping a piece of 2by, as designed the flat strap on top willl bend if you get too carried away, I was using a 3 lb smith hammer to tighten it. I finally broke it at the weld by clamping the shank in an old 8 inch RR vise and using a large monkey wrench to bend it back and forth to the point of failure. and we are not talking a small wrench.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/smithing/wrench2.jpg

I'm getting weak in my old age, I need longer and longer leverage handles. LOL

[Don C Peterson]

In my tests I was hardly gentle, but I didn't subject them to anything like that!

[harry strasil]

Well Don, in todays world most things are tested to the destruction point, besides I just wanted to test my own to see what they would take. I also tried straightening the end curve on the first ones, but no deal LOL

[Brian Kent]

I just received the pair of holdfasts made by Jr. Strasil. They are so much bigger and more solid than my cast iron Taiwan-made holdfasts. Not much comparison, but I will compare anyway.

During this test neither pair had leather pads attached. Both have the faces ground fairly smooth to avoid dings. Both sets smudged the wood but did not dent it. I plan on adding leather faces later.

I tried my BCI’s (Blue Cast Iron) hold-fasts on a ¾” thick board. My maple bench is 3-1/4” thick at the holes with ¾” round dog holes. I could not get the BCI’s to hold, using a steel hammer or a wood mallet. When I would just get one to stick, it would shake loose. Since I am not afraid of losing these now, I pounded harder and longer on various parts of the BCI’s to no avail.

Then I went to the HHH’s (Harry’s Handmade Holdfasts). I dropped them in the holes and found out I need to make an adjustment. Because of limits on space I have a toolbox under my bench. I had to slide it back a couple of inches because the HHH’s ran into the toolbox handles. Eventually the toolbox will reside elsewhere, so no problem.

One hit with the mallet and the holdfasts held fast. When I found the sweet spot, just over the post and angled back a few degrees, and I could not budge or tap the wood out from under the HHH’s. Wow. One tap on the back of the holdfasts and they popped loose.

[Brian Kent]

Then I looked at the length and wanted to see how high they would hold. First I tried 4” of stacked lumber. No problem. 5”, and it still held, even though the bottom of the holdfast was just above the bottom edge of the dog hole. I grabbed it and tried to yank it lose. It held fast.

One more comparison – Holdfasts vs. Screw Clamps. Both hold as tightly as I need. The holdfast is much easier on my wrist and forearm. I had a little repetitive stress injury and the frequent screwing and unscrewing clamps was really aggravating my right forearm. Problem solved when I can tap with a hammer instead of twisting a clamp handle over and over again.

Two more notes - the clearance is high and the face that touches the wood is rounded evenly.

I’m sold. These are excellent tools. My hat’s off to Jr. Strasil and his HHH’s!

[harry strasil]

A little TIP to those wanting to glue leather on the working area of holdfasts.

To glue leather onto holdfasts, glue a piece of leather on bigger than needed and have a scrap piece of styrofoam handly and secure it with the glued holdfast as the soft styrofoam will conform to the shape of the working surface for a nice glue job.

[Billy Chambless]

So, Harry -- how long is the line for a pair of those now?

[Jerome Hanby]

Got my pair of holdfasts in Today. They look great, can't wait to use them.

Thanks and fantastic work JR

[harry strasil]

at present I am out of material, I have made 9 sets and 3 are waiting for payment, 6 sets have been mailed, and I have to make 2 more sets to catch up,

Send me a PM with your name and mailing address and I will put you on the list for after the 4th when I go after more material.

[harry strasil]

whoever pays, gets them first, one person has been notified twice to send his mailing address with no response.

[harry strasil]

For those who recieve holdfasts from me, I would appreciate any comments, good, bad or indifferent about their performance and any proposed changes that could improve them. With normal use they should last a lifetime, but they are made to bend just beyond the weld if over stressed.

Thanks.

[Jim Koepke]

A little TIP to those wanting to glue leather on the working area of holdfasts.

To glue leather onto holdfasts, glue a piece of leather on bigger than needed and have a scrap piece of styrofoam handly and secure it with the glued holdfast as the soft styrofoam will conform to the shape of the working surface for a nice glue job.

This brings up a couple more questions.

What is the best glue to adhere leather to steel?

Does it matter if the leather has the smooth side or rough side to the metal?

jim

[harry strasil]

I have no idea Jim, I don't use leather, but I keep a can full of 1/4 inch thick 2 inch square scraps from cutting tenons once to use under my holdfasts.

[David Keller NC]

"What is the best glue to adhere leather to steel?

Does it matter if the leather has the smooth side or rough side to the metal?"

Jim - Not sure if this meets the criteria of "best", but I use 3M's #77 spray adhesive to glue leather to metal parts. It seems to work very well when applied to the smooth side of the leather, which is then adhered to the metal part. One advantage of this stuff is that it doesn't harden up like other glues (though it does "set" over a couple of hours). So if a sideways force moves the leather, you can just peel it back and stick it down again.

This stuff (#77) is also very useful for sticking sandpaper down to a jointer bed, a table saw, granite, or glass. The nice part is that as long as the sandpaper hasn't been left there for a couple of weeks, and it's the "wet/dry" kind with a sturdy backing, you can simply peel the paper up, and the glue residue wipes right off with a rag dampened with kerosene or mineral spirits.

[harry strasil]

most of the first 10 pairs have been delivered.

[harry strasil]

And the last pair have been spoken for.

Thank you all.
jr.

[Jeff Skory]

Thank you JR for sharing your skills with us. Aside from working better (based on the reports) it will feel good to use a quality tool made by a fellow craftsman rather than a factory made one.

[Billy Chambless]

Thank you JR for sharing your skills with us. Aside from working better (based on the reports) it will feel good to use a quality tool made by a fellow craftsman rather than a factory made one.

That's the biggest attraction to me. Not just a fellow craftsman, but a man I've been stealing ideas from for years!

[Eric Brown]

I got mine and they work very well. Thank you Mr. Strasil
Eric

122921

[Billy Chambless]

I got mine and they work very well. Thank you Mr. Strasil
Eric

122921

Thanks for reminding me that I need to clear off my bench before my holdfasts arrive -- at least enough to find a couple of dog holes. ;)

[harry strasil]

Be careful with that MR. business, I only own one suit to get married in the first time and its too small now. I wore it to a funeral at which I was a paulbearer one time and I stopped by my shop to see how my employees were doing on a RR truck project and several customers came looking for me and asked them where I was and I was standing right there at the time. I really liked that suit it was a 3 piece blue denim suit and I had a matching denim texas umbrella to go with it.

I feel comfortable in carhartt bibs so that is what I wear most of the time. I used to wear carhartt double knee work pants till I gained some weight and I lost my hips so to speak and had to wear Braces along with a belt to keep them up.

[Jeff Skory]

Got mine as well. Unfortunately my bench is not complete yet. Got the top together and each of the legs. Need to build the stretchers, deadman, and start working on the mortises. And of course the leg vise.

Takes a long, long time when you only put a small handful of hours in on it each week. :rolleyes: But I can't wait to test them out.

Thanks again Jr.

[harry strasil]

FWIW, I noticed Eric polished the top piece up, don't polish the shank or they won't work as well, That's why I use hot rolled round because it has a rough mill scale surface which is what makes them hold like they do.

[Jerome Hanby]

You know, that was the hardest part for me. JR's holdfasts are so nice it was all i could do to keep myself from buffing them all shinny :D


FWIW, I noticed Eric polished the top piece up, don't polish the shank or they won't work as well, That's why I use hot rolled round because it has a rough mill scale surface which is what makes them hold like they do.

[Richard Dooling]

I got mine a couple of days ago and have used them a bit now. I do like these better than the Grammercys though I like them fine also.

I won’t repeat what Don Peterson has already stated (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=1160919&postcount=43)so well and I think his review is right on target.

One thing I like a lot is that these are so springy that you can set them with just hand pressure if you don’t need lots of pressure. Now that’s fast! You still need to whack them with a hammer to release.

I don’t know if Harry is planning on making another run, but at his price these things are a steal!

Thank you si_, uh I mean thanks Harry

.

[Jeff Skory]

FWIW, I noticed Eric polished the top piece up, don't polish the shank or they won't work as well, That's why I use hot rolled round because it has a rough mill scale surface which is what makes them hold like they do.

Thanks for the confirmation on that. I was planning on polishing the top as well and had a sneaking suspicion that I should leave the shank alone.

[Billy Chambless]

I got mine a couple of days ago and have used them a bit now. I do like these better than the Grammercys though I like them fine also.

I won’t repeat what Don Peterson has already stated (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=1160919&postcount=43)so well and I think his review is right on target.

One thing I like a lot is that these are so springy that you can set them with just hand pressure if you don’t need lots of pressure. Now that’s fast! You still need to whack them with a hammer to release.

I don’t know if Harry is planning on making another run, but at his price these things are a steal!

Thank you si_, uh I mean thanks Harry

.

Just picked mine up. After a few quick tests, I agree with everything you just said.

2 1/4" apitong benchtop with 3/4" (well, #12 auger bit) holes.

Compared to the Gramercy holdfasts, they set easier and release easier, and hold at least as well -- maybe better. Give me a week.

I may have to change my "release" technique; I'm used to bopping the back of the holdfast with my wooden mallet, but I think the way the top piece is on these, it'll tear my mallet up. No big deal, but I'm trying to find SOMETHING negative. ;)

Oh, and I don't think I'll polish mine -- the way they are fits the current tasteful decor of my shop much better.

Much thanks, Junior -- I feel more like ya done me a favor than like there was a business deal.

[paul cottingham]

Just got my holdfasts in the mail. Super pleased, they look great, and arrived faster than anything I ever ordered from any "more commercial" vendor. A quick question, my bench was drilled by its previous owner for for shafts much larger than 3/4, so I wonder what the best sized hole for these would be....

[David Gendron]

I use "Gorilla Glue" with great success! And the "HHH's" do work good, I had one bend a little just in front of the stem. since I do have other, I will keep these one for fine work where you don't want to pound hard to hold the small piece!
good work Jr.!

[harry strasil]

They will work in any size hole Paul, just put the shank in a metal vise or just place the end down on something solid and adjust the top piece with a mallet or hammer so that the business end is where you want it to be on the work its holding. they are designed to bend where they meet the shank.

[paul cottingham]

thanks!

Paul

[Joel Goodman]

Harry,

If you make more I would love a set!

Joel

[Eric Brown]

I really like mine. After polishing the tops (mostly to eliminate sharp edges and weld splatter) and adding the leather (personal preference)
the functionality is excellent. Only change I could suggest would be longer shafts for holding thicker work.

Jr., if you are ever up to it, I would order a second set. Even at double the cost.

For those that are lurking and think maybe I'm a little greedy, well sorry. Snooze you lose. I just love quality tools.

Eric

PS: Jr, since you don't like being called sir, then how about I just give you two thumbs up instead? I have the utmost respect for your talents and willingness to share. Hats off to you Harry. Thank you.

[paul cottingham]

Secondary report, they work great in my massive bench-top holes. They hold great and release easily. I use a regular hammer on them rather than a mallet, and they rock. If it wouldn't lead to a divorce, i would happliy order more.

Thanks again, Harry

Paul

[George Israel]

I would be interested in a pair as well.

[harry strasil]

your on the waiting list, George

[Jim Koepke]

I have only used mine a few times so far.

They work great. One whack with a mallet and they are set. I use a scrap block to protect the mallet when removing them, usually also one whack.

I have two sets of dog holes and they work a bit better with the deeper set.

The shallow set is less than 2", iirc.

jim