Stanley Planes

[Matt Brawley]

I am looking to buy some older Stanley planes and wanted to know what ones I should be looking for. I know the Bedrock and Sweetheart are good planes, but are the Bailey planes still a good quality plane?

[Johnny Kleso]

I have a Type Study at my website you can access in my Profile (click on my name) In general you want a Type 10-15 is thought to be the best Stanley ever made.. They have a Key Hole Lever Cao (not a Kindey Shaped Hole) and Patent Dates cast into the Bed..

That said dont buy an old rusted and curdy Type 14-15 (My Favorites) over a Like New Type 16 or even Type 17-19 You dont want a new Stanley Bailey they are no where near the quality of the old ones..

I have bought Like New Types 16s in the original box off eBay for the same price as a Brand New Bailey..

Here are the prices I paid a year or two ago
No7C Type16 $70
No4C Type16 $60 and $65
No3C Type 16 $75

Now let me say at one time I watched eBay> Collectable> Tools listings every day.. You will not find deals like this every week or Month or maybe it might take a year but with in a few months you should find something close, I guess eBay sells 50-100 hand planes every day.. Ask questions of sells and ask for more pictures and bid to win not just to out bid the higest bidder at the time..

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Yes Matt, Baileys are fine. Actually, the Sweethart that you mentioned is just a time period in the manufacture of Bailey's. The identifing sweethart mark is the logo that Stanley used at for that period. It was a pretty prolific period. Bedrocks actually have a bit different design, but it's superiority is still a bit debatable. The Bedrock design allows moving the frog forwards to close the mouth, without removing the blade. On the Bailey line, you remove the blade to loosen the frog screws first, then adjust. Don't know about you, but I set my planes once, and leave then alone, so honestly, this feature is maybe just a marketing gimick.

Don't get me wrong, I like my pile of Bedrocks, but the Baileys are perfectly good planes too.

[Sam Takeuchi]

I think sweetheart era of Stanley planes are overrated. If you want a good user, there is no good reason to reject pre-sweetheart era planes. Even pre-type 10 without frog adjustment screw. It's not difficult to adjust frog without it, I doubt you'd be moving the frog back and forth all that often. It certainly isn't a make or break kind of feature and they aren't any inferior to sweetheart era planes either (is there any discernable quality advantages on these planes to begin with that actually affect users?).

Either way, once you get your planes, you'd want to check few spots to make sure it is capable of doing whatever you are planning to do. If you want to shoot with it, check side(s) are sqare. If it chatters, check frog, blade, mating surfaces for firm and solid contact. If shavings clog up the mouth, take care of the back of the blade and cap iron. If it doesn't shave wood, check the blade is sharp (you'll have to sharpen it yourself anyway).

Lastly, don't pay high price simply because the plane looks nice or 'like-new'. If price is right, then sure! But there's no point paying extra. As long as plane offered is in decent or good shape and not a ball of rust, they are good. Peel your eyes out for any sign of repair or crack or chip.

Like Steve says, Bedrock is...well, it's nice, but I don't know if it's worth the price. Bedrock isn't exactly a large improvement over Bailey style planes. Difference in performance is quite subtle, it's not going to do any magical things, nor is it any more versatile than normal Bailey type(s). If I had the money to buy Bedrock now, I think I'd buy about five type 9 - 11 planes. I'm a sucker for low knob planes. Unless you want to collect or re-sell, if you have money for a Bedrock, I'd say get a LV bevel up/low angle series of planes. Those are versatile and perform vastly better than old Stanley planes (I have them and like them, but I still like old Stanley planes, too. If I had to choose, I'd go with LV BU/LA planes, though).

[Billy Chambless]

I have a Type Study at my website

Not to derail the thread or anything, but I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate that type study. It's been a LOT of help to me in figuring otu what's what!

[Jim Koepke]

I am looking to buy some older Stanley planes and wanted to know what ones I should be looking for. I know the Bedrock and Sweetheart are good planes, but are the Bailey planes still a good quality plane?

Of all the good advice above and including mine below, remember it is only the opinion from those of us offering these thoughts. The final decision can only be made by you.

The Bailey planes made before WW II are the ones with which I am most familiar. My favorites are the type 9. They have good quality though they do not have the frog adjustment screw of the later planes. The type 10 and later get a little premium for this, the Sweet Hart era planes also get a little premium. Why pay more for something that does the same job?

The Bedrock line is also a quality plane, but in my opinion does not deserve the premium charged. The early Bedrocks have the body design of the Bailey plane, which is also something that appeals to me. The early Bedrocks do require removing the blade to adjust the frog. The later Bedrocks have a flat top design to the sides. Some people prefer this. The Lie-Nielsen planes also have this feature.

As far as what to look for, that question can be taken in many ways.

What size planes? Depends on your needs, most people will be able to do just about anything with a jointer, a jack and a smoother. That would be a #7 or #8, a #5 and a #4. My personal opinion is the balance of the #8 is better than the #7. For some, with bigger hands or larger projects, a #5-1/2 and a #4-1/2 would be preferable, and would cost a little more. Those with smaller hands or small projects may prefer a #5-1/4 and a #3. The #5-1/4 is hard to find in good shape as many of them were abused in high school shop classes. The #4 and #5 were the two most commonly sold plane sizes made by Stanley. Almost as common as the dirt that usually covers them.

What type? This refers to the date(s) of manufacture in plane speak. This is really a personal choice. My accumulation of planes goes from type 4 through type 13. The type 4 does not have a lateral adjustment lever. This does not prevent it from being a good user plane. After using it for a while, it does not seem like the lateral adjustment is all that necessary. It is one of those things that is set once and left alone, only needing to be reset when the blade is sharpened. Besides, it was hard to pass on a plane for only $10, even though it was missing some parts.

Type 10 and later have the frog adjustment screw. My brain would be strained trying to remember the last time this was used on any of my planes. It was likely on the #7 when a Hock blade was installed well over a year ago. For the planes that are used with different settings, it is easier just to have multiple planes. There are only a couple of sizes in my fleet of planes that need this, the #4 and #5. One of each is set up for thin shavings and one each is set up for thicker shavings.

What to look for in brand? Stanley/Bailey planes are the most common plane found on the old used plane market. This has the advantage of being able to find parts and information. There are many other quality planes available. Some are very difficult to find, let alone trying to find parts.
Some of the other brands are often sold at lower prices, but you are often on your own if you need advice or parts.

Then don't shun those who would advise you to use wooden body planes. This is a whole different world out side of my area of knowledge.

What to look for on any plane? This is the one that catches many off guard. Often planes can have damage that is not apparent if not inspected closely. There should be no cracks in the sides or especially around the mouth. Check the frog around the lateral lever. Check the lever cap, there should not be chips in the edge. I have a few planes with chips out of the base casting. For me, a small area of missing metal at the toe or heel is not a big deal breaker. Especially on the left side at the toe. This gets filed down to smooth and is actually more comfortable for me.
There should be no stripped threads. If possible, carry a medium size screw driver when shopping for planes. Also a good magnifier and a piece of sandpaper. The sand paper can be used to check some of the rusted areas if need be. Usually, this can be seen without the abrasion. At certain stages, the damage caused by rust may need to be checked. This is where the magnifier can help. Also look closely at the corners of the mouth.
It would be a good idea to learn how to dismantle and reassemble a plane before you go to a yard sale and leave someone with a pile of parts. Also, do not take something apart unless you are ready to buy and have permission from the seller.

One important aspect of what to look for takes time and study. There are many planes out there known as Franken planes. My shop is full of them at my making. Mine are simple changes of parts that match. There are Franken planes made not only from mismatched parts, but parts from different manufactures. Swapping blades is not a big deal. Some chip breakers from brand to brand may also work. Some will not. There have been some planes which have crossed my path that were made from such a mess of mismatched parts as to almost be a macabre joke. I cringed as I laughed putting it back on the shelf.

There really is a good reason or two for not taking all of your planes apart at one time.

At the top of the Neanderthal Haven conference is a thread, Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs it has links to sites like Johnny Kleso's and Patrick Leaches Blood & Gore. There is a lot of knowledge for free. When hunting in the wild for the great plane deal, being armed with knowledge is the best preparation one can have.

Good luck and happy hunting,

jim

[scott spencer]

Lots of good info here Matt, but I'd wouldn't restrict myself to only Stanley Bailey and Bedrock planes unless those are really where your heart is. There are some really good Millers Falls and Record planes that can increase the odds of you getting a gem in your price range.

Record's quality follows a very similar time-line as the Stanleys, and uses the same numbering system. There were still some decent Record planes made in more recent years too, but not all.
recordhandplanes.com (http://www.recordhandplanes.com/) Record-planes.com (http://www.record-planes.com/)

Like other makers, Millers Falls (http://oldtoolheaven.com/bench/bench.htm) has some homeowner/rough carpentry models that I wouldn't bother with, but they also some very good woodworking models. The MF models use a different number system...the top models are: 08 (#3), 09 (#4), 10 (#4-1/2), 11 (#5-1/4), 14 (#5), 18 (#6), 22 (#7), etc.

My favorite Bailey is my 5-1/4 Type 13, but I've also had some nice Type 16 & 17s.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Planes/Type13005.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Planes/planes017.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Planes/leahspics006-2.jpg

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Scott has a great point. Here is a pinup of my latest plane, a Union #2. No idea why I needed it, but it's a great little plane from one of the quality makers.

http://i.ebayimg.com/05/!BTd8f3gBmk~$(KGrHgoOKjkEjlLm(yt(BKIr(rsT1Q~~_35.J PG

There where literally 100's of patented plane makers. Some are duds, like Dunlop, Shelton, Wilko, and even some of the cheap stuff that Stanley made. Most are good planes though, and if you'd like more info on "off brand" planes, I'm sure a list of references could be assembled by commitee. Have fun!

[James Scheffler]

Can the Millers Falls and Record planes generally take the same aftermarket blades as Stanley planes (e.g. Hock, LV)?

Thanks,
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

The MF models use a different number system...the top models are: 08 (#3), 09 (#4), 10 (#4-1/2), 11 (#5-1/4), 14 (#5), 18 (#6), 22 (#7), etc.

Interesting, I have never seen this listing. It looks like MF used the plane's length as the model number.

jim

[scott spencer]

Interesting, I have never seen this listing. It looks like MF used the plane's length as the model number.

jim

I think that's exactly the key to their system Jim....almost seems too logical doesn't it?! :rolleyes: :D

[jerry nazard]

Can the Millers Falls and Record planes generally take the same aftermarket blades as Stanley planes (e.g. Hock, LV)?

Thanks,
Jim

My Millers Falls #10 (4 1/2) took a Hock replacement blade w/ chipbreaker. WOW! Made a noticeable improvement in performance.

[Sam Takeuchi]

They'll take the same blade. As long as they are all Bailey style bench planes, there were little to no difference between manufacturers of the bygone era.