Another Tablesaw Accident - (not me)

[Brian Kent]

One of my staff members talked to me yesterday about his dad the long-time woodworker. Seems he cut his thumb OFF two weeks ago. Couldn't find it to bring to the hospital so he has a nicely covered stub where the thumb used to be. Amazingly, his dad is just taking it in stride and adjusting.

So for the good of the remaining ten-fingered wood-workers, here is some of his experience to learn from and try to avoid his mistakes:

1) HE WAS TIRED and said he knew he should have stopped earlier. "One last cut", he thought.

2) He had already finished the cut and said he had pushed the OFF button but the blade was still spinning. While brushing something off of the table he moved the base of his thumb across the blade.

3) No blade guard.
(I have trouble learning from that particular mistake because any guard I have used is too sloppy and makes me try awkward movements to get the guard to slide correctly over the board. I always use the zero clearance insert and splitter, rarely the pawls, and never the plastic guard).

So I wish him well in his healing and adapting, glad he has a great attitude, and will try to learn from his accident.

Any really good suggestions about blade guards will be appreciated, especially in these, my pre-Saw-Stop days. There are so many ways to get hurt in the shop, I see Saw Stop as thousands of dollars extra to solve just one of the problems, but I guess the table saw is a major danger.

Brian

[Bob Genovesi]

Brian,

Sorry to hear of your dad's injury, I sincerely hope he heals quickly.

Every time an accident happens we play the blame game and Brian I'm not being critical of your situation, this seems to be SOP for everyone in this country. Yor Dad knew he wasn't 100% yet he kept going, that's what got him into trouble.

We know we're clearly at fault yet we look for a panacea, or a cure-all to ensure that we are no longer able to injure ourselves. We want saw blades to drop out of the way or stop in a nanosecond if we get near it. We want impregnable guards that resemble Fort Knox. We want someone else to come up with all the safety devices it takes so we "CAN"T" injure ourselves. Bottom line; it's not happening.

Woodworking tools are dangerous and they don't care. When anyone steps into the shop remember this; Safety is no accident so pay attention!

[Brian Kent]

That's what he (my friend's dad) said - he was tired and should have stopped. My friend told me to use a blade guard, but I am still not too sure about that. When I use my blade guard I can't see as clearly and it just adds a complication in the place I want most control.

In this guy's case maybe a practice of practice of brushing away cut-offs with a push stick instead of a hand would be a good idea.

I don't know how many accident stories I have heard that began with "I knew I should have stopped when I got tired".

[Bob Genovesi]

That's what he (my friend's dad) said - he was tired and should have stopped. My friend told me to use a blade guard, but I am still not too sure about that. When I use my blade guard I can't see as clearly and it just adds a complication in the place I want most control.

In this guy's case maybe a practice of practice of brushing away cut-offs with a push stick instead of a hand would be a good idea.

I don't know how many accident stories I have heard that began with "I knew I should have stopped when I got tired".

Sorry Brian, I thought it was your Dad, I should have reread it.

I don't use a blade guard either, I never have and grew up around power tools without them. I won't lie, I've had a couple and only a couple of close calls but each time it was because I was distracted.

I too use a stick or a pencil to get those little pieces away from the blade so I don't end up nicking myself.

If I installed one of those guards it would be then I would get hurt....

Stay safe Brian...

[Stephen Tashiro]

I have an old book on table saws that shows an industrial grade saw where the guard is on a long arm that suspends it over the blade. It also shows a picture when the normal semicircular guard has been replaced by square sheet of metal, so you can use it when you are cutting a groove in a board. There is no splitter.

I think I'd like that arrangement, but I don't know where such a thing is sold nowadays.

[Billy Reynolds]

This brings up a question. If this accident had happened on a Saw Stop TS would the safety feature functioned being that the switch was in the OFF position and the blade spinning down.

[curtis rosche]

after cutting my own finger off a couple weeks ago on the bandsaw i know how easy it is to screw up and end up in the hospital, and i know that that man is in for some sucky weeks.
question though, if he had a sawstop would it have saved his thumb? i dont know if the sawstop still stops the saw after the power is off but the blade is still moving

[Glen Blanchard]

This brings up a question. If this accident had happened on a Saw Stop TS would the safety feature functioned being that the switch was in the OFF position and the blade spinning down.

The answer is .....yes, the SS would have saved his thumb. The brake function is operational until approx. 1 second AFTER the blade stops spinning.

[Rod Sheridan]

Brian, sorry to hear about the injury, however blade guards do stop your fingers from getting in contact with the blade.

You mentioned that you disliked a particular guard because you cannot see what's happening.

Coming from an industrial background my comment is "who cares, the saw blade is cutting whether you're watching or not" and on many industrial saws you cannot even see the blade.

Generally a saw is set up for an operation, such as ripping, and the fence is adjusted, locked and then there's nothing to worry about seeing, and your eyes should be on the out feed end of the fence anyway.

I know that we all have a built in inclination to watch, however it's not necessary, and if it is, a clear guard such as the Merlin allows that.

I know many people like the Shark guard, however since it cannot be used for non through operations, it's a non starter unless you want to change guards for different operations.

I have an Excalibur overarm guard on a General 650, along with a Merlin splitter in my hobby shop.

The Excalibur can be used for dado, grooving and of course for normal through sawing. In addition it has great dust collection, and is mainly clear plastic which does give visibility.

A home made option for grooving and rebating would be a bridge guard attached to the fence, or saw table with magnets. It could be made out of wood or plastic.

Regards, Rod.

[Bob Genovesi]

Just for reference, here's a link showing someone using a lot of safety gizmo's.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyDPnyeW6oA

While the guard does do a decent job of protecting you from coming in contact with the blade you can't see the cut line clearly.

The Board Buddies are a nice touch but the entire setup seems tailored to boards 6 inches wide or greater. I was also impressed with the way he has to go around the back of the saw to finish the cut. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-shocked031.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[Prashun Patel]

I finally ordered a Sharkguard a week ago. It's just not worth taking the chance.

$3k for a Sawstop is starting to sound pretty cheap....

[Nissim Avrahami]

While the guard does do a decent job of protecting you from coming in contact with the blade you can't see the cut line clearly.

Rod Sheridan put it so nicely so I just quoted him....


You mentioned that you disliked a particular guard because you cannot see what's happening.

Coming from an industrial background my comment is "who cares, the saw blade is cutting whether you're watching or not" and on many industrial saws you cannot even see the blade.

Generally a saw is set up for an operation, such as ripping, and the fence is adjusted, locked and then there's nothing to worry about seeing, and your eyes should be on the out feed end of the fence anyway.

Regards, Rod.

Look at my blade guard - Euro stile - I cannot see the cut line and it doesn't bother me at all...

niki

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/TS%20Short%20fence%20rip/0004.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/TS%20Short%20fence%20rip/0006.jpg


http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/TS%20Short%20fence%20rip/0009.jpg

[Bob Genovesi]

Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
You mentioned that you disliked a particular guard because you cannot see what's happening.

Coming from an industrial background my comment is "who cares, the saw blade is cutting whether you're watching or not" and on many industrial saws you cannot even see the blade.

Generally a saw is set up for an operation, such as ripping, and the fence is adjusted, locked and then there's nothing to worry about seeing, and your eyes should be on the out feed end of the fence anyway.

Regards, Rod.





Look at my blade guard - Euro stile - I cannot see the cut line and it doesn't bother me at all...

niki

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/TS%20Short%20fence%20rip/0004.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/TS%20Short%20fence%20rip/0006.jpg


http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/TS%20Short%20fence%20rip/0009.jpg

Both of you make a valid point, but only when you're finally set up to do a great deal of repetitive cuts like in an industrial or production shop.

I suspect most members on this forum as well as several others find the examples above more the exception rather than the rule. Even if you were to rip 30 board feet of lumber this might take no more than 10 minutes to complete then you'll be breaking down the setup for something different which requires most of us to actually see the blades location clearly.

All the guarding in the world will not protect the user from carelessness and inattention. There is no magic bubble that will protect us so we need to be at 100% when operating power-tools.

[Glen Blanchard]

All the guarding in the world will not protect the user from carelessness and inattention. There is no magic bubble that will protect us so we need to be at 100% when operating power-tools.

True, but I believe that each safety device adds an additional layer of protection that just could make the difference between an insignificant woodworking incident and a tragedy.

[Al Willits]

Brian,

Sorry to hear of your dad's injury, I sincerely hope he heals quickly.

Every time an accident happens we play the blame game and Brian I'm not being critical of your situation, this seems to be SOP for everyone in this country. Yor Dad knew he wasn't 100% yet he kept going, that's what got him into trouble.

We know we're clearly at fault yet we look for a panacea, or a cure-all to ensure that we are no longer able to injure ourselves. We want saw blades to drop out of the way or stop in a nanosecond if we get near it. We want impregnable guards that resemble Fort Knox. We want someone else to come up with all the safety devices it takes so we "CAN"T" injure ourselves. Bottom line; it's not happening.

Woodworking tools are dangerous and they don't care. When anyone steps into the shop remember this; Safety is no accident so pay attention!


Good post Bob, I get tired of replies that say I/we have to have whatever safety device is in vouge at the time, and miss the fact someone made a mistake.

People use woodworking equiptment all the time and rarely if ever, does a mishap happen when people are fully attentive and aware of what they're doing.

Ya it takes time to change out a tool sometimes to make that one cut safe, but its when you don't you have problems. imho

Sorry to hear about the mishap btw.

Al

[Glen Blanchard]

Good post Bob, I get tired of replies that say I/we have to have whatever safety device is in vouge at the time, and miss the fact someone made a mistake.



I guess I just have a different take on this. Never making a (silly, stupid, whatever you want to call it) mistake while working with power tools is one thing and having some safeguards in place to handle them in the event one does make such a mistake is another. I will make mistakes in my life. I have to accept the fact that some of them could happen when using a power tool (though I hope not). I like to think that I have some safeguards in place if that ever happens, and am not depending solely on my ability to never make a mistake.

[jason lambert]

I realise I am stupid sometimes.

I use all resonable safety equipnment.

I am rarley at 100% since I do work as a hobbie after work at night weekends etc. If I only worked when I was 100% that would be after coffee for about a hour, 5 hours a week full time or never part time.

Murphy law mistakes will happen.

The table saw and band saw are really dangress and there are going to be accidents. Hindsight is 2020.

Sorry for your friends dad, it sucks but at least it was only a finger not the wrist or something worse.

[Al Willits]

I guess I just have a different take on this. Never making a (silly, stupid, whatever you want to call it) mistake while working with power tools is one thing and having some safeguards in place to handle them in the event one does make such a mistake is another. I will make mistakes in my life. I have to accept the fact that some of them could happen when using a power tool (though I hope not). I like to think that I have some safeguards in place if that ever happens, and am not depending solely on my ability to never make a mistake.

I didn't say safety devices were bad Glen, but it seems when someone does make a error many times on this forum it seems the cure is to buy a sawstop/whatever, missing the fact that somebody did do something wrong.

Also jason/anybody, I'd rather not work at all then rely strickly on safety devices to make up for my errors, but that's just me.

Al

[Edwin Bennett]

I would like to tell you about an accident that I had with my table saw. I write this with the idea that you will avoid making a similar set of mistakes that I had made.
I was in a hurry and wanted to make one last cut on a small piece of wood. I wasn't using the blade guard nor did I secure the piece to be cut on a sled. Also, I was wearing only my every day shatter proof glasses - not safety glasses. Yes, I was unthinking and had blown caution to the wind, and I paid the price.
The wood tipped into the backside of the blade, and quicker than one could say, "Duck!", the piece of wood crashed into the lens of my shatter proof glasses, popped the lens out of the frame smashing it into my right eye and mangled the frame. The lens did not break.
The worst was the damage done to my eye. That day I had surgery on the eye to relieve pressure built-up from bleeding. Several weeks later, I had another surgery to replace the lens in the eye and to repair a tare in the retina. Recovery was slow. It was 3 yrs since the accident with frequent visits to the eye doctor and optomitrist before I was able to see almost as well as before the accident. Nevertheless, I was left with an iris that is permanently wide open due to torn muscles in the accident and a minor blind spot in the lower right-hand corner of my field of view for the eye.
An optomitrist quickly straightened the bent frame and put the lens back where it belonged. Ordinary eye glasses for daily use are not safety glasses.
:oToday, when I use any tools in my shop, I wear safety goggles and face sheild, use the guard and jig the wood as needed. I hope this tail helps someone avoid making careless errors as I did.

[Jay Radke]

well i had a near miss but not with a TS. i use to work in a xray diffraction lab and was in charge maintaince on the machine. well i got a call that it was down one night and went in to take a look. after a few hours (on top of a full day) i was still at it. i was attempting to align the xray beam and as such need the shutter open and other things out of the way. well i was doing some work when i noticed that the shutter was still open while i had my hand near the beam line. freaked the heck out of me when i saw the shutter open light on. i stopped work, shut down the machine and said i better go home. i thought for sure that i had put my hand in the beam. all night i was making sure that there werent any burning feelings in my hand. the worst is that like a sun burn you dont know right away. even worse is that by the time you do they will have to remove something because all is lost. thankfully i didnt put any part through the beam.

but back to this topic. if tired always stop. two treat cleanin like changing the blade. turn-off, unplug and wait for the blade to stop. a few seconds longer and he would still have his finger...plus he didnt get to sleep any faster after all. reminds me of people that run in front of my commuter train. there is always another train. being late to work is a lot easier to deal with than your family having to come to the morgue to claim you.

[glenn bradley]

A bad accident. Glad he is taking it in stride. I use a guard on any cuts where it won't make it "unsafer" to do so. Like Brian, I use a ZCI (have one for each blade and a few for dado) and I use a splitter whenever possible.

Even thought it seems to take longer than restarting your computer (groan), I never get near the cutter when it is in motion. My router table router is also a slow stopper as is my bandsaw but, I am not so impatient as to pay a digit for the time I might save.

It really creeps me out when I see folks remove spoil from a running machine; especially the ones who think quickly flicking stuff away will do the trick . . . ***shudder***. Call me a wimp, tell me you've never had an issue, I don't care; I'll just keep playing it safe thank you. Hope your friend's dad heals quick.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

I would like to tell you about an accident that I had with my table saw. I write this with the idea that you will avoid making a similar set of mistakes that I had made.
I was in a hurry and wanted to make one last cut on a small piece of wood. I wasn't using the blade guard nor did I secure the piece to be cut on a sled. Also, I was wearing only my every day shatter proof glasses - not safety glasses. Yes, I was unthinking and had blown caution to the wind, and I paid the price.
The wood tipped into the backside of the blade, and quicker than one could say, "Duck!", the piece of wood crashed into the lens of my shatter proof glasses, popped the lens out of the frame smashing it into my right eye and mangled the frame. The lens did not break.
The worst was the damage done to my eye. That day I had surgery on the eye to relieve pressure built-up from bleeding. Several weeks later, I had another surgery to replace the lens in the eye and to repair a tare in the retina. Recovery was slow. It was 3 yrs since the accident with frequent visits to the eye doctor and optomitrist before I was able to see almost as well as before the accident. Nevertheless, I was left with an iris that is permanently wide open due to torn muscles in the accident and a minor blind spot in the lower right-hand corner of my field of view for the eye.
An optomitrist quickly straightened the bent frame and put the lens back where it belonged. Ordinary eye glasses for daily use are not safety glasses.
:oToday, when I use any tools in my shop, I wear safety goggles and face sheild, use the guard and jig the wood as needed. I hope this tail helps someone avoid making careless errors as I did.


Edwin, Thanks for sharing that. I do sometimes forget to wear my safety glasses but I won't anymore with your story. Sorry that happened to you but your sharing will no doubt save some eye injuries. Alan

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Ditto sharing your accident. I had a close call too, a chunk of wood hit my eyebrow. Ever since then I almost always use safety glasses and or faceshield...... Luckily, it didn't hit my eye. I'd have a story like yours.....
I'd like to say ALWAYS wear safety glasses, but every now and then I plain forget...... And consider myself lucky that I did not get hurt when I don't have safety glasses on.

OH, that brings up a small point about something I just recently discovered. It may have been on the market for awhile, but it's new to ME, and I'd like to share with all of the other OLD guys out there. Both BORG and W/C have reading glasses safety glasses. What an awesome idea for the eyesight challenged. I have a pair from both, since the BORG glasses are a tiny bit uncomfortable for me. Works good. Now I don't have to use a faceshield and reading glasses, or switch between safety and reading glasses. Check them out! :)

Now if they have reading/safety glasses/LED flashlight combo that would be in my shop tomorrow! Can't see without light too.