Best portable drill driver??

[Jerry Olexa]

Been using my old PC 12 volt drill now for over 10 years (one of batteries now failing) along with 3 wired drills which I generally prefer and a heavy duty Milwaukee also wired. Facing some new projects, interior remodeling, building cabinets etc and thinking it's time to upgrade.:)
Which, in your opinion, are the best portable drill drivers out there? I'm thinking 18V Lithium (am I on right track?). I'd like light weight, ease of battery change, fast charge and of course, lasting power/torque.My old PC 12 V got heavy after prolonged use and battery change was an effort...
I'm told Makita. Milwaukee, Bosch have good dependable units...Do not need an impact feature. Would love to hear your experienced recos and ideas....Thanks, guys. :confused::confused: Jerry

[Bob Genovesi]

Jerry, this reply isn't any help because I'm right were you are and I'd like to see some comments from this group too!

Come on guys, lets get to typing!!

[Eric DeSilva]

I've had my Makita 18V LXT Lion for about 3-4 years, and I've been very happy with it. Mine was a kit, so I did end up with the impact driver. I was kind of shocked at how useful the impact driver is, so I wouldn't write it off. Back to the drill--its got plenty of power for everything I've done with it, holds a charge well, and I haven't detected any issues with repeated charging of the Lion. I would definitely buy again.

Having said all that, most of the time in the shop, when I need to put a screw in I'm actually reaching for my little 10.8V bosch driver. Lighter, easier, smaller, gets into more awkward places... Just another thought to consider.

[Frank Trinkle]

+1 on the Makita set. I love mine!

[Dave Verstraete]

I have the Milwaukee 18V lithium. Works great!!

[Eiji Fuller]

The panasonics 15.6 and the festool C12 are the best drivers out there. If you want a versatile driver that can put a hole or drive a screw nearly anywhere the C12 is the one to get.

My go to drills were a panasonic 15.6 and a makita impact driver for years until they were stolen out of the back of my truck.

I picked up a 18v Lion Makita Drill/impact set and love the impact and only use the drill for drilling larger holes or pocket holes. Since I was not liking the Makita drill, I got a C12. That is the best small drill driver I have ever used. I just love it. The accessory chucks are amazing. the C12 batteries are 1.3 amp hr nicads and charge up in 20 mins. For a 12v drill it is amazing the power it has.

[Scott T Smith]

The panasonics 15.6 and the festool C12 are the best drivers out there. If you want a versatile driver that can put a hole or drive a screw nearly anywhere the C12 is the one to get.

Since I was not liking the Makita drill, I got a C12. That is the best small drill driver I have ever used. I just love it. The accessory chucks are amazing. the C12 batteries are 1.3 amp hr nicads and charge up in 20 mins. For a 12v drill it is amazing the power it has.


+1 on the Festool C12. Get the kit with the accessories - you will not regret it. The clutch is great, as is the weight and balance.

I also have a Milwaukee 28V LI that has seen heavy construction use, but the C12 is simply a joy to use.

[Tom Cross]

Panasonic 15.6 scores tops in nearly every tool test. I have one and it is marvelous.

[Pete Janke]

I have the 18V Makita combo kit, 1.5KW 1/2" Drill/Driver and Impact Driver. Paid $200 for the set awhile ago during an Amazon Sale. I really like the Impact and use it for most projects. You can find it here for comparison: Makita (http://tinyurl.com/krvgh3). Works great. Light weight. Charges quickly. The only thing I might do differently is get the more expensive 3KW batteries as the Impact will run out of juice quicker when working it hard driving lags and lots of screws.

[Cary Falk]

I have a 14.4V NiMH Makita kit with a impact driver and light. I love it. I had a 12V Proter Cable before that.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Another 14.4 V. Makita......I have had it for 6 or 7 years. It just keeps chugging along.

[michael osadchuk]

I have the 18V Makita combo kit, 1.5KW 1/2" Drill/Driver and Impact Driver. Paid $200 for the set awhile ago during an Amazon Sale. I really like the Impact and use it for most projects. You can find it here for comparison: Makita (http://tinyurl.com/krvgh3). Works great. Light weight. Charges quickly. The only thing I might do differently is get the more expensive 3KW batteries as the Impact will run out of juice quicker when working it hard driving lags and lots of screws.

I bought this combo after reading reviews in www.toolsofthetrade.com and followup reading of end user comments on amazon.com; paid $230 Cdn. for a reconditioned/like new pair; advantages are Makita quality, ultra compact/light weight, esp. w/ 1.5amp batteries, LED task lighting that stays on for 10 or so seconds after releasing the trigger; off putting are no onboard carrying place for bits and no included belt clip although the anchoring insert is built in, and, oh yeah, the star wars graphics (smiley)

good luck

michael

[bill mullin]

Panasonic 15.6. Best I've owned.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I killed one of my trusty old Dewalts this winter, so I went through the same process recently. I almost bought the Festool, but I needed one now, so I bought a 18 volt Bosch litium with the slimline batteries. Nice little drill. Same power as the old Dewalt monster, but way less weight.

Built a fence with it this afternoon. 300 plus, 3" screws didn't finish a battery. The first charge lasted until I got well into the #10 hardware screws. It has a great charger too, fan cooled, will do a charge in 30 min.

I'm quite surprised, and impressed by it. I still may get the Festool, but not because I need to replace the Bosch.

[Bill Fleming]

I really like Festool and was getting ready to replace a great old Porter Cable (made by Metabo) with a Festool T-15 +3 how does this compare with the C-12? I like the format of the C-12 but my old Porter Cable has really carried the load for 24 years!

[Bill Huber]

I guess my question is just what all will you be doing with that you really need 18v. ?

The new smaller stuff is really something and they are small and have 30 min. chargers.

I have a Milwaukee M12 and I use it more now then I use my larger 14.4 Dewalt. It has a 1/4 snap in type chuck but I have a standard chuck I can put on it, I don't use the standard chuck that much.

It has a lot of Torque, not as much as an 18v. but then again how much Torque do you need.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello Jerry,

Best? I can't narrow it down to a single "best".
I can give you an outline of the ones I have though.

18V Firestorm.
& no I'm not trying to be funny.
100inch pounds of torque is equal to both of my DeWalt 18 V units.
Batteries are half the cost of the Dewalts.
Even cheaper if/when you run across a sale ona B&D 18V drill.
Which BTW, isn't a half bad drill in it's own right. IIRC, I have two that I bought just for the batteries they came with for something like $29.00 each. NiCad, but, I have a ton of batteries and a few charges, so I'm nevr at a loss for a charged one.
Best feature is by far the removable chuck that allows a driver bit to be inserted under the chuck. It's the perfect system for chores like puttin in mini blinds. Mark the hole, drill, pop off the chuck and drive the screw - pop the chack back on and do the other side - w/out any fuss when you're on a step ladder.
Mine took a fall from a step ladder & cracked the frame. It's still useable though.

DeWalt 18V NiCad.
100 inch pounds.
I have two. One I bought for the battery & charger since it was priced cheaper than a twin pack of batteries alone. Not all that light & not LiIon, but all DeWalts can use LiIon batteries. Just get a new charger. The 18V DeWalt is a workhorse. I don't have any idea how many 3" screws you can drive on a full charge. I've read it's 300 plus.
I've always run out of steam before the battery has w/mine.
FWIW - the DeWalts don't go "up high" - ie: on a ladder or a step ladder.
@ > $99.00, I'd rather see a cheap B&D drop and hit the ground.

DeWalt 7.2V screwdriver.
79 inch pounds.
Again, another workhorse. Well worth the $79.00 they go for. It will drive a 4" 1/4" lag screw into pine. Actually, quite a few of them. You don't want to though. W/the reticulating body, the 79 innch pounds are enough to damage it if you push it too hard too often.
Came w/two batteries and a charger. It needs two batteries. I find almost each time I reach for it, the battery in it is low.

Ryobi 3.6V - Also sold under a Craftsman lable.
Between 35 and 50 inch pounds - depending on the charge level.
Excellent value for the $10.00 I paid for it on sale @ HD.
Horrible value for any more. Very light duty only as the reticulating body is weak. Battery life is short & since the battery is built in, so is the life of the tool.
Handiest feature is the built in light.

B&D 3.6V cordless screwdriver. ($15.00 on sale from Ace)
30 inch pounds.
Built in battery. Lock feature for the chuck is handy for driving a fastener in, then switching it to lock for the last turn or two. Funky angled grip gives you a little more leverage than a straight one.

B&D 4 AAA batteries.
Low torque. ~ 10 inch pounds or so.
Extremely handy though even when the batteries are low &/or dead. Straight grip is good for situations where over torque may be a concern. Almost impossible to cross thread something with it. Perfect screwdriver for things like installing doorknobs where a lot of turning is invloved & too much torque will booger up the heads/possibly cross thread.
Mine now has a permanent home next to the table saw for taking out/putting back in the throat plate screw. That's one screw I really dread the prospect of cross threading. W/the locking feature & "fat" body, it works well even when the batteries are low or dead.

Dremel 7.2V LiIon screwdriver
Picked it up only because it was on closeout at Lowes and marked down incorrectly @ $29.00. They had several of them @ that price. Next time I went in, they'd priced them up to $49.00. Still a decent value IMHO.
@ 7.2 V it has the same torque as the 7.2V DeWalt. Small pistol grip style fits into tight places. Hex chuck takes hex drill bits.
--><-- this close to being a good replacement for the Firestorm for mini blinds. It would be the perfect small drill/driver if it had a low and high speed.
It always seems to have a charge no matter how long it's been out of the charger or how long I use it.
One small caution though. The small size is deceptive. It's very easy to booger up a screwhead w/the torque the 7.2 V makes & it's all to east to strip out small screws like #4's under an inch long.
It's a very good driver for 2 1/2" or 2" #8's. I use it a lot for those if the 7.2 V DeWalt isn't handy.
It's also my "go high" tool due to it's small size/abilty to take a drill bit & driver bit.

[Harry Goodwin]

My son a locksmith and I both have the set of Makita 18 volt drill and driver with the 3 batteries we both love them. Harry

[Zach England]

I like my 36V Bosch--far more powerful than any other I have owned and the LI batteries last forever. However, it is heavy and not very compact. I usually use it for drilling holes and my 18v Hitachi for screwing, but I don't recommend the Hitachi--it's kind of a tinker toy.

[Prashun Patel]

Jerry,
I vote Makita 18v compact LiIon, since you say you want it light.
Only downside: 1.5Ah batts. 15 min charge, though.

[Vic Damone]

IMO, any cordless tool is only as good as the battery and its charging system. I bought a Hilti NiCad drill going on five years ago and the batteries work as good today as they did when new. When I read a comment regarding the price of replacement batteries I'm reminded of the DeWalt, Makita, and Black / Decker tools who's batteries all failed me.

I have since purchased their driver. As it's the only driver I've owned I can't comment on its comparative performance to other brands but I'm confident that I won't need replacement batteries.

[Sean Nagle]

I've been satisfied with my Makita 18V Li-ion. I used to own two DeWalt 12V NiCad drivers. I actually preferred the control of the DeWalts over the Makita.

I know you can use the new DeWalt Li-ion batteries with their 18V drivers, does anyone know whether the Li-ion batteries work with their 12V and 14V drivers?

[Grant Vanbokklen]

right now I'd say get this: http://www.amazon.com/Makita-BTD141-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B0019OZ3HQ

with this: http://www.makita.com/en-us/Modules/Promotions/Default.aspx

[Jerry Olexa]

Thanks guys...Good info, recos already...Since handling, lightness is an issue, I'll try to get out the next few days and feel/touch some of the drills as part of process. Sounds like milwaukee, makita, festool etc rank well but I'm seeing many of you have loyalties to your personal favorite drills. Good, helpful advice. I'm learning...Thanks. I'll continue to check this thread..

[James Carmichael]

I'll have to go with Bill. Of course, drilling/driving dozens of pocket hole screws with an 18v or bigger tool will build up those forearms . In fairness, though, 18v Li batteries will weigh less.

I would definitely target a Drill-driver/Impact driver combo. The 10.8s look very interesting. The impact drivers in that voltage give around 800-inch lbs of torque, more than the baddest 18v drill driver, and without twisting your wrist. If you anticipate fence-building or anything that may call more than a few lag screws, you may want more voltage.

[Kerry Wright]

My 18v dewalt has always been my go to, however I got a dremel 7.2v for xmas and it's amazing the amount of power and longevity this little thing has. To give you an idea, I just put up a 30 foot section of privacy fence (frame and pickets) and decided to see what it would do. This little sucker lasted almost the entire build. I have to agree with Rich on his summary of it. If it had a replaceable battery pack it would be perfect, but for what it's intended for it works great!

[Damion Bevacqua]

I'm going to jump in and recommend the new Bosch 18v lithiums ("litheon" or whatever they call it).

I just bought the 4-piece set and I love it. It came with the hammer drill, 6.5" circular saw, recip. saw, and flashlight. Plus they have a rebate running right now - I sent in my receipt and they sent me the 18v impact driver. I think the whole set was $400.

The batteries hold a good charge, and the drill has a lot of power. Much, much lighter than the Craftsman 18v "Industrial" drill I've had forever (actually was a nice drill - but absurdly heavy).

My go-to drill for the past 10+ years has been a Dewalt 12v - which was a very nice driver that had decent power for the size.

This new Bosch stuff is fantastic, though. I originally wanted to pick up the 12v Bosch combo pack that lowes is selling for $179, but I needed the bigger drills... now I don't see a need or reason to buy the 12vs.

[Jerry Olexa]

Many votes for the Makita 18v lithium but in checking tools of trade website and their review, the MAKITA is in the last/lowest rated category.
Several friends here also reco'd the Makita...What's up?? I realize Milwaukee, Bosch, Festool, etc are in the ballpark too..Hmmmmm.:confused: Plan to get in tool stores later today..

[phil harold]

Many votes for the Makita 18v lithium but in checking tools of trade website and their review, the MAKITA is in the last/lowest rated category.
Several friends here also reco'd the Makita...What's up?? I realize Milwaukee, Bosch, Festool, etc are in the ballpark too..Hmmmmm.:confused: Plan to get in tool stores later today..

My nephew has the makita 18v lithium he was shocked by how long my old 18v nimh makita batteries last compared to his
but then he complained they are heavy

[Prashun Patel]

The Compact LiIon Makita is a good HOBBYIST/HOMEOWNER driver. If I were building decks or houses, I'd get something beefier. I think it's a good value.

[Dave Lehnert]

I will go against the grain. I am a fan of the Ryobi drills. I have used my set (14.4 volt) for 6 or 7 years now. We have an 18 volt Ryobi at work (Retail environment) and it has lasted the same amount of years with no problems.

[matt swiderski]

I have the dewalt 18V drill and impact. Got the drill as a set and then got the impact so i that I didn't have 2 different batteries, never looked at a different brand or size of battery. I would really give the impact driver another look. Now that I have one, whenever I go to drive a screw I am always going with the impact. When using the impact it starts out like a regular drill, but the impact part will kick in when it senses that it needs more torque. The only draw back I have with it is that it only takes hex bits, but i think you can get an adapter so that it will take regular bits. Hope this helps.
Matt

[whit richardson]

I bought the Bosch 10.8V Cordless Litheon™ Impactor Fastening Drive 1 yr ago and love it. How good a tool is can be measured by how much it's used. Anytime I have brought this tool to a shared project or a work day in the data center it's always in somebodys hand and somebody is always looking to borrow it while the heavier drills lay on the floor. I'm not saying it has to be Bosch but the smaller grip and Litheon batteries make it very popular. Guys ususally ask me how much I paid for it after using it a few times. The drill/driver version is as nice and the impact driver without the limits if the impact action (no drilling). I have smaller hands and the lighter, smaller grip is great. I think any top brand in this style would be a good choice. I'll probably add the drill/driver to the kit.

[Tom Hargrove]

There are two grades of Makita 18v Lithium tools. The "compact" model numbers begin with "LCT," have smaller batteries (1.5 ah?), and are lighter duty. They are cheaper, and are the ones generally found at homecenters. The marketing focus is on lighter duty and homeowners.

The heavier duty version has model numbers that begin with "LXT." They have bigger batteries (3.0 ah?) and cost more money. I have never seen them at a big box retailer. They cost more money, but are designed for trade usage. I used a friend's LXT drill and driver when we worked on a large deck project last spring. All I can say is "wow."

From what I have seen, the LCT tools generally receive poorer reviews than the LXT. The Makita customer service person told me the heavier duty batteries will not fit in the LCT tools.

I see you live in northern Illinois. If you have a Berland's near you, they have all the tools mentioned in this thread on display. Most of them have charged batteries in the display models, so you can touch and listen to all of them before you buy.

[James Carmichael]

This is starting to resemble a "best sharpening method" thread.

Personally, I''m unimpressed with cordless tools. For anything more than incidental drilling or driving, I'll pull out a tailed drill. If building a deck or fence, I'd run extension cords and probably and have a cordless or two sitting around for incidental work, but a tailed tool would do the heavy lifting.

Impact drivers are fairly awesome for their ability to drive the heaviest lag screws. That's the one cordless tool I would not be without.

Cordless saws are a waste of money, IMO. My DW recip is OK for the occaisional nail cutoff, but that's about it. I find the flashlights that come with cordless kits more useful than a cordless circular saw, quite handy for camping and power outages.

[whit richardson]

[QUOTE=James Carmichael;1157439]This is starting to resemble a "best sharpening method" thread.

Personally, I''m unimpressed with cordless tools. For anything more than incidental drilling or driving, I'll pull out a tailed drill. If building a deck or fence, I'd run extension cords and probably and have a cordless or two sitting around for incidental work, but a tailed tool would do the heavy lifting.

Impact drivers are fairly awesome for their ability to drive the heaviest lag screws. That's the one cordless tool I would not be without.

/QUOTE]

I'd have to agree when it comes to professional work or big projects. I use corded makita when handling a lot of drilling and driving. That said there is one cordless tool maker for commercial construction that could change your mind.. Hilti Tools. My older son worked commercial construction for a few years and used their tools. Battery life was unreal, plus power, plus the Hilti tools outlasted every "commercial" grade tool makers tools by years. But they are not cheap and you don't find them at your local hardware or home store.

[michael osadchuk]

Many votes for the Makita 18v lithium but in checking tools of trade website and their review, the MAKITA is in the last/lowest rated category.
Several friends here also reco'd the Makita...What's up?? I realize Milwaukee, Bosch, Festool, etc are in the ballpark too..Hmmmmm.:confused: Plan to get in tool stores later today..

Jerry,

...the makita 18v./1.5amp combo kit that I bought and am well satisfied with is the BDF 452 driver drill and the BTD 142 impact driver......

toolsofthetrade recently did a review of 18v impact drivers and the above makita impact driver was top rated; see here

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/industry-news.asp?sectionID=1490&articleID=705143&artnum=3

that same website did not not review the makita driver drill and for comments on this item I used amazon.com end user reviews.......

good luck

michael

[Mitch Barker]

I've been looking at 12V Li drills from Bosch and Ridgid. I think a 12V Li will have plenty of power (~200 in-lbs IIRC). The Ridgid has a lifetime replacement policy on its batteries which puts it ahead. A Milwaukee rep told me they are coming out with a similar model. (Their 12V model doesn't have a chuck).

Mitch

[Bill Huber]

I've been looking at 12V Li drills from Bosch and Ridgid. I think a 12V Li will have plenty of power (~200 in-lbs IIRC). The Ridgid has a lifetime replacement policy on its batteries which puts it ahead. A Milwaukee rep told me they are coming out with a similar model. (Their 12V model doesn't have a chuck).

Mitch

I have the Milwaukee and one thing I really like about it is the chuck. You can just pull it out and drop the driver and put another one in without using 2 hands. The Bosch I had, you had to use 2 hands to get the bit out.

I have a Ridgid at work and it the chuck does add a lot of weight to the unit.

I guess if you are doing more drilling then driving the chuck is better. But for a driver the Milwaukee is really great.

[Peter Gregory]

A couple of years ago, it was surely Panasonic, a few years before that someone else, before that someone else. I see DeWalt has Lithium cells that fit my old 18V stuff. The choices are many, good, expensive and changing. Good luck.

[Jerry Olexa]

Wow..You all have educated me. I will jump in the water and upgrade to the current state of the art., I was able to actually use a Makita 18V Lith in wood with different fasteners @ the local Borg. Wow, the power/torque is impressive compared to my old 12V PC (of course, when the PC was new at that time, I was impressed by its torque). Tools are evolving and constantly improving...Thanks for your help in this. I won't start my project for several weeks so now I am informed and will try to find a competitive deal in that time. Thanks again...

[Mike Rees]

These videos, albeit tilted in DeWalts light, DO show a lot of the differances between the manufacturer's drill technologies.

I think there is a reason that DeWALT warrants their drills for 3 years and 2 years on the batteries.

http://www.dewalt.com/dwassets/english/flash/realstories/index.htm

I just picked up the 14.4 DCD920KX XRP drill/driver. When these Nicads go, I will replace them w/ DeWalt's 14.4 Lithium Ion batteries. The drill should last a long long time.

FWIW.

[Jim Finn]

I like to look at what the pro's use in the way of tools. I am a retired sheetmetal worker and we used drill drivers all day long, every day. Running screws into metal and 3/8" x 4" lags into wooden beams. Also used them to tighten nuts and bolts a LOT. All of us used Makita impact drivers and abuse them badly.( the boss buys them) They are so strong I have broken a 3/8" bolt with them more than once. Mine is old and is a 9.6V Nicad and it is still going strong after 9 years. Same batteries too. So Makita gets my vote.

[Mike Rees]

These videos, albeit tilted in DeWalts light, DO show a lot of the differances between the manufacturer's drill technologies.

I think there is a reason that DeWALT warrants their drills for 3 years and 2 years on the batteries.

http://www.dewalt.com/dwassets/english/flash/realstories/index.htm

I just picked up the 14.4 DCD920KX XRP drill/driver. When these Nicads go, I will replace them w/ DeWalt's 14.4 Lithium Ion batteries. The drill should last a long long time.

FWIW.

Scratch that, went with the DeWALT DCD960KL. 18V Nano Lithium. Now that I'm on the 18V bandwagon, I need to see what else I can plug those puppies into ....

[Paul Simmel]

Look at your history channel or any of the other shows that run through the Great Factories type specials. I've been not surprised that on many of these shows they clearly depict assembly men using the Makita 18 volt XLT drivers on multiple assembly lines.

My Dewalt 18V driver is heavy and old ( though after all these years it still works fine... the issue is with the batteries! 3 of them have died ($70.00 a pop).

Now I only use the last (good/new) battery for the $400 laser.

Makita 18v Ion ALL THE WAY. Drill and driver... all the way.

I'll sell the lazor when I'm done with it on about a year. Will sell the old Dewalt drill too. NO WAY I'm spending $120 for an ION Dewalt.

Dewalt severed me well for many years... time are a changing...

[Bob Carreiro]

Started with a 12V Ryobi - liked it because it was my first.

Went to 18V PC. This was a GREAT, non-stop drill with big power. Batteries died, bought two more @ $79 ea, then charger died and was NOT about to spent $100 more.

Bought a 18V Kawasoki (spell?) from Costco. This was (is) a piece of junk and a waste of the 45 bucks I spent for it (unless you install light switch plates for a living)!

After reading a few tool testing articles on drills, spent $179 for the 18V Bosch Lithion (spell?). This is a compact, well-balanced, light weight, never-die tool. Batteries are half the ht/wt of older types and has gobbs of torque (500#) to drive 3" galv deck screws w/o pilot holes endlessly (switching batteries to/from the charger). This is a killer drill and clearly my best yet. I've found the tiny light that eluminates when the trigger is pulled a handy option in dimly lit areas. Love it. Love it. Love it.

[Roger Pozzi]

Hello Jerry,

18V Firestorm.
& no I'm not trying to be funny.
100inch pounds of torque is equal to both of my DeWalt 18 V units.
Batteries are half the cost of the Dewalts.
Even cheaper if/when you run across a sale ona B&D 18V drill.
Which BTW, isn't a half bad drill in it's own right. IIRC, I have two that I bought just for the batteries they came with for something like $29.00 each. NiCad, but, I have a ton of batteries and a few charges, so I'm nevr at a loss for a charged one.
Best feature is by far the removable chuck that allows a driver bit to be inserted under the chuck. It's the perfect system for chores like puttin in mini blinds. Mark the hole, drill, pop off the chuck and drive the screw - pop the chack back on and do the other side - w/out any fuss when you're on a step ladder.

That, I have to agree with, but, as an added bonus, at least to me, with no bit in place under the chuck, you can vary the depth of your bit and use the chuck as a depth stop. :D That is probably the most used feature by me.

[Mike Rees]

Look at your history channel or any of the other shows that run through the Great Factories type specials. I've been not surprised that on many of these shows they clearly depict assembly men using the Makita 18 volt XLT drivers on multiple assembly lines.

My Dewalt 18V driver is heavy and old ( though after all these years it still works fine... the issue is with the batteries! 3 of them have died ($70.00 a pop).

Now I only use the last (good/new) battery for the $400 laser.

Makita 18v Ion ALL THE WAY. Drill and driver... all the way.

I'll sell the lazor when I'm done with it on about a year. Will sell the old Dewalt drill too. NO WAY I'm spending $120 for an ION Dewalt.

Dewalt severed me well for many years... time are a changing...

DeWALT has certainly lightened their tools up over the years, but the XRP Nicads are still very heavy animals. DeWALT took awhile getting on the Lithium wagon because they are using a specific Lithium chemstry that orignated out of M.I.T called Nano Phosphate. They are far more stout than standard lithium batteries. This site does a great job breaking down battery technology:

http://forum.drc.su/cordless-power-tool-batteries-nicd-vs-nimh-vs-liion-vt4187.html (http://forum.drc.su/cordless-power-tool-batteries-nicd-vs-nimh-vs-liion-vt4187.html)

I know its a Chevy/Ford debate and no tool is perfect for everybody, but for my dollars I find a lot of value and thought in DeWALT.

[kenneth kayser]

The Metabo with pulsation is a very nice tool. the pulse works well for starting holes. You can even start a hole in sheet steel without punching. Pulse is also useful for backing stubborn screws.

I also have a Ridgid. Nice grip and balance, came with a lifetime guarantee on everything including batteries. Probably not the best choice for daily, heavy use. Among the professional brands, the one which feels best in your hand is probably the best choice. If battery life is important, I read a report where the Panasonic outlasted the others by a wide margin.

[Gerry Werth]

Another vote for the Makita 18V LiIon. Watch the upcoming Christmas sales at Lowes/HD. Last year I got the kit...Drill/impact driver/charger/bag for 189.00. They are powerful, light weight, 15 min charger. One thing about the impact driver...it has over 3X the torque of the drill driver....one must be careful driving screws with this thing. You can spin the head off a screw in a heartbeat. But for driving long or large screws, it's a dream. the Festool is a wonderful unit as well, but dig deep into your wallet.

[Mike Rees]

Most people don't know this, but DeWALT has a compact driver that is lithium based. Same Nano battery tech. Its the DCD760KL. Very light weight, battery is a feather, lithium, etc. Just hit store shelves in October. Its a little more expensive then the Makita, but the brushes are heavier/bigger, the magnet is bigger/more dense, and the plastic is Xenoy (more flex when dropped). 3 year warranty on the tool, 2 years on the batteries.

[Greg Portland]

I've had my Makita 18V LXT Lion for about 3-4 yearsUmmm, didn't those come out in the middle of 2008?

I've had the Panasonic LiOn drill and impact driver since they came out and have zero complaints. The Festool drills & chuck systems are very nice as well.

[Eric Roberge]

I didn't see anyone else suggest this so....I'm going against the grain too. Ridgid.

My Ridgid drill has held up to everything that I've thrown at it (4 years now) Both in shop and outside jobs, plus they have a lifetime warranty (even on the batteries). Might be over by now, but last I knew the BORG was offering a 15% off deal if you traded in your (working or not) old drill and upgraded to a Lith-Ion.

My old 14.4V PC lasted for 12 years on the same set of batteries, but I would not buy another PC drill now that they look and feel like Black and Decker...cheap...

Good luck!:)

E-

[Jerry Olexa]

Good thread...Getting by with my PC 12V and 3 other drills plus a cheapie oldportable 18V. Lingering question still is: What's advantage of lithium over nickel-cads? I' want to confirm my thinking as I pursue the Bl Friday deals....Thanks..

[Prashun Patel]

Lightness. You get more power and longevity in a LiIon than a comparably sized NiCad. An 18v LiIon will be about as light/compact as a 12v NiCad. So, for the size, you get more torque and better bat life.

[Mike Rees]

I can't speak to Makita or some of the other Lithium formuations (you read that right, just b/c it says Lithium does not mean the formula is the same), but for DeWALT they are using Nano Phosphate Lithium Ions.

Nano specific features:
The XRP Nano battery will take 2000 recharge cycles vs 500-1000 for other formulations
Suppsedily has a 72 month shelf life vs 24-36 months for other formulations.
Will not explode if charging goes awry vs. other formulations

Features common to Nanos and lithium in general:
will not have the power fade that nicads exhibit.
will only lose about 5% of their charge per month if stored. You can charge them whenever you want w/o memory effect. I think that's great, you can use the tool, step away for lunch and slap it in the charger without worrying about deep discharging the battery for fear of memory.

If you can afford the cost, Lithium is the way to go. I'm partial to the Nano's personally, but for those already invested in another's product lithium is still a upgrade no matter how you cut it.

[Jerry Olexa]

Lightness. You get more power and longevity in a LiIon than a comparably sized NiCad. An 18v LiIon will be about as light/compact as a 12v NiCad. So, for the size, you get more torque and better bat life.

Thanks Shawn.....You've confirmed what I thought..Good info

[Ed Griner]

Panasonic is the best! The best batteries,longest ah rating,Etc.I've tried the rest(you know which ones)and the only trades members who don't use panasonic,is because they have never owned one.You can get them at amazon,at a very reasonable price. Top notch equipment,from a top notch company. I've been the trades since "73" and have used cordless tools since they became available.(a long time) Ed

[Scot Ferraro]

My vote goes to the new Hilti lithium drills. I just bought a 14.4 and love this thing -- the torque is amazing at over 600 in lbs. and this is more than many 18 volts out there and it has similar size and weight -- feels solid. From a cost standpoint they are not all that much more than some of the other 18 volts out there. You not only get a quality tool, but free repairs, even on wear and tear items, for 2 years and then it is 30% max cost for all other years -- meaning at most you have to pay is 30% of the cost of a new tool for the repair, and this includes batteries and anything else that might go wrong.

Scot

[John Harden]

I have the Festool 15+3 and would not recommend it. Light weight, very powerful, tons of features, but the deal killer for me is their proprietary snap in driver system. Standard snap in drill bits, countersinks, and driver heads won't work well (or at all) with their system. Tried to use the angle attachment the other day, and no go as I don't have any of their drill bits. Wound up using my Panasonic cordless with a 12" extension. I should have done my homework before buying it. Oh well.

My favorite by far is a Bosch Impact driver. Mine is an older, NiMh model, but it has tons of torque and the batteries last forever on the thing. The newer models with Lithium Ion batteries must be cordless drill Nirvana.

If I could do it again, I'd save the $600 I spent on the Festool and get a Bosch and still have $300+ left over for wood. Now that I think about it, I think I'll offload the Festool and do exactly that!!!

Regards,

John

[Greg Mann]

I have the Festool 15+3 and would not recommend it. Light weight, very powerful, tons of features, but the deal killer for me is their proprietary snap in driver system. Standard snap in drill bits, countersinks, and driver heads won't work well (or at all) with their system. Tried to use the angle attachment the other day, and no go as I don't have any of their drill bits. Wound up using my Panasonic cordless with a 12" extension. I should have done my homework before buying it. Oh well.

My favorite by far is a Bosch Impact driver. Mine is an older, NiMh model, but it has tons of torque and the batteries last forever on the thing. The newer models with Lithium Ion batteries must be cordless drill Nirvana.

If I could do it again, I'd save the $600 I spent on the Festool and get a Bosch and still have $300+ left over for wood. Now that I think about it, I think I'll offload the Festool and do exactly that!!!

Regards,

John

Your post is full of misinformation. It certainly is possible to use 1/4 hex bits in the Festool system while still being able to use their proprietary system when it makes sense.
True, the Apex style drivers do not fit, but they do not fit any other drill mentioned so far either. They do fit impact drivers or you can just chuck them up in the keyless. Tell me what is different with other drills regarding this? The Festool proprietary system is an improvement over the Apex system while not excluding the use of the short hex bits within the system. Best of both worlds.

Also, the right angle attachment allows you to use their keyless chuck, thereby allowing any drill bit that could be used in a normal position. Additionally, you can still use their proprietary system in the right angle mount if you want to get into even tighter corners.

[Gerry Werth]

Just saw at Lowes the bosch 12V LiIon Pocket drivers twin pack combo sale for 149.00. If you want light weight and some power, look at these. they are on my christmas list...for when I don't want to heft the Makitas around.

[Curt Harms]

I've had a P-C 12 volt for 10 years or so. Had the batteries rebuilt by battery rebuilders in 2006. The batteries are still fine. I got in on the Bosch buy one (PS40 impact driver) and get one free (PS20 dril/driver). The impact driver is wonderful for furniture-type work, driving 1"-2" screws. Was in Lowes buying something insignificant and saw their display for the Bosch 18 volt LiIon combo. To rip off an older commercial, it spoke to me. It said "Buy Me!!!". So I did:D. $199 for drill & driver. Brought 'em home and charged up a battery. Tried the drill, chucked a 1/2" twist drill in the drill and got a chunk of pine 2X4. Yup, that works. Put a phillips bit in the impact driver and got a 2" dry wall screw. HOLY CATS!!! Thing made that screw DISAPPEAR!!. It'd take me some practice with the impact driver if I were trying to finesse a smaller screw. I haven't tried a lag yet but I suspect large screws & largs are the proper use for 18 volt impact drivers. As I use the 18 volt impact driver I may have more confidence in my finesse with it. I did see where Makita has a 3 speed 18 volt impact driver with variable speed within each range. I think I see the logic behind 3 speed transmissions in impact drivers now.

There's an embarrasment of riches out there in cordless tools today. Any of the top tier manufacturers offer a product far ahead of those on the market a few years ago. What color do you like best?:D:D

[Jerry Olexa]

Curt, I visied the local BORG earlier this week and they had a mock workbench set up to test the various drills. WOW!! I couldn't believe the power of the 18V lithium in an IMPACT drill. The conventional drills are powerful too but these impact drills are another level. I drove a lag screw deep into a 2X4 in seconds. I'm very impressed. Didn't think I needed an impact drill but they are great..Could've used one inlast week's project..I agree with your comments. Thankshttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/mhtml:{48F5897F-5E5A-41D0-AB4C-1ACE8C4BA808}mid://00000030/!x-usc:cid:B9E5AD37-36DB-40D2-9476-F2491E34AABF@hsd1.nj.comcast.net.OW

[Carl Beckett]

For 'most' of my drill work, I prefer a smaller drill (easier to work overhead, on ladder, tight spaces, etc). More power is not always needed.

My first drill was a Dewalt 14.4V. Very durable, plenty of power.

My second was a Makita 18V Li ion, two speed (the black/white model that comes with the smaller battery pack. Which also will take the full size Li ion batteries.

My third is a full size Makita 18V LiIon. I had a project that needed a hammer drill, and for this its useful.

By far the one I reach for the most often is the smaller Makita.

I have had two batteries go bad. One was replaced at no charge at the service center. I have also had the battery charger fail.

I love the drill and would buy again, but I have to warn of the battery/charger issue I have experienced.

(ps: impact drivers are definitely worth a look!)

[Dar Lounsbury]

I've had my Makita 18V LXT Lion for a year or so. Love it. I also have the 18 volt Milwaukee. It works very well but I like the Makita better. Sort of costly but you get what you pay for.

Dar

[John Harden]

Your post is full of misinformation. It certainly is possible to use 1/4 hex bits in the Festool system while still being able to use their proprietary system when it makes sense.
True, the Apex style drivers do not fit, but they do not fit any other drill mentioned so far either. They do fit impact drivers or you can just chuck them up in the keyless. Tell me what is different with other drills regarding this? The Festool proprietary system is an improvement over the Apex system while not excluding the use of the short hex bits within the system. Best of both worlds.

Also, the right angle attachment allows you to use their keyless chuck, thereby allowing any drill bit that could be used in a normal position. Additionally, you can still use their proprietary system in the right angle mount if you want to get into even tighter corners.

I disagree. Festool chose a proprietary chuck arrangement in hopes of selling their line of bits, drivers, etc. They chose this path over making the tool convenient for the consumer.

Would have been better to have just used standard fittings.

Regarding the right angle attachment, I didn't have room to put the keyless chuck on top of the right angle attachment. If Festool had used a standard snap in chuck arrangement like my Bosch, etc., it wouldn't have been a problem.

Standard hex head drill bits won't stay in as they do not lock in place.

Sounds like you really like your Festool, which is great for you. If I could do it over, I'd not have bought mine. That's just my .02 and it is totally okay with me if you disagree.

Regards,

John

[Mike Rees]

I've taken a hybrid approach since I don't have a need for multiple drills. Like most hybrid solutions its not a best fit for all applications but its a good enough fit for almost all of them.

I just picked up the DCD960KL. Its DeWALT's full size premium drill/driver w/ 18V XRP lithium ion batteries. The drill weighs a full pound less than the same drill w/ 18V XRP Nicads. At 5.25 pounds its no feather but its not a lead weight either. Plus it can do anything (450UWO) I can throw at it. Small or large. I like it very much - could be the last drill I buy for a long time.