For all of you that think, "It will Never Happen to Me"

[Paul Ryan]

I'm not sure if this is allowed or not, links to other forums. I hate to do this, but it goes out to everyone that thinks they are safe enough that it could never happen to them.


Paul linked to another w/w forum where a guy with 30 years experience cut off the end of his left thumb and was putting his Unisaw IIRC up for sale and buying a SawStop.

[Lloyd Kerry]

The "them" it only happens to can easily become "us".
Be careful in your shop- don't take any shortcuts!

Lloyd

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Remember, a Sawstop does not protect you from stupidity.... All of the work practices that we all learn STILL apply even after you pruchase a SS. That brake cartridge is the VERY last line of defense.

Brain #1.

Common sense #2.

Edit. I'm sorry, didn't mean to imply that anyone is stupid. Most mistakes are stupid mistakes. This came out wrong. No offense intended.

[Bob Luciano]

There have been 3 accidents reported this week with a TS.

[Dustin Lane]

In-line with Kyle's message, a sawstop will not protect against flying wood. A gentleman on another forum recently had a pretty bad accident where a chunk of wood came flying back and hit his thumb. It looks pretty bad, nail gone, down to the bone.

[Bob Genovesi]

Paul, it sounds like he was distracted and not paying attention.

Loosing a limb is a catastrophic injury that's scars anyone's future. The damage is deep and everlasting. Many of these serious injury's go well beyond the physical aspect effecting the victim psychologically. The next time you see someone missing a limb ask them, I'm certain they won't tell you "it's no big deal".

Power tools are very dangerous. In our case we subject ourselves to rotating razor sharp metal that in an instant slice completely through a limb without the slightest bit of compassion. This combined with inattention is a recipient for disaster.

I've never been nor will I ever be a proponent for all the safety gizmos available today. What I've found is they give a false sense of security; an illusion of safety which lowers ones overall attention leaving you wide open in another area.

Personally, I think the Saw Stop technology is a simply marvelous new invention and it will work as designed but it will never replace attention and common sense.

Keep your eyes and mind on your work and limbs attached the way God intended...

[Frank Drew]

Even the most careful person would be nuts to think "It will never happen to me", because that kind of thinking is one of the ways you get in trouble, simple inattention being the most common, probably.

A proper frame of mind is that the stuff always wants to bite us; you have to be careful all the time.

[phil harold]

harley avatar?

Paul you better read this if you are worried about safety...




In 2005, motorcycles made up 2.5 percent of all registered vehicles in the United States and accounted for only 0.4 percent of all vehicle miles traveled (VMT). However, in the same year, motorcyclists accounted for 10.5 percent of total traffic fatalities. Per 100,000 registered vehicles, the fatality rate for motorcyclists (73.12) in 2005 was 5.4 times the fatality rate for passenger car occupants (13.64). Per vehicle mile traveled in 2005, motorcyclists
(42.27) were about 37 times as likely as passenger car occupants (1.14) to die in motor vehicle traffic crashes.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810834.PDF

there are close to 6 times more injuries per motorcycle mile ridden than per car mile ridden

4 wheels are safer than 2

[John Schreiber]

. . . Edit. I'm sorry, didn't mean to imply that anyone is stupid. Most mistakes are stupid mistakes. This came out wrong. No offense intended.
I don't know anyone who isn't stupid at least once in a while. I just try very hard to not be stupid when I'm using power tools.

Most of the time our stupidity doesn't bite us. That's what makes us complacent and willing to make that one last cut even though we are tired or in a hurry or with the jig not set just right or with problematic wood. I won't speak for everyone, so I guess I mean me instead of us.

[Jason Beam]

there are close to 6 times more injuries per motorcycle mile ridden than per car mile ridden

4 wheels are safer than 2

You know why, right?

I'm serious.


If 4 wheel drivers would pay more attention and watch for 2 wheelers, it wouldn't be nearly as high. Most motorcycle deaths are not without a 4 wheel car involved. 4 wheels are safer for the driver, not the rest of the road.

I'll keep my 2 wheels, thanks. And I'll keep my eyes open for everyone, since I can't rely on anyone around me to actually be paying attention.

(Sorry to hijack, but this thread really is a little aimless without the link, anyway)

[phil harold]

You know why, right?

I'm serious.


If 4 wheel drivers would pay more attention and watch for 2 wheelers, it wouldn't be nearly as high. Most motorcycle deaths are not without a 4 wheel car involved. 4 wheels are safer for the driver, not the rest of the road.

I'll keep my 2 wheels, thanks. And I'll keep my eyes open for everyone, since I can't rely on anyone around me to actually be paying attention.

(Sorry to hijack, but this thread really is a little aimless without the link, anyway)

You nailed it on the head with "actually be paying attention"

if you paid attention and read the link that I posted you would see:


Findings based on characteristics of two-vehicle motorcycle crashes in which the motorcycle operator was killed from 2005:
• In nearly three-fourths of these crashes, the role of the motorcycle was recorded as the striking vehicle.
• Alcohol involvement among motorcycle operators killed was almost 2.5 times the alcohol involvement of the passenger vehicle drivers involved in these crashes.
• Nearly one-fourth (24%) of the motorcycle operators killed in two-vehicle crashes involving passenger vehicles, had an invalid license at the time of the crash compared to 8 percent of the passenger vehicle drivers.
• Of the motorcycle operators who were killed in these crashes, 27 percent were speeding at the time of the crash compared to 4 percent of the passenger vehicle drivers.
• Of the front-to-side crashes involving motorcycles and passenger vehicles, where one vehicle collided with the other at right angles, in 78 percent of the crashes the role of the motorcycle was recorded as the striking vehicle.
• In 55 percent of the head-on two-vehicle crashes involving motorcycles and passenger vehicles, the role of the motorcycle was recorded as the striking vehicle.

the numbers agree that most motorcyle deaths are caused with two vehicles
But, 44% (almost half) of the deaths are from single vehicle accidents:


In 2005 there were 4,553 motorcycle rider fatalities, of which 2,021 (44%) were from single-vehicle
crashes and 2,532 (56%) were from multivehicle motorcycle crashes.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810834.PDF



Now if you pay attention while using a Table Saw your body parts have a better chance of staying attached to your body

[David DeCristoforo]

The sign in my shop would have read "12,600 Days Without an Accident". Then I had one... a serious one at that. I can tell you this with certainty: You do not have to be "stupid" or even "do something stupid" to have an accident. Nor does being "stupid" or "doing something stupid" translate into the certainty that you will have an accident. All you need is "bad luck" or to "be in the wrong place at the wrong time". Those of you who have never been injured should consider yourselves fortunate and try not to get on a "high horse". If I was going to say that anything was "stupid" it would be to become overconfident or arrogant about the possibility of you having an accident yourself.

[Jeff Wright]

I think I may take up golf instead.

[Mike Heidrick]

I am not without fault. Human nature is my game. I am not accident free in my life. I have done stupid things. I have been uncautious and probably borderline dangerous in my life in situations I may have avoided upon afterthought. I am glad I have options. Goes beyond the shop too. Have a safe weekend.

Do what you believe in your heart is right. Encourage others to follow their heart.

[Mike Henderson]

I'm sure there are some motorcycle riders who ride safe and sane. But around here, the ones you notice on the freeway are those who zoom along much faster than the traffic flow and slide between two cars, while those cars are going maybe 60 MPH.

Most people shake their heads and say, "There goes an organ donor."

But even if everyone drove safe and sane, when there's an accident between an automobile (or truck) and a motorcycle, the motorcycle rider will likely sustain much worse injuries than the driver of the other vehicle.

And just to add some woodwork stuff, I'm looking seriously at the new SawStop.

Mike

[I used to own a motorcycle and rode it (mostly) to work.]

[Thomas Syrotchen]

I can tell you that I've been lucky once and had a router kickback on me. While I was smart enough to be using a push stick on the feed side, I didn't have an aux fence setup and the back of my finger on the outlet side was pulled across the bit. I was fortunate that is was only a little skin and just a bit of the tendon on the knuckle. It took me six months before I could even use the router table again and I personally think it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I look at that scar on occasion and remind myself that finger should be missing, someone liked me that day is the only reason I still have it. I also know that it was my own poor judgement and not the lack of a safety device that scared the heck out of me that day.

[george wilson]

Phil,stop trying to confuse people with facts :).

I guess everyone has seen maniacs on bikes. Last week,I saw a motorcycle snaking its way between cars in different lanes,that couldn't have been more than 6' apart. Everyone was doing 75. the bike was moving a lot faster.

Across the highway from my house,somewhere down the street are a few bikers who make incredible amounts of noise on every day in good weather. they seem to have no mufflers,and accelerate as fast,and as loudly as they can. When the same guys drive their cars,they,too are as noisy,and driven as fast as possible.

I wish the county would put up some kind of law against noisy vehicles.

I'm not saying ALL bikers are like that,but it sort of seems that bikes do draw the adventurous/outlaw/speeder/ types quite a bit,doesn't it?

I am going to take revenge on them if they don't stop. I plan to soup up my riding mower,make it as loud as possible,and drive past their houses at midnight repeatedly.:)

[Bill Wyko]

There is a tablesaw accident on average, every 9 minutes in the USA. This is good odds that it could easily be one of us.

[Rod Sheridan]

I am going to take revenge on them if they don't stop. I plan to soup up my riding mower,make it as loud as possible,and drive past their houses at midnight repeatedly.:)

Good for you George, I also hate loud motorcycles and I've been riding for 35 years.

In 2002 my BMW was rear ended by an SUV that failed to stop for a pedestrian crossing, and the motorcycle and rider that was stopped at the crossing.

My bike was destroyed, I crushed every piece of armour in my riding suit except for the left shoulder pad.

After flying through the air with the bike, we bounced, and changed places, the bike was now on top of me, and we were sliding up the road.

My riding suit, gloves, boots and full face helmet were abraded.

I escaped with many bruises and only needed the services of a chiropractor after the accident.

All that protective gear paid off that day, and I was really glad that I wore the pants, as it was 32C outside and I almost put them in the saddlebag for the evening commute home.

I had a bright orange helmet, and was wearing my motorcycle instructor retro-reflective vest at the time. The bike also had reflective tape on the saddlebags.

The SUV driver saw neither my gear, nor the flashing lights or the public transit bus stopped beside me at the crossing, and didn't begin braking until after the collision.

The point of this rambling post is that accidents do happen to instructors who have ridden more than 500,000 miles accident free, or to wood workers who have been accident free for decades.

Being accident free for decades is not an indicator that that will be the case in the future, the only thing that makes a difference is wearing your protective gear and operating machinery safely.

Woodworkers who don't use guards at all times, or perform operations on machines that they weren't designed for, or use safety items such as splitters, push sticks etc, are removing the safety device that will save your bacon when the unexpected happens.

Same for riders who wear jeans and t shirts, and a partial helmet or no helmet at all. If I hadn't been wearing all my gear, the outcome would have been much different than simply a new bike and another $3,000 of clothing.

Keep safe, and remember, they're not accidents in most cases, they're preventable injuries.

Regards, Rod.

[Chris Padilla]

4 wheels are safer than 2

...unless those two wheels are HUMAN powered (well, at least one of the two wheels is human powered)!!

:D

[Dennis Peacock]

Across the highway from my house,somewhere down the street are a few bikers who make incredible amounts of noise on every day in good weather. they seem to have no mufflers,and accelerate as fast,and as loudly as they can. When the same guys drive their cars,they,too are as noisy,and driven as fast as possible.

I wish the county would put up some kind of law against noisy vehicles.

I'm not saying ALL bikers are like that,but it sort of seems that bikes do draw the adventurous/outlaw/speeder/ types quite a bit,doesn't it?

I am going to take revenge on them if they don't stop. I plan to soup up my riding mower,make it as loud as possible,and drive past their houses at midnight repeatedly.:)

George,
Legislation is supposed to be going in place for limiting noise for motorcycles. I don't know when, but it's supposed to be.

Now...about bikers. I am one. I am also a Patriot Guard Rider and a member of the Christian Motorcyclists Association. I've rode to provide escort during military funerals so the family can lay to rest their beloved who was killed in the line of military duty without being attacked by protesters of the war.
I've rode many miles on my own time and at my own expense to raise money for the March of Dimes, Breast Cancer Research, Children's Hospital's, and much more. What you don't realize is that there are THOUSANDS of bikers out there that are all serving our country and communities with good deeds and money that would never have been performed or raised by any other means.
Bikers are NOT all alike and there are more bikers out there that are responsible for helping to protect our fallen soldiers and their families as well as helping to raise money for very worthy causes such as Toys for Tots, Cozy Coats for Kids, and much more.

Now...to keep on topic?
Yes....be careful and don't work when you are tired or angry either in the shop as that is when it will most likely happen. Be safe in your shops!!!

[george wilson]

Dennis,I did say that not all bikers are like that,first sentence. I was sure I'd draw fire for my remarks,but they weren't for everyone. Of course I know that there are thousands of bikers out there. They all go past my house IN MASS sometimes on club rides!!!:)

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis,I did say that not all bikers are like that,first sentence. I was sure I'd draw fire for my remarks,but they weren't for everyone. Of course I know that there are thousands of bikers out there. They all go past my house IN MASS sometimes on club rides!!!:)

Understand...but I was just pointing to the legislation about bike noise levels for ya. :)

[Tom Henderson2]

You know why, right?

I'm serious.


If 4 wheel drivers would pay more attention and watch for 2 wheelers, it wouldn't be nearly as high. Most motorcycle deaths are not without a 4 wheel car involved. 4 wheels are safer for the driver, not the rest of the road.

I'll keep my 2 wheels, thanks. And I'll keep my eyes open for everyone, since I can't rely on anyone around me to actually be paying attention.

(Sorry to hijack, but this thread really is a little aimless without the link, anyway)

And if motorcycle riders would drive defensively and realize that 4-wheelers may not see them, things would be better still.

Most motorcycle riders are safe and sane. But a lot are just nuts.

-TH

[Robert Chapman]

Riding a motorcycle safely is a lot like working safely in your wood shop. I do both and I have been safer on the bike than in the shop. The reason for that is that in the shop there is only one person who can do a stupid thing. On the road on the bike there are an infinite number of people who can do stupid things. My point is - whether in the wood shop or on your scooter always be defensive and careful - assume that no one sees you and assume that every tool can bite you at any time.

[george wilson]

I saw a biker coming the other way down the road,doing about 55 or 60. He was leaned completely against some vertical rail behind his seat. HIS FEET were resting on the GAS TANK!!! No hands any where near the handle bars.

Well,this guy went past a construction site,where he spotted a scantily clad young female carpenter. He lost control,flew off his bike,and slid sitting down across a running contractor's saw. Completely ruined the inseam of his new (but distressed) biker pants. Alright,I made up the last paragraph,in a feeble effort to get back on topic!! But,It made for some interesting reading,didn't it? :)

[Bob Genovesi]

Phil,stop trying to confuse people with facts :).

Across the highway from my house,somewhere down the street are a few bikers who make incredible amounts of noise on every day in good weather. they seem to have no mufflers,and accelerate as fast,and as loudly as they can. When the same guys drive their cars,they,too are as noisy,and driven as fast as possible.

I wish the county would put up some kind of law against noisy vehicles.



I know this thread had gotten way off topic but!!

The government has had noise standards in place for a long time. The problem is these morons, mostly Harley Davidson motor cycles, remove the factory mufflers / exhaust and go to straight pipes or pipes with minimal noise reduction.

To my surprise I've seen local police stop bikers because of noise and cite them right on the spot, good for them!

When I was a kid I used to run Thrush or Cherry Bomb mufflers and got stopped a few times before I learned there was no tolerance for them.

If you really want to change this start towing the motorcycles for running without mufflers. If you drove your car this way you'd be towed in a heartbeat!!

[Cody Colston]

i saw a biker coming the other way down the road,doing about 55 or 60. He was leaned completely against some vertical rail behind his seat. His feet were resting on the gas tank!!! No hands any where near the handle bars.

Well,this guy went past a construction site,where he spotted a scantily clad young female carpenter. He lost control,flew off his bike,and slid sitting down across a running contractor's saw. Completely ruined the inseam of his new (but distressed) biker pants. Alright,i made up the last paragraph,in a feeble effort to get back on topic!! But,it made for some interesting reading,didn't it? :)

Good one, George

[Frank Hagan]

What are the real statistics on table saw accidents?

I've read 60,000 in a year. I've read that 90% of them are from kickback, where the operator is injured by a piece of the stock flying back at him, not cutting something soft and fleshy.

If that's true, then there are 54,000 kickback accidents and "only" 6,000 cutting accidents. Sounds like a riving knife is a statistically more important tablesaw addition than a blade brake. Funny that the ads for Sawstop don't break down the stats ... it could be that their riving knife is "safer" than their blade brake technology.

I would like to see a very detailed analysis of the table saw accidents. How many are from cutting sheet stock (better done with a circular saw and saw guide than most home shop set ups)? How many are from kickback with smaller pieces? How many are from improper use or what we would probably call "stupid" behavior?

There's always a cost/benefit analysis we use on these things, but having real information can help us make that analysis. If 90% of the time, the accident happens from cutting sheet stock in a shop too small to cut it in (no outfeed table, etc.), then we can avoid that behavior cheaper than buying $10,000 of equipment.

I have had minor injuries myself, so I have no illusions about being immune. I have had a couple of near misses. There's a hole in the drywall behind my saw I refuse to patch ... its a reminder that the force of kickback is powerful indeed, and my stance to the left of the blade with my weight on my right foot positioned behind my left foot is a good idea. I didn't breath for a few seconds, turned off the saw and turned around. The kicked back piece was impaled in the wall. That could have been my stomach.

[David DeCristoforo]

"What are the real statistics on table saw accidents?"

Table saws? I thought we were talking about motorcycles here.....

;)

[Frank Hagan]

"What are the real statistics on table saw accidents?"

Table saws? I thought we were talking about motorcycles here.....

;)

Heh ... I was skimming over the motorcycle posts because they don't interest me! I drive a small car, and keep aware of the bikes around me. I move over in the lane to allow them to "lane split", and acknowledge their presence with a nod when I see them in the rear view mirror. I usually get a "low wave" in response as they pass.

BUT, I did find some stats from a 372KB PDF file at http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia03/os/powersaw.pdf. And the woodworking article that I had read on kickback ... saying it was responsible for 90% of the injuries, is wrong:



Based on the investigations of the incidents occurring between October 1, 2001 and December 31, 2001 which allowed for the identification of “unspecified saws”, the Directorate for Epidemiology estimated that there were about 52,000 injuries (CV = 0.12, n = 225)6 treated in U.S. hospital emergency rooms associated with stationary saws for the calendar year 2001. (A data summary of the annual injury estimates and the victims’ characteristics are presented in Table 1). About 38,000 injuries (73%) involved table saws, 7,640 injuries (15%) involved miter saws, 4,060 injuries (8%) involved band saws, and 2,300 injuries (4%) involved radial arm saws.

Lacerations (68%), amputations (9%), fractures (9%), and avulsions (8%) were predominant and accounted for about 48,880 injuries for the calendar year 20018. Most of the injuries were to fingers which accounted for about 43,160 injuries (83%)9. The rate of hospitalization was five percent 10 compared to the average rate of four percent associated with all consumer products reported through the NEISS system.
page 10

Later in the same report:


Blade-contact incidents accounted for about 12,300 injuries (86%). The remaining 2,000 injuries (14%) involved incidents such as being hit by the stock/cutting materials (10%), being hit by flying debris (3%)*, and child playing or spurious contacts11 (1%)*. Within the bladecontact incidents, about 11,800 injuries (96%) occurred while the saws were running, the
remaining 500 injuries (4%)* occurred when the saws were just turned on/off or not running.

That would seem to indicate that the stat I quoted was almost exactly backward; instead of 90% of injuries being from kickback, 86% are actually hand-to-blade injuries. But reading further on in the report:



5. The blade motion, with respect to the stock/cutting material, right before/at the time of the incident.
· Blade was inside a cut - 4,080 injuries (34%).
· Blade hit a knot, kicked wood up, or kicked back - 3,360 injuries (28%).
· Other (blade was above/resting against the stock not yet in a cut, caught on glove hand, or caught on hand that slipped off the stock – 1,890 injuries (16%).
· Blade caught/jammed on the stock - 1,320 injuries (11%)*.
· The blade motion was unknown - 1,350 injuries (11%).

6. The position of the left hand or right hand, with respect to the stock/cutting material, prior to/at the time of the incidents.
Table Saws and Band Saws (10,480 Injuries)
· Pushing/feeding the stock into the saw blade - 6,810 injuries (65%).
Within this activity, a free-hand operation accounted for about 3,710 injuries, using a push block accounted for about 2,370 injuries, using a wood rest/miter gauge accounted for about 120 injuries,* the remaining 610 injuries* were unknown (whether a push block, a wood rest/miter gauge, or a free-hand was used when feeding the stock into the blade).
· Holding the stock, reaching across or over the blade, pulling stock, adjusting the blade/table angle, or turning the saw on/off - 1,830 injuries (17%).
· The position of the hand was unknown - 1,840 injuries (18%).


So we now know that blade contact is responsible for 86% of the injuries, but the reason for the contact is less clear. Flying stock from kickback was less then 14%, yet "kickback" is mentioned in 28% of the injuries; clearly, something like 14% of the blade contact injuries are due to kickback drawing the operator off balance and causing him to "fall into" the blade with his hand.

The "blade was inside a cut" figure, the largest one at 34%, seems to indicate that during normal operation a hand made contact with the blade. No guard, probably.

In number 6 of the report, it seems using a miter guage or sled found far fewer injuries than any other kind of hand feeding. Fully half of the injuries from hand feeding stock were due to "freehand" feeding ... what most of us would call "stupid behavior".

So I have changed my mind about the Sawstop. I'll need to think about the whole report for a while, and what it means. But it seems the blade brake is a worthwhile safety device. Its still no substitute for the 16% of injuries that happen due to kickback or other cause. But it can probably help those who take the guard off their saws and don't use a splitter (I'm guilty as charged on this one).

[Danny Burns]

I think I may take up golf instead.

I would think twice before taking up the dangerous sport of golf!

Accidents are by there very definition something that could have been prevented, otherwise they would not be called accidents.

[Mike Henderson]

Frank - thanks for posting the link to that study. That's very interesting. Definitely makes me want to go buy a SawStop.

Mike

[Frank Hagan]

Frank - thanks for posting the link to that study. That's very interesting. Definitely makes me want to go buy a SawStop.

Mike

I'm still digesting it. The numbers are way off from what we've heard. 60,000 table saw accidents a year? No, more like 38,000 in 2001 out of a total of 52,000 ... the total number that we've been hearing includes all other powered saws, including miter saws, radial arm saws, etc.

Elsewhere in the report it mentions that most people are cross-cutting boards averaging 6" wide when they have an accident. I thought for sure it would be cutting sheet stock, or ripping material. They break them down further, to the type of cut used. There are very few cross-cut accidents when a miter guage or sled is used ... people are doing this freehand, or with just the fence as a guide. I doubt there are very many here on SMC that cross cut on a table saw without a miter guage or sled!

Almost 80% have removed the guards on their machines, which makes me want to finally spring for a SharkGuard or some other guard I'll use and feel safer with than the stock guard (which always makes me feel less safe).

[Jason Strauss]

At a summer job while in college (long before I caught the woodworking bug), I sawed off a ½ inch of my left thumb on an old, little used, table saw. And no, I’m not blaming the saw. Truth is, at that point, I had never even used a TS before – I chose metal shop in seventh grade instead – regrettable now.

Other than being shown the on/off switch, I was not trained on how to properly use the machine or how to protect myself. After using the darn thing all day to make repetitive cuts to long pieces of dimensional lumber, I lost focus. In a fraction of a second, I also lost the tip of that thumb. And while workers comp. paid the bills and gave me an extra $900, no amount of money can compensate. Partial or no thumb at all equals big problems.

Several years later, I forced myself to get over my fear of the necessary machines of our hobby. I’ve come to believe that a healthy amount of respect for these machines and a little bit of fear of a repeat of my earlier accident helps me keep focus.

Just like riding motorcycles, our hobby can be very relaxing. Both force us to focus only on the task at hand and forget the rest of our troubles.

Remember…ALL accidents in your own shop are preventable. And no, being hit over the head with a frying pan for being in the shop too long is not an accident.

[Wilbur Pan]

I'm still digesting it. The numbers are way off from what we've heard. 60,000 table saw accidents a year? No, more like 38,000 in 2001 out of a total of 52,000 ... the total number that we've been hearing includes all other powered saws, including miter saws, radial arm saws, etc.

For this type of study, even if the absolute numbers are off, the trends and percentages will still be relatively accurate. Earlier you mentioned that 86% of the accidents were due to blade contact. Even if the estimate of the total number of table saw accidents were off by a factor of 2, blade contact would still be a factor in about every 5 out of 6 of them.

By the way, I got a chuckle out of how they seem to have raided the Sears catalog for illustrations for the types of saws.

[Paul Ryan]

Back again fellas,

I have been missing for about a week, now I can rebut the motorcycle hatters. I do love my harley, I have put on over 100K miles on motorcycles and have never had an accident, but that doesn't mean it can't happen tommarow. Driving motorcylces has made me a much better driver in a car and on 2 wheels. It makes you focus so much on every vehicle close to you. Not trusting that they can or do see you. But all of my defensive drving will not prevent all accidents. I do wear a helmet but I am not about to wear a full riding suit every time I get on the bike. There are many days in the summer I ride in shorts and flip flops. My brain bucket is my primary concern. Even though driving motorcycles is very dangerous I am not about to abandon it because it is so dangerous. Just as with woodworking.

I chose to purchase a SS because my family believed it was worth the cost to hopfully prevent the momentary loss of focus accident. I would much rater get punched in the gut, or have a piece of fly wood hit me than cut off my fingers. Broken bones can heal, missing bones cannot. The thread I had read reminded me again, it doesn't matter how long you have been a woodworker, or how safe you are. It just takes once to change your life forever.