Which graphics program is best?

[Dave Garcia]

One and all,

This subject has probably been discussed many times in this forum but.....

Being a new person to this business and unable to find a thread discussing this issue, along with the fact that my only experience with a computer graphics program is with Photoshop Elements and iPhoto, I'm curious as to what software package all of you are using.

Yes, my research has shown that CorelDraw seems to be the software of choice. I also see by a number of the posts on this forum that CorelDraw might have cornered the market with regards to laser engravers. But I also see that this is primarily so because most everyone is a PC user.

Regardless, I'd sincerely appreciate hearing from those of you with experience in this regards as to how you came to choose the computer graphics software that you did, and why.

Thanks in advance for all of your comments and suggestions.

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd
-----------
Hawaiian rule: To be rich, make more or desire less!

[Doug Griffith]

I think it depends on how well you know your current programs. I happened to know Illustrator VERY well so a new learning curve (read Corel) was out of the question. You know Elements so for bitmap an upgrade to Photoshop CS seems like a good move. You didn't mention a vector application. Illustrator will seem intuitive to you because the interface is common amongst all Adobe apps. If you are a total newbie to vector, it might be wise to join the crowd and go with Coreldraw. You'll get all sorts of good information here. If you are on a Mac and wish to stay that way, go with Adobe products. They aren't leaving the platform anytime soon. Make sure your driver supports what you choose.

[Dave Garcia]

I think it depends on how well you know your current programs. I happened to know Illustrator VERY well so a new learning curve (read Corel) was out of the question. You know Elements so for bitmap an upgrade to Photoshop CS seems like a good move. You didn't mention a vector application. Illustrator will seem intuitive to you because the interface is common amongst all Adobe apps. If you are a total newbie to vector, it might be wise to join the crowd and go with Coreldraw. You'll get all sorts of good information here. If you are on a Mac and wish to stay that way, go with Adobe products. They aren't leaving the platform anytime soon. Make sure your driver supports what you choose.

Doug,

Sincerely appreciate your comments and direction.

Yes, I am a Mac user but have little to know experience with a full blown graphics program that works on a Mac, other than the Adobe products. Because of that I'm sort of limited as to the laser engraver that I'm able to purchase without having to load additional software on my Mac that will allow me to run CorelDraw on my Mac.

I've looked at Illustrator but am, especially with the pending purchase of the LaserPro C180, a little strapped for cash. I do have Adobe PhotoShop Elements 6, but am not sure how that works for what I'm trying to do with the laser. There are a number of my contacts on the wood working side of my business that have been asking me about transferring logos and photos via the laser to wood projects etc, etc. I've even had a number of close business friends ask about this as well. Not sure I want to fight the copy right issues with this or not but........ business is business and making money with the laser to cover the start up cost......... well, I think you get the point.

The LaserPro C180, although a small laser, does have a Mac driver starting this month, and seems to be the only laser engraver on the market that does. LaserPro has two California distributors, one within an hours drive from me. They have told me that they are willing to provide some basic training above and beyond how to actually use the laser, which I thought was very nice of them.

I note from your response that you seem to be well equipped with various graphic programs. It appears that I've come to the right place for answers to my questions. Hope you don't mind. At this point I'm trying to "get smart" on all of this soonest.

As for what I'm planning to do with my laser, as you well know, that all hinges on my customer base. Without going into all of the details I primarily deal with the military overseas, providing them with all sorts of military presentation items such as plaques, retirement gifts and display items. The market is there. All I need to do is fill that need, which I've been able to do for the last two years with my CNC machine and basic wood working tools. But now it's time to branch out a little.

Again Doug, any and all the help and direction you can provide with regards to graphics software is and will be sincerely appreciated.

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Your best bet is to do a search in this forum for the names of the specific software. You will find gobs of posts within all sorts of threads where people explain how they achieved the results they did by using the specific program.

There is no "best" program. I have bounced back and forth with all the graphics & vector programs over the years and each one has it's strengths and weaknesses. Try them out, run their demos and see which one works best for you.

[Joe Pelonio]

It depends on what you will be doing. Corel is a good multi-purpose product, with Draw vector based and Paint for editing bitmaps. I have also used Freelance and Photoshop, but if not for Corel would go for Illustrator.I also use a strictly vector sign vinyl-cutting program for some cutting jobs, because it has some capabilities that are easier to do than in Corel, and sometimes use the same files for vinyl and laser.

[Dave Garcia]

Mike and Joe,

Thank you very much for your comments.

Most of my work will be small items that can fit on the table of the LaserPro C180. I'm not ready to go full throttle with the laser engraving as yet. The old Business 101 addage of staying small for as long as you can while maximizing your profit margin, and not spending more than one makes etc, etc.

Adobe products were built for the Mac. So I'm going to take your advice and have another look at Illustrator. But I need to learn the basics beginning with understand the differences in terms and applications, such as between bitmap and vector. Most of my graphics work has been with digital photos and scanned in items. I'm very much a rookie in other forms of graphics work. My only saving grace is that I will not be depending on making a living with this operation.

Again, if you have any further suggestions I'd really appreciate your help in any way you can, and or care to take the time to provide.

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[David Fairfield]

Adobe Illustrator is the industry standard for graphic artists. Corel is the standard for sign makers.

I love Adobe and use it exclusively on my Epilog. The new Epilog driver seems to work well with Adobe, I haven't experienced the glitches I did on the old driver.

There is a steep learning curve with a complex drawing program. I suggest taking a course at the local community college. I never would have been able to master the basics on my own.

Dave

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Photoshop Elements will engrave but will not cut. As a matter of fact it and the full version of Photoshop do a much better job at engraving then Illustrator or Corel. Corel has issues when you resize or change the DPI settings. Photoshop has built-in features that allow you to do this very easily.

I have both Illistrator and Corel and taught myself both learn both at the same time. Illistrator was a little easuer for me because of my familaraitry with Adobe products. But just did not like the way it handeld and soon started excelling with Corel.

I now use Corel for all my vectoring projects.

So I dont get slammed. I am a Elilog user and what works for me wont nessarily work for others. I come from an old Autocad background (Which I hated) and find Corel very easy to do very very complex things.

[Phil Salvati]

Dave,

FWIW... I have a "computer nerd" working for me... He has my PC based software running in his Mac. I am totally ignorant in this area... but maybe I can coax him in here to say how.

We have CS4 master suite as well as Corel.... Mainly because I am proficient with it, I use Corel for everything.... except sublimation work.

My opinions and pros for Corel Draw....

Corel is far cheaper than CS4.

The learning curve is by far lower than CS4

In this venue, I think you will find more help using Corel.

Staying where you are comfortable is key. You will get the idea as well as frustrated now matter what direction you choose.

I learn a new trick in Corel almost weekly.... Check out www.coreldrawtips.com... I look to see what he has new often. There is plenty of knowledge on the Creek too! If you are stuck...someone here will always have a new idea or angle to aid getting your dillemma solved.

[Dave Garcia]

Photoshop Elements will engrave but will not cut. As a matter of fact it and the full version of Photoshop do a much better job at engraving then Illustrator or Corel. Corel has issues when you resize or change the DPI settings. Photoshop has built-in features that allow you to do this very easily.

I have both Illistrator and Corel and taught myself both learn both at the same time. Illistrator was a little easuer for me because of my familaraitry with Adobe products. But just did not like the way it handeld and soon started excelling with Corel.

I now use Corel for all my vectoring projects.

So I dont get slammed. I am a Elilog user and what works for me wont nessarily work for others. I come from an old Autocad background (Which I hated) and find Corel very easy to do very very complex things.

Michael,

Could you please explain what you mean when you say that Photoshop Elements can engrave but can not cut? Since I seriously doubt that I'll be cutting anything right out of the box, and do have Photoshop Elements 6 already, maybe this is all the software I need for now? Might this be a good way to get my feet wet without breaking the bank?

I really do not forsee myself getting into the full blown graphics issues that would be available with both CorelDraw and or Illustrator. So if Photoshop Elements will do the engraving then maybe this is the way to go?

As you can tell, I'm really at the very basic stages of all this and need to fill in the blanks before any more money is spent.

No worries about getting slammed from me for any comments that you or anyone makes when it comes to laser engraving and or graphics software. My issues are in trying to weed out what I need and act accordingly. So I sincerely appreciate anyone and everyones comments. It will be up to me to act accordingly based on what I know and, more importantly, understand.

Thanks in advance for any comments and advice you can give.

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Gary Hair]

Dave,
I'm not usually a "do it this way because everyone else does" kind of guy. But, this is one of those times that following with the rest of the pack is an advantage. Whether you use Corel or Illustrator, you will get good results and neither will have any significant advantages or disadvantages over the other.

Where you will find the biggest difference is in support. On every engraving forum I visit the majority of people, probably 99%, use Corel. If you need help with Illustrator you won't find it as easy as with Corel. That's not to say you won't find it at all, but it will be harder to find.

Gary

[Dave Garcia]

Dave,

FWIW... I have a "computer nerd" working for me... He has my PC based software running in his Mac. I am totally ignorant in this area... but maybe I can coax him in here to say how.

We have CS4 master suite as well as Corel.... Mainly because I am proficient with it, I use Corel for everything.... except sublimation work.

My opinions and pros for Corel Draw....

Corel is far cheaper than CS4.

The learning curve is by far lower than CS4

In this venue, I think you will find more help using Corel.

Staying where you are comfortable is key. You will get the idea as well as frustrated now matter what direction you choose.

I learn a new trick in Corel almost weekly.... Check out www.coreldrawtips.com (http://www.coreldrawtips.com)... I look to see what he has new often. There is plenty of knowledge on the Creek too! If you are stuck...someone here will always have a new idea or angle to aid getting your dillemma solved.

Phil,

Thank you very much for your comments and direction.

Yes, I'm aware that there is software that you can load on a Mac that will allow one to run and use Windows based programs such as CorelDraw. Your computer friend more than likely has Parallels or some other software loaded that allows him/her to do so. Personally, after switching to the Mac platform after 30 years of working with the PC, I'd rather not go back in time if at all possible.

All of your points and comments are good ones. Please continue providing same if you have other items that you'd like to pass my direction. Right now I'm a big sponge, researching anything I can get my hands on in order to make an informed decision.

Thanks again.

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Doug Griffith]

If you work on Mac hardware and don't want to install any virtual machines or boot up in Bootcamp, I think your best bet is Adobe Illustrator. It is very powerful and the next most commonly used app for lasering. To get a hang of Illustrator's bezier curves before taking the plunge, learn the path tool in Elements. It is virtually the same albeit less powerful. Also, since you say you will not have any need for cutting, make money with what you have and add that capacity later.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

It depends on the laser driver. With the Epilog driver any time you print a photo as a bit map it will engrave. You can send the image untouched (I don't recommend) or process it first. IE convert to black and white and set the levels and so forth. The laser will dither based on the amount of black and white or on the colors if you did not convert.

I print directly from photoshop. Photoshop even lets me position the photo on the laser bed with such accuracy I can go back with Corell and cut the engraving out with vector cuts.

You will have to look and see how the LaserPro driver does this.

[Rodne Gold]

The laserpro/Gcc machines are set up for corel and their drivers are optimised for it
I have all manner of cad packages , runing from Acad , illustrator , mastercam , artcam , signlab etc.
My org uses Corel as a front end for just about ALL my machines , 6 laserpros run directly off it , my large format printer uses it to its RIP, My Tekcel overhead router uses a Corel dwg into its post processor , my Isel engraving machines uses corel as do my a3 printers etc.
there are other packages that do technical things better tyhan Corel , but the thing is , that import and exporting graphic images has gotten a lot better these days , so for anything I cannot do easily in Corel , I might use for example acad to do it an then import.
corel still remains the core..

I would suggest you stick with Corel in this case , its a very easy package to use and its cheap (you can get an early version for next to nothing) and it will allow you to get the best out your laserpro machine.

[Andrea Weissenseel]

Most of my work I do in Corel and for some things Xara Xtreme. For photos I use Photoshop and also send it directly from there to the Laser it works perfect

[Sarah Holbrook]

Dan, you should be able to get a trial version of Illustrator to see if it suits you for cutting. If LaserPro does come out with a Mac driver and you don't want to spend the money on Illustrator you should do a search for "vector" on versiontracker and try out some of the smaller guys' apps. I'm sure there are a lot of programs that will do the basic stuff. Unless you're a graphic artist you're unlikely to use all of the features that Illustrator has.

[Dave Garcia]

Dan, you should be able to get a trial version of Illustrator to see if it suits you for cutting. If LaserPro does come out with a Mac driver and you don't want to spend the money on Illustrator you should do a search for "vector" on versiontracker and try out some of the smaller guys' apps. I'm sure there are a lot of programs that will do the basic stuff. Unless you're a graphic artist you're unlikely to use all of the features that Illustrator has.

Sara,

Did you have any luck getting in touch with the two California LaserPro individuals with the contact info I sent? Kurt Koser is the father of Parker Koser. Kurt is located in the San Francisco Bay area.

I also just checked the web address that I sent to make sure that it works, and it does. There are a couple of very interesting videos on that site that have pointed me in the right direction. Check it out.

Thanks again for your comments. I most definitely will check out "vector" and "versiontracker". Also understand about some of the smaller software folks etc. When you must work within a budget and still get the job done these "little" folks certainly come in handy. Do you have any particular software in mind?

No I'm not a graphic artist and probably never will be. I'm just a happy wood worker interested in expanding a little, mainly because my customer base has asked for it.

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Dave Garcia]

The laserpro/Gcc machines are set up for corel and their drivers are optimised for it
I have all manner of cad packages , runing from Acad , illustrator , mastercam , artcam , signlab etc.
My org uses Corel as a front end for just about ALL my machines , 6 laserpros run directly off it , my large format printer uses it to its RIP, My Tekcel overhead router uses a Corel dwg into its post processor , my Isel engraving machines uses corel as do my a3 printers etc.
there are other packages that do technical things better tyhan Corel , but the thing is , that import and exporting graphic images has gotten a lot better these days , so for anything I cannot do easily in Corel , I might use for example acad to do it an then import.
corel still remains the core..

I would suggest you stick with Corel in this case , its a very easy package to use and its cheap (you can get an early version for next to nothing) and it will allow you to get the best out your laserpro machine.

Rodney,

Thank you very much for your comments. Looks like you have a pretty good business going there in South Africa.

I have used CorelDraw a little in the past. You're right, it was easy to learn. And I'm also very glad to hear that it works well with the LaserPro series of engravers. The folks at LaserPro did tell me that it is the software package of choice. But they also told me that they have seen the need for a Mac driver and are one of the few, if not the only, company that is offering a Mac comptabile driver.

It just might be that I have to load a "second" software package, such as Bootcamp and or Parallels, to run a Windows ap on my Mac, which is something I really do not want to do but.......

I will also take your advice and research getting an earlier version of CorelDraw just in case that's what I end up having to do. If you think of any other information that would help in making this decision, please, by all means, pass it along.

Thanks again!

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Rodne Gold]

Well , essentially the laserpros work with the win drivers , I have used Acad to mine but it's a schlep. Perhaps you can use your mac for everything else but use an el cheapo running bloze for the laser?
If they do have a mac driver - you can use just about anything that will print to it...

I also vowed never to drive anything but my 2 muscle cars - a vette and a 454 El Camino ...I had to sell out and bought myself a Honda Jazz (fit) cos altho my V8 stuff did things better - they weren't practical...Same with bloze/corel .. sometimes you just got to take the easier way out.

[Dave Garcia]

Well , essentially the laserpros work with the win drivers , I have used Acad to mine but it's a schlep. Perhaps you can use your mac for everything else but use an el cheapo running bloze for the laser?
If they do have a mac driver - you can use just about anything that will print to it...

I also vowed never to drive anything but my 2 muscle cars - a vette and a 454 El Camino ...I had to sell out and bought myself a Honda Jazz (fit) cos altho my V8 stuff did things better - they weren't practical...Same with bloze/corel .. sometimes you just got to take the easier way out.

Rodne,

What did you mean by saying that "use an el cheapo running bloze for the laser"? Was this regarding the software or the computer?

Sorry to hear that you had to give up your Vette and El Camino. But you got yourself a really nice replacement in the Honda Fit.

And yes, I understand taking the easy way. But then again sometimes it's better to wait until you can afford the more capable package. Here's another question. Please explain "bloze/corel".

Thank you very much for all of the great information.

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Scott Shepherd]

I think he means run a cheap computer to run windows for your machine alone. You can still do everything on your main computer, but get it over to the cheap computer to run the file. Bloze is referring to "windows" or some call "WinBlows", or bloze for short. Some people don't even like referring to it as windows.

[Dave Garcia]

Scott,

Thank you for the clarification. Using a second computer to run the laser is probably a good way to go if my business could afford it and the additional software package to do so. It still might boil down to that but..........

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Rodne Gold]

I didnt sell my Vette and El Camino...was driving both of em on a daily basis but was getting 1-3km per litre and traffic was a bit of a killer ...so sold out in that I got a cheap reliable Japanese car for everyday and I just use the other 2 when I want to be a hooligan on the road...
Bloze is slang for Winblows - by MicroSnot :)

[Dave Garcia]

Rodney,

Thank you very much for the education. Bloze......... that's the main reason, after 30 years working with the PC, that I switched to the Mac platform and am not looking back. Hopefully soon someone, besides LaserPro with regards to a Mac compatible driver, and Adobe for graphics software, will realize the market potential for Mac compatible products in the engraving field and aggressively fill it, whether that be Apple or someone else.

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Sarah Holbrook]

Did you have any luck getting in touch with the two California LaserPro individuals with the contact info I sent?


I left a message with Parker. I don't have any specific software recommendations as I've been using Illustrator for 10+ years, but EasyDraw has a good rating on VersionTracker, has a demo, and is $95. You might want to give that a try. http://www.eazydraw.com/

[Dave Garcia]

I left a message with Parker. I don't have any specific software recommendations as I've been using Illustrator for 10+ years, but EasyDraw has a good rating on VersionTracker, has a demo, and is $95. You might want to give that a try. http://www.eazydraw.com/

Sara,

Really hope that either of the Koser's get back in touch with you. More importantly I hope that you'll get the answers you're looking for directly from them on the compatible driver for Mac.

Thank you very much for the link to Eazydraw. I stopped by the local Mac store today and got some pretty good answers from them concerning Mac graphics software, especially for vector graphics. Have you ever heard of or tried the Macware software titled Logo Design Studio Pro? At first look, this software appears to be somewhat like the Eazydraw software. Neither of these two software packages are as robust as Illustrator, but they just might do what I need to get done.

I will download both of their trial versions and see what I can see.

Thanks again for all your comments and direction.

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Dave,
Don't limit yourself by focusing on your Mac. PC's are cheap enough and used ones that are way fast enough to handle just about anything you can through at it as long as it has at least XP pro and plenty of cheap ram. I say this because I bought an old IBM pc that is dedicated to my laser. I have Corel X3 on it and X4 on my main office PC. USB sticks are cheap and I can design in the office load on to the stick and then bring it to the laser room and have an automatic back up also. This way nothing interferes with the laser. I don't even have it hooked up to the net so it would not be effected by memory hogging virus protection software. I keep that on the office PC so I know what I take out of it is scanned and clean.

Corel is the standard for laser and most of the templates and files shared on here will be Corel files other than your clip art. So in my opinion no matter what you do, you should have corel draw either as your main software or in addition to AI.

You can get older versions of X3 for less on the net or Ebay but as someone mentioned you can get plenty of help with Corel here on the creek or at many of the laser shows around the USA. But which ever one you choose make sure you take a class or get the additional video tutorials. there are several links here and one of them is a guy named Tom that has a good one. I am not sure of how much laser specific help there is with AI but I do have CS3 also but rarely use it.

It is ultimately up to you and what you feel the most comfortable with and can be the most productive with.

[Kim Vellore]

Sara,


I will download both of their trial versions and see what I can see.

Thanks again for all your comments and direction.

Dave :)
The Wood Block, Ltd

Dave,
If you use these programs please post your inputs on using them, I am looking for one for the MAC too. I have tried graphite
http://www.ashlar.com/sections/products/graphite/graphite.html
not so easy to use, it is like one of the drafting packages like autocad, need to take a class to be able to use it effectively. looking forward to hear your experience.

Kim