first project in new shop

[sean m. titmas]

before i start my Ringling Museum project i decided to build a few small projects to help work the bugs out and do a test run on my new shop. the first one is a simple bench with two "A" frames connected by 36" long seat boards.

the first step was to draw it using Sketch Up. SU is a wonderful resource for taking the ideas that are floating around in my head and putting them on paper. after i tweaked the angles and had the design just right i cut out some heavy card stock to use as templates for each of the different pieces. (once i get a large format printer i will be able to print out the individual pieces at full scale and skip the hand cutting method)

i cut the templates from card stock instead of 1/4" hardboard so that i can tweak any of the sizes or dimensions with just a pair of scissors. once i have a design finalized i plane up some stock and lay out the templates to find the best use of the grain pattern. i band saw the pieces and than allow the blanks to rest for a few days before the next step.

i have a few more steps before i get to assembling the pieces but before i get to that poinmt i have to decide how i want to attach the planks to the top rail of the A frame. i could screw them down from the top and plug the holes but im not a fan of screws for this project. im open to suggestions from the Creek. im looking for a traditional method to join a seat to a rail. any ideas?

[Danny Thompson]

I love the design, Sean.

May I suggest square pegs in through mortises. That is, square pegs that that are flush with the top of the seat and pass through to matching mortises in the rails.

Imagine drilling 3/8" holes through the top into the rails, driving 3/8" dowel and trimming it flush. Now imagine them square in a contrastring wood.

Then again, the pegs could protrude slightly . . .

[sean m. titmas]

that is a good idea and right in line with my plan for using draw bore pins to assembly the cross rail and top rail on the A frame. will 2 pegs for each of the 3 boards be strong enough to withstand heavy use?

[John Keeton]

I would keep in mind the wood movement of the seat boards, and the lack of movement of the top rail. Looks like you are using mahogany, ipe, or some look alike wood, so that may not be too much of an issue.

You could attach a ledger to the inside surface of the top rail, and screw up into the seat boards, but I also think square pegs would look good.

Even if you simply countersunk some screws and left a square recess for fake plugs, it would be secure, and give you the look you want. You don't say how wide the boards are, but 3/8" may be a little small in scale for the plugs/pegs.

[sean m. titmas]

john,

im using Maro Macho which is a Brazilian mahogany. the wood is fairly stable, even when left outside.
the top boards are 1"x 6".
im debating weather or not to put a space between them or glue up the entire seat as one. slotted screw holes from the underside of the rail or a ledger would leave a clean look on the topside and allow for seasonal wood movement.

i think adding a second cross piece with a ledger will stiffen the bench and give additional screw points.

[John Keeton]

Now it is coming together! I like the idea of a solid top and the new design - much more mass and should be more stable. However, you will need to deal with the curve, and with 1" boards, I don't know if that will work.

To me, screwing from the bottom will provide a better appearance.

[Prashun Patel]

Personally, I liked the curved top.

Anyway, you don't really need the top stretcher if you have the bottom one. Further, you won't see the curve of the top stretcher; that design element is IMHO wasted on the top. I'd curve the bottom stretcher instead and eliminate the top one

[Wayne Morley]

If you plan to use this bench outside I would leave the space between the seat boards to allow rain water to drain off easier. I like the look of the stretcher with the wedge, but it wouldn’t be functional if you permanently attach the seat to the legs. I would skip the wedge, or make the bench truly knockdown, similar to trestle table.

[sean m. titmas]

good point about being either totally knock down or all permanently attached.
how about making the tenon a wedge tenon with it being flush on the outside? i can use the flush wedge tenon to attach the top as well.

[Danny Thompson]

The flush wedge tenons (permanent) sound good to me. Just make sure the tenons in the top have their grain vertically aligned (i.e., through mortises in the seat, regular mortises in the stretchers). The tenons would serve the same function as the pegs described earlier in the thread. This option would work particularly well if you go with gaps in the seat boards. With separate boards, wood movement would not be an issue.

You could lose the tenons in the seat and go with three screws countersunk into each stretcher, one screw per seat board. They would provide an effective connection between the seat and base (the long stretcher would prevent twist making single screws enough) without risking wood movement issues.

Another option is to lose the upper stretchers altogether and have integral tenons on the top ends of the legs set in through mortises in the seat. But this would require the top to be edge-glued into a single piece. With no stretcher, wood movement would not be an issue.

My votes: 3 separate boards with a gap between each and riding on top stretchers to form a curved seat. Flush through-tenons connecting the long stretcher to the lower leg assembly stretchers and flush pegs or tenons connecting the seat boards to the upper stretchers.

[Mark Norman]

I would leave a slight gap in the seat boards and use hard oak dowels to join them to the 'a-frame'. Square pegs work too.

[sean m. titmas]

My votes: 3 separate boards with a gap between each and riding on top stretchers to form a curved seat. Flush through-tenons connecting the long stretcher to the lower leg assembly stretchers and flush pegs or tenons connecting the seat boards to the upper stretchers.

i decided to go with 3 separate boards and flush through tenons for the stretchers.

im still not decided on a curved or straight lower stretcher.

[Danny Thompson]

Do you have a particular curve in mind?

Another $0.02. Assuming you are talking about the long stretcher, how about straight top and bottom edges and curves cut into the front and rear faces (so the face of the stretcher is full height from left to right, but the top and bottom edges get narrower toward the middle). Make sense?

A standard straight stretcher would be good, too.

[Mark Kosmowski]

Very nice so far. Curves always impress me - I haven't dabbled in that in-between area that's not flat and square but didn't come from a lathe either.

[sean m. titmas]

i'll admit that getting the curves to look right is starting to take its toll on me but i will not admit defeat. i'll get a curve in this piece somewhere even if its just the mini stretchers on the A frame. the top is now going to be flat so im looking for some oriental influence to match the A frame. any ideas?

[sean m. titmas]

Oriental- out, nautical- in.

Talk about a coincidence, I ran into my Asian friend last night at the store and asked him his opinion for the top. He said to make it look like a floor hatch cover from a yacht.

I finished it today and will squirt the finish over the weekend. I showed my Mom and now she wants one with two matching chairs for her front porch. So now im open to any ideas for a nautical style chair with the slat method for the seat and back rest.

[Jim Rimmer]

Really nice, Sean. I like it better without the curve. The nautical touch is great.