Traditional Workbench Construction

[Thomas Syrotchen]

First I'm new to sawmill Creek, what a great site, wish I had found it years ago, would have saved me a lot of pain and probably more money.

I'm in the process of constructing a workbench modeled after the plans Keith Rucker has on his site which he modeled after Frank Klaus and so on... Keith had done a fantastic job with his plans and documentation, but my one concern is the Left Endcap which would seem to be a failure point. I understand the concept of not gluing it and allowing the table to move, but I can't get past the two dovetail joints, and my belief that the back apron dovetail would fail if the bench swells. Keith simply states they've been building them for years and they haven't failed yet. I see huge changes in humidity level so it's a large concern for me. I'm strongly considering removing the dovetail joint on the vise side and butting the dogtail strip to the endcap. I do love the look of the huge dovetail there though. Any thoughts on either construction method?

[Ben Davis]

Thomas,
Let me be the first to welcome you to the creek!

Workbenches are individual items. Your exact needs in a workbench are different than mine. I would, without question, suggest you pick up the Schwartz Workbenches book. It'll be one of the best $25 you spend and will take you through the history and uses of the workbench.

You should also fill out your member profile by clicking "User CP" at the top left of the page. That way we'll know where you live and other Creekers can chime in with more regioncentric advise.

Doc

[Thomas Syrotchen]

Thanks Ben for the tip on the User CP.
I guess I could qualify my statement about humidity change, saying the summers are hot and humid here in Fort Worth, and while it might be a sign of getting older, the winters are so dry, that when we moved here two years ago, I got nose bleeds and my hands cracked. Lived in several states and never seen such a huge change.
I've laminated 23 pieces of ~3/4" maple together in an effort to help reduce movement. I've had the maple in the rack 3 years and it was Kiln dried as well, so I'm not worried about excess moisture. However, since my garage is not climate controlled, its going to see a lot of change in humidity.

[Bill Keehn]

First I'm new to sawmill Creek, what a great site, wish I had found it years ago, would have saved me a lot of pain and probably more money.

I'm in the process of constructing a workbench modeled after the plans Keith Rucker has on his site which he modeled after Frank Klaus and so on... Keith had done a fantastic job with his plans and documentation, but my one concern is the Left Endcap which would seem to be a failure point. I understand the concept of not gluing it and allowing the table to move, but I can't get past the two dovetail joints, and my belief that the back apron dovetail would fail if the bench swells. Keith simply states they've been building them for years and they haven't failed yet. I see huge changes in humidity level so it's a large concern for me. I'm strongly considering removing the dovetail joint on the vise side and butting the dogtail strip to the endcap. I do love the look of the huge dovetail there though. Any thoughts on either construction method?

If you love the look of the dovetail joint on the vice then leave it there. You wont find a stronger joint for that application. True, that it could loosen during low humidity periods, but the pins are perpendicular to force applied to the joint. In other words, it won't come apart just because you put force on the vice. Also, don't forget the back runner will help hold it together.

If you still have doubts, just drill a set of offset holes through the top of the pins and tails of the dovetail joint. Tap a hardwood dowel into place and you'll have a solid drawbore pinned dovetail joint. You won't need any glue to hold in the pin. Look up drawbore pinning if you aren't sure what I am describing.

[Bill Keehn]

Oh, and welcome to the creek :)

[Thomas Syrotchen]

Thanks for the welcome from both of you.
Bill,
I'm only concerned about the joint in terms of wood movement. The funny thing is I'd probably prefer that the joint fail otherwise it would likely warp the top or snap the endcap if it was to strong. However, I think I'll follow your suggestion and use a small drawbore pin for the dovetail as opposed to gluing the joint. Since any wood movement would simply cause the joint to seperate against the pin, if I make the pin small enough it should just sheer and seperate as opposed to warping the top.

[Bill Keehn]

Better still, drill the hole through the bottom of the joint and don't go all the way through the top. Then you won't even see it.

[Thomas Syrotchen]

I had the same thought. Originally thought about doing all 4 corners in a contrasting wood for a decorative touch and then two things occured to me. I only have 3 corners with dovetails and its a workbench to be worked on, not a china cabinet. Thanks for the help!

[Ben Davis]

Tom,

How thick are these laminations. I guess my question is this: Is your top 3/4" thick, or are the laminates 3/4" wide?

Doc

[Thomas Syrotchen]

Ben,
The base of the top is 23 pieces of 3/4" thick x 3" wide by 72" long Maple. Making a nice 17" rectangle as a base for the table. I'll be adding an 8" tool tray, 2" back apron and 6" front apron. Total size of the table should be approx 33" x 72" and 3" thick. All the endcaps and Aprons will be 4" thick. As I said in the original post essentialy modeled after Keith Rucker's tradional workbench. He has a great website and PDF documenting the build. The main difference is I'm using 4/4 stock and gluing up a lot he used 12/4 stock. Long answer to say I'm laminating 3/4" stock 3" wide to end up with a top 3" thick.

[David Keller NC]

"I understand the concept of not gluing it and allowing the table to move, but I can't get past the two dovetail joints, and my belief that the back apron dovetail would fail if the bench swells."

I took a cursory look at Keith's site, and perhaps I'm missing something, but there doesn't seem to be an issue with wood movement on the end caps because of the presence of the tool tray.

My assumption here is that the end cap is not glued to the laminated bench top so that will "float" in the groove in the end cap. The tool tray should also not be glued into the grooves on the end cap and back apron. With sufficiently deep grooves, say 3/4", on the length of the back apron and the back of the laminated benchtop, and 1/2" play in the tool till width in these two grooves, it should matter that all four corners of the aprons are dovetailed together.

One rather unfortunate aspect of your shop is that with swings in humidity that steep, you are likely going to have to put a finish on it to slow the MC in the wood down. That's not something I recommend to handtool types - it tends to make the top slippery for handplaning.

One other comment - I would recommend re-designing the base of this bench if you intend to use handplanes to edge-joint boards. Besides the face vise, you need a way to support the back edge of the board while you work it. While theoretically you can use the end vise to hold a board jack, you're stuck if the board's not long enough to reach the jack. This is a typical situation in furniture building - most pieces are 4' in length or shorter.

[Thomas Syrotchen]

David,
Thanks for the advice. I did consider the tool tray floating in the movement like a raised panel, the ramps though don't float and would be solid wood and are glued in place which means the end 8" of the bench would be one continuious piece. I'm guessing then, that given the tools ramps are only 1/2" thick and do angle down that the movement of the bench would at worst buckle the tool trays.
The base I'm making will be similiar but I'm using top and bottom stretchers on both sides and inserting a cabinet underneath with a sliding board jack. There was a Bench in FWW a few years back that I'm modeling it after and there is a website http://www.threeplanes.net/Bench.html that has a similiar style as well. Small shop with big tools forced me into needing the storage.

I've been debating on finishes for the exact reason you mentioned. I'm leaning towards BLO and Mineral spirits mixed at 1:1 with a wax coat or a wiping varnish likely Formby's because it's cheap and available in my area. I'll admit my flaws I guess now, I'm building the bech in part to move towards more hand tools and fewer power tools. Handplaning is just one of the skills I'm forcing myslef to learn. So, if you have any recommendations on other finishes that might help with the slippery aspect, because I know both options I'm considering will produce a slick top.

[James G. Jones]

Thomas,
I'm just north of Dallas, so I am dealing with the same humidity fluctuations. I think the dovetail would be fine. As for workbench finishes, I used the same BLO and mineral spirits mix, with paste wax on the top. I haven't reapplied the wax in quite some time, and in the interim, I have beaten the daylights out of the finish with one project or another, and I don't get much wood movement in the top with humidity changes.

Good luck and HTH,

James

[David Keller NC]

Thomas - One solution to the potential wood movement problem would be to make the ramps 1/4" less wide than the tool tray space and glue them to the tool tray bottom instead of the end caps. In fact, if I were doing this I would have the tool tray bottom setting on two strips attached to the bottom of the side of the laminated top and the bottom of the back rail. That way, you can take it out if you need the clamp room across the width of the bench, and you can just pick it up and dump the inevitable hamster's nest that will accumulate instead of having to sweep it out.

Regarding a finish, there really isn't one that's going to solve the slick surface problem. However, if it were my bench I'd probably use a so-called "Danish Oil" - generally Watco, but I'm sure another brand would work just as well. The varnish in the blend should substantially slow down moisture absorption/desorption, but not build a film that's thick enough to look ugly once the inevitable dings and so forth show up. If necessary, you could always run a toothing plane transversely across the bench or some 150 grit sandpaper to rough the surface a little and provide more grip.

My guess is that you'll eventually not like having cabinets beneath the bench because it tends to interfere with clamping when it comes time to assemble things, and constantly having to stoop over to reach something in the drawers. So I'd suggest making the cabinets removable. One other reason to do this is so when it comes time to sell the bench and build another, you can take the cabinets out, build a base for them, and use them as freestanding pieces.

[Thomas Syrotchen]

Dave and James,
Great input from both, thank you.

James
Glad to hear that the finish should slow wood movement. As you know the nice thing about the area is that we seem to go from 0 -90% humidity in about a weeks time and stay there for a while.

Dave,
I think you helped me justify making the base and coming back later to do the cabinets. It will let me test run both options. I have used Danish oil in the past so I'm familiar with it as well and do like the product. I'm sold on the removable ramps. Might even put in the cleanout on the bottom I've seen others do that allows clamping in the middle of the table. If I like it, I'll make the removeable ramps hotwheel ramps for the kids.

Thanks again for the input.

[Dan Cobian]

Hello all, I guess I'm just not getting it. I have three 7" slabs (milled to 1 7/8" thick) that I will be end-gluing for the bench slab (with two benchdog strips). I'm putting the same 4 inch endcap on both sides and connecting them to the front and rear aprons. For the endcaps, should I glue fully the front large dovetail, anchor the middle of the endcap to the slab with a dowel (or bench bolt) and leave the rear of both endcaps as a kind of sliding dovetail of sorts? Sorry for being dense, but I can't find the answer to this specific problem I feel I'm facing.

-Dan

[Dan Cobian]

One more thing- Using 2 (7") Jatoba boards on either side of a 7" Maple board. There are also 2 (2") dog hole strips made of maple.

[Jim Koepke]

I had the same thought. Originally thought about doing all 4 corners in a contrasting wood for a decorative touch and then two things occured to me. I only have 3 corners with dovetails and its a workbench to be worked on, not a china cabinet. Thanks for the help!

Thomas,

Let me also welcome you to the creek.

Yes, it is a workbench. When someone comes into your shop, the only thing them may see of your work is your workbench and your cabinets. If you want to show them your abilities, that is what is available to show them. A bench of beauty is a pleasure to work on and to show off.

jim

[Jim Koepke]

Hello all, I guess I'm just not getting it. I have three 7" slabs (milled to 1 7/8" thick) that I will be end-gluing for the bench slab (with two benchdog strips). I'm putting the same 4 inch endcap on both sides and connecting them to the front and rear aprons. For the endcaps, should I glue fully the front large dovetail, anchor the middle of the endcap to the slab with a dowel (or bench bolt) and leave the rear of both endcaps as a kind of sliding dovetail of sorts? Sorry for being dense, but I can't find the answer to this specific problem I feel I'm facing.

-Dan

Howdy Dan,

Guess you should also get a welcome to the Creek. I think the sliding dovetail idea is about what you want. Wood moves across the grain with changes in humidity.

For better answers, maybe a look here can help:

http://pages.friendlycity.net/~krucker/Bench/index.htm

There are also many bench threads here on SMC. Do a search and I would guess you will be reading for a day or two.

jim

[Dan Cobian]

Jim,

Thanks for the welcome. I've actualy been looking for a few days now- I've seen the "Traditional Workbench article" you hyperlinked. Here is the passage I'm referring to (In blue):
My specific questions are in red.


The main design feature of the left end-cap (the front vise end of the bench), is the large dovetail that will fit into the pins of the dog-hole strip. The tail was cut out on the band saw, being sure to leave the line marked from the pins. After the waste was removed, I then cleaned up the tail and cut it to fit using sharp chisels. After a couple of test fits and removing a little more waste, it fit satisfactory. The next step was to cut the groove for the plywood spline as in the other parts of the top. Care was taken not to cut the slot where it would show in the tool till. A plywood spline was inserted into the groove and glue was spread ONLY on the dovetail end of the end-cap (glue entire length of spline on endcap side?) and it was clamped into place. (Do I fully glue the large dovetail in place?)
And Finally, the half blind dovetail pins were cut on the back of the end-cap to fit the tool till tray back. These pins were cut using traditional methods of first laying out the pins and then sawing as much waste as possible with a dovetail saw. The waste was then removed by chopping it out with a chisel. (So the half blind dovetail pins will float?)

Thanks for your help- this has been quite frustrating.

[Dan Karachio]

Tom, regarding your top post, I agree it is a great site and full of knowledge, but saving money is NOT something I associate with this forum, especially the hand tool section here where one can easily develop an insatiable lust for a wide variety of tools! :-)

[Jim Koepke]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][LEFT][A plywood spline was inserted into the groove and glue was spread ONLY on the dovetail end of the end-cap [COLOR=red](glue entire length of spline on endcap side?)

From my reading, it sounds like glue is only in the same location as the dovetail. This allows the spline to float. It is like a bread board end on a table. It appears there should not be glue on the spline.



clamped into place. (Do I fully glue the large dovetail in place?)


A plywood spline was inserted
into the groove and glue was spread ONLY on the dovetail end of the end-cap and it was
clamped into place.

The text implies the dovetail, and only the dovetail, is fully glued.


And Finally, the half blind dovetail pins were cut on the back of the end-cap to fit the tool till tray back. These pins were cut using traditional methods of first laying out the pins and then sawing as much waste as possible with a dovetail saw. The waste was then removed by chopping it out with a chisel. (So the half blind dovetail pins will float?)



The tool tray will most likely fit in a slot so there shouldn't be much expansion if the slot is made for the tool tray to float. So the half blinds should be glued or pinned.


Thanks for your help- this has been quite frustrating.

You are welcome, if there are more questions, ask them, I am sure someone will help. I can understand the frustration as I had to read the text a few times and very carefully and my answers are based on my best judgement of what was there. Someone else my see it differently. What works for you is the best way for you to do the project.

jtk

[Dan Cobian]

JTK,

Thanks so much. One of the reasons I am struggling is that I didn't want to put in a tool tray. If there is no tool tray, I don't know where the expansion will be compensated for. Without a tool tray (and if I glue both the front and rear of the endcap) it appears that there is nowhere for the expansion to happen. Any thoughts?

Thanks again,

-Dan

[Jim Koepke]

JTK,

Thanks so much. One of the reasons I am struggling is that I didn't want to put in a tool tray. If there is no tool tray, I don't know where the expansion will be compensated for. Without a tool tray (and if I glue both the front and rear of the endcap) it appears that there is nowhere for the expansion to happen. Any thoughts?

Thanks again,

-Dan

Without a tool tray, you are building a different bench which requires a different solution.

Not having handled this problem, I can only theorize. I would not use blind dovetails on the back side. In stead of a spline, a full width sliding dovetail would be considered. This could be pinned in the center and if need be, a couple of other pins with slots for expansion.

jim

[Dan Cobian]

"Full width sliding dovetail" sounds like it should be interesting- I'll look into that as an option. To be honest, a tiny part of me wants add a tool tray just to avoid the complexity.

[Dan Cobian]

To add to the confusion I came across this plan:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/projectplans/011167038.pdf

It shows half-blind dovetails on the front and what looks like an tongue in groove on the back. Looks like there would be no apron on the backside of the bench.

I offer this up to you Jim (and the rest of the forum) for your thoughts on the aesthetics and the functionality of this design.

Thanks again!

[David Keller NC]

Dan - Do you have Christopher Schwarz' book "Workbenches: From Theory and Design to Construction and Use"?

If you don't it's advisable to buy it before building your bench. It's cheap, and there's an incredible amount of thoughtful analysis in it for all sorts of things - from building benches to vise selection to work-holding "accessories" for benches.

I mention this because the construction you're talking about is very similar to the "English Bench" in the book. That bench doesn't have a tool tray, and I'll have to look, but I don't think it has a rear (or side) aprons either, but it has a wide front apron glued to the benchtop and dovetailed into the front legs, and would need similar considerations of where the wood movement's going with fluctuations in humidity and temperature.

[Jim Koepke]

To add to the confusion I came across this plan:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/projectplans/011167038.pdf

It shows half-blind dovetails on the front and what looks like an tongue in groove on the back. Looks like there would be no apron on the backside of the bench.

I offer this up to you Jim (and the rest of the forum) for your thoughts on the aesthetics and the functionality of this design.

Thanks again!

There are many ways to build a bench.

One needs to determine what they want in a bench, pick the design and go from there.

I would go with David Keller's advice and pick up a copy of Christopher Schwarz' book.

jim

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The dovetail is a conceit, a flourish, a nice thing that a person will undertake because they can.

And once you start down that road it is expensive to retrace your steps and do something else.

However, for pure strength and glue joint surface area, there are few joints that have the qualities of the finger joint. And a finger joint can be well done using machine tools like your table saw.

[Dan Cobian]

David,

I've purchased a couple books (one by Landis and I can't remember who authored the other one). I think almost all the benches I've seen have either a tool tray to absorb the expansion of the wood or have no endcaps...

[David Keller NC]

The book by Schwarz is night-and-day different than any other modern workbench book. The distinction is in the analysis portion of it - for workholding, vises, and bench construction. Even if you don't build a replica of the 2 bench designs in the book (and a 3rd on the CD), the analysis that's presented of why the benches are designed the way that they are is important.

[Dan Cobian]

I wish I'd asked before... I'm already done with the base and the lamination of the top (with the exception of the endcaps). I am just trying to figure out the endcap and apron part of the design.