Where next to invest for the shop?

[Ned Bulken]

Paul's 'core of your shop' thread struck a chord with me. I've got some birthday money in pocket, which in my family means buy something you want vs need. I was going to get a Laminate Trimmer, either a PC 310 or 7310, or possibly a Dewalt 670 I believe the model was. That was going to take just a bit of pocket money to round out the order. Then I saw Paul's post, and I got to thinking, what tool is most important in our shop. The answer is my Ridgid 3612, which I've owned for just about a year now, and except for putting a dado stack on it occasionally the stock blade has done a fine job up to this point. I believe it will be relegated to secondary duty in the near future. The question is, what to replace it with.
I could easily get a Forrest WWII, Or a CMT Cabinetmaker, I believe that John has a sweet 9" rip blade stashed away somewhere so we don't need another of those. What blade do you enjoy using? I recenly challenged myself to 'raise the bar' in my woodworking. Do I 'Need' a WWII or will a 'lesser' blade do just as well? Note, we also have a bench mounted 10" SCMS with a decent crosscut blade so we don't need a crosscut blade either at this time.
Suggestions, thoughts? Yes I've searched, I'm looking for 'new' opinions. thanks!

[John Miliunas]

Ned, the short answer: Forrest WWII! :) Long answer: Lots of "nice" blades out there. If you want the best, it's a Forrest WWII! :D On the other hand, you may just want to get a Forrest! :rolleyes: :cool:

[Gary Whitt]

Since you already have a crosscut blade, here's a good ripping blade for you:
http://www.toolseeker.com/TlAcc/sb.asp?var1=LM72R010
Freud LM72
Thin kerf version: LU87
http://www.toolseeker.com/TlAcc/sb.asp?var1=LU87R010

Glue line rip:
http://www.freud-tools.com/freudlmgluli1.html
Freud LM74

I use a WWII on occasion, but I like the Freuds better.

My .02

Good luck....

[Jim Becker]

I'm a Forrest (http://forrest.woodmall.com) enthusiest and prefer them over other blades I've tried. Whether you buy that brand or another, a high quality blade is a good investment, IMHO...after all, its the part that is doing the work.

[Chris Padilla]

I'll chime in a give a bump to CMT blades. They aren't as expensive as Forrest but I'm a happy camper with them. I should concede that I haven't tried any other brand yet. :)

[Ned Bulken]

an
Ned, the short answer: Forrest WWII! :) Long answer: Lots of "nice" blades out there. If you want the best, it's a Forrest WWII! :D On the other hand, you may just want to get a Forrest! :rolleyes: :cool:so John, I should get a forrest? Is that what you're telling me? I'm going to consult with my shop partner, He'll be tickled with any blade, If I get a CMT as Chris suggests I could also get a 'new' laminate router... Hrmmmm decisions decisions... of course with just a little more cash I could do both. Now there's a thought... forrest and a 7310!

Jim,
since you're a Forrest afficianado, what's the difference between the I and II blades? thanks. ned

[John Miliunas]

an so John, I should get a forrest? Is that what you're telling me?

Yeah, I think Forrest would be an *OK* choice! :D I will say, though, that I have used a CMT (still do on occassion, as it has the flat tips, which are great for cutting spline grooves!) and it's a fine blade and you'd have a heckuva' time talking me out of my Freud dado blade setup! :) Good luck with your choosing the "right" one and report back and let us know how you like the new Forrest! :D :D :D :cool:

[Tim Sproul]

I recenly challenged myself to 'raise the bar' in my woodworking. Do I 'Need' a WWII or will a 'lesser' blade do just as well?

IMHO...no matter how little or much skill you have, getting a new sawblade won't help you 'raise the bar.' That is, if you have apprentice skills, a sawblade won't help you achieve journey level skills...if you're journey level, it won't help you master woodworking. I do suppose there is some merit in the arguement that if you have confidence in your tooling, that will help you achieve a higher level of craftsmanship...but in this case, I'd be hardpressed to think that a WWII will do that over any other decent saw blade. I'm assuming the stock blade allows you to make straight cuts.

[Ned Bulken]

IMHO...no matter how little or much skill you have, getting a new sawblade won't help you 'raise the bar.' That is, if you have apprentice skills, a sawblade won't help you achieve journey level skills...if you're journey level, it won't help you master woodworking. I do suppose there is some merit in the arguement that if you have confidence in your tooling, that will help you achieve a higher level of craftsmanship...but in this case, I'd be hardpressed to think that a WWII will do that over any other decent saw blade. I'm assuming the stock blade allows you to make straight cuts.

Tim,
I absolutely agree, I do not Need a WWII to increase my skills at woodworking. More akin to the difference between a contractors saw vs a cabinet saw, they both cut wood, and people can make projects using either, but some people insist on a cabinet saw as the 'only' tool for them. I'd love to have one, instead I bought the best saw for my money a year ago (IIRC you have that same saw in your shop don't you?). Now it is time to buy a better blade because I have the moneyand I've continued to improve my skills in the year. I was cleaning my bench recently and came across some early projects, put them next to current projects and the difference was remarkable. My efforts to improve are solely mental, not related to the tool itself in any way. I suppose there is a certain amount of 'gee I can do this better' factored in with the addition of a better tool, but that goes away if the approach to the piece is sloppy. That is where I'm doing my best to improve. The WWII or any other blade I buy will be icing on the cake in that regard.
I'm going to do my best to increase the quality and workmanship of my pieces, and make that repeatable, so that when I find a piece the market likes I can do it again, which means taking notes, etc... (something which is a major change for me. I used to be much more lax in my approach to a project).
I really appreciate the astute comments, thank you!

[Rob Russell]

Ned,

Not to be the contrarian (well, OK - yes I am) - but why not wait until a prjoect calls for a tool and use the money to buy something you "want" for that project but don't really "need"?

Just a question for you to consider.

Rob

[Tim Sproul]

Ned,

Given that, I'd consider something other than a combo type blade. I'd be looking at a heavy duty rip - which would help you entertain ideas of using very thick stock. Thick stock can really help open up design and aesthetic doors in your projects....a BIG part, IMO to achieving fine furniture. Joinery is great, but reallly doesn't matter so long as the joint stays true. Your family or customers or yourself won't look at your joinery day in and day out - excepting the few joints that are exposed and "designed" to be seen. Can you notice a change in the selection of boards and grain patterns between earlier and later projects? If not, I'd contemplate a tool (books should also count as a tool) that might help open up doors related to that aspect of woodworking. Just something to mull over with a good bottle of wine :)

[Richard Allen]

Hi Ned

I know you are talking saw blades. But if it were me spending the money (and in this particular case it isn't me) I would buy some wood. Not just any wood but something different. IF I usually work in pine and poplar I would get some maple or cherry or walnut. If I work in walnut or cherry I would get some exotic wood. You can learn a LOT about woodworking by learning how to deal with the characteristics of different wood. The things you learn can be applied to working your usual woods. And it gives you the chance to move up even if only for a short while.

Other than wood I would take a class in some aspect of woodworking that I would like to become better at. Perhaps making dovetails or improve my finishing skills...

Saw blades? Freud works great for me.

Thanks

[Jim Becker]

what's the difference between the I and II blades? WW-II is for table saws and is a general purpose rip/crosscut/sheet goods blade. WW-I is best for RAS, although fine for cross cut on a TS. Different tooth geometry.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

IMHO...no matter how little or much skill you have, getting a new sawblade won't help you 'raise the bar.' That is, if you have apprentice skills, a sawblade won't help you achieve journey level skills...if you're journey level, it won't help you master woodworking. I do suppose there is some merit in the arguement that if you have confidence in your tooling, that will help you achieve a higher level of craftsmanship...but in this case, I'd be hardpressed to think that a WWII will do that over any other decent saw blade. I'm assuming the stock blade allows you to make straight cuts.


I think that's against the SMC rules.:) You're out of compliance if you don't mention and advoacte in you post at least once the following: Festool or Woodworker II.
But seriously what you say makes all the sense in the world. A lot of us have seen some beautiful work come out of shops with very minimal equipment.

Alan in Md.

[Gary Max]

Bought my WW11 five years ago---it's been sharpened twice and still cuts great.
You just can not buy a better blade. I still show it off to folks---thay can not beleive how smooth it cuts.

[Ned Bulken]

Well folks,
I don't know quite where to go with this, so much great commentary and advice.

I've been fortunate in that over the past two years, I've branched out quite a bit, working with many different woods, short of the exotics. Those are readily available, as I work perhaps 1/2 an hour away from Memphis Hardwoods, who stock a LOT of exotics. That is a distinct possibility. We live in an area with plenty of cherry, maple and walnut. I actually budget for some lumber every so often, and I have a bunch of maple and butternut on hand, and we just lucked into a fair amount of cherry too.
I spoke with my partner about what blades we have on hand, and it turns out we have a 9" freud glue-line rip blade (My Ridgid 3612 replaced a venerable Craftsman 9" saw), a 10" Tenryu 100 tooth crosscut blade (man is that sucker heavy!), plus the stock combo blade, along with a stacked dado set which does a fine job for our needs.
The 'save the money for a rainy day' approach... hmmm it has rained every week for the past three months locally, that count? ;)
As for classes, our woodworking guild does weekend workshops, not many other classes available locally. I learn most of what I do from John or from here on the 'Net, which has brought me a long way from where I started 4 years ago.

Budget may yet win out, I can get the CMT cabinetmaker for $55, and the WWII for $95... which begs the classic question, is it really $40 :eek: better? LOL :D

[Cecil Arnold]

I have a WWII and really like it on my cabnet saw. When a friend asked what blade to buy for his Craftsman at the wood show, I recommended a thin kerf Freud. He has been overjoyed with this choice and saved $40. I have used this blade on his saw and find the results very good IMHO. I really think that the difference in the two blades, or even the CMS with which I have no experience, is insignificant until you reach the highest level of woodworking. I would also recommedn the PC 310 for a lam trim. I find that I reach for it rather than the Bosch whenever I feel it will handle the job. It fits you hand well, has good power within limits, and is a real workhorse. The only thing I can fault is the sorry, IMO, collet, and the difficulty in changing bits.