Question about blade stiffeners

[Zach England]

Please bear with me, as I am new at this. I've lurked here for a while but have never posted before. I am making the move from home remodeling/general DIY to serious woodworking and recently replaced my Bosch benchtop table saw with a Jet cabinet saw. This is my first serious table saw, so I am still learning the specifics.

I know that many say blade stiffeners are gimicks, but I am a sucker for shiny metal things. I ordered a Forrest woodworker II blade and the 5 inch stiffeners from Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=30075&cat=1,41080,51225&ap=2). The problem with these stiffeners is that they are a pair, so mounting them in the fashion that seems most obvious to me offsets the blade by several mm. When I look at the arbor there is what looks like a washer identical the one that goes between the blade and nut, but it seems to be fixed to the spindle (please correct any incorrect terminology). It seems to me that the lee valley stifeners should replace both this "washer" and the opposite one that sandwiches the blade, thus keeping the blade in (theoretically) the same alignment. I don't like the idea of changing the blade's alignment because if the stiffeners have to be removed for a deeper cut the zero-clearance insert is rendered useless.

My question is: Is the "washer" closest to the belt supposed to be fixed and if so what is the proper prescription for using these stiffeners?

Thanks.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I have been using the Forrest Woodworker II with a 5" Forrest Stiffener on my table saw for over 20 years. The Forrest Stiffener is just one plate. It goes on the nutside of the blade. In my own use I do not consider a stiffener a gimick. I also have a Forrest stiffener on my radial arm saw. I do not cut without one.

http://www.forrestblades.com/dampner.htm

[Zach England]

Are the Forrest stiffeners cupped on the side that goes against the blade?

Since the ones I have are cupped would it be inadvisable to just use one?

I am thinking I should order the Forrest and try the ones I have on my 12 inch Bosch miter saw.

[Tom Cross]

Ditto on Forrest WWII and their stiffener for 20 years. It definitley makes a difference. When I need more depth of cut and have to cut without the stiffener, the cut quality is less.

[Myk Rian]

Use a full kerf blade, and you won't need a stiffener.

[glenn bradley]

I ran stiffeners for years with TK blades and have never heard them called gimmicks; you may want to think about your sources ;-) You don't mention the power of your saw but if it is 3HP or more, full kerf blades should do fine alone.

I recently spent a good amount of time dialing my saws in even better than before (thanks to a lot of the info learned here and the fact that I had the saws torn down anyway). I am running without stiffeners now and see no difference even on bevel cuts (so far). I am tracking the quality as I want to report a few months down the line. I should emphasize that I am a hobbyist and am not in a hurry so I am "more gentle" than one probably needs to be. IMHO, I don't see them as a disadvantage so I may end up filing them under "couldn't hurt" but time will tell.

[Peter Quinn]

My DeWalt RAS , 14" blade with a thick plate and a 3/16" kerf, has what I would call blade stiffeners as part of the OEM set up. They are like the washers on a TS but much bigger, though not a full 5". I think the inside washer on most US cabinet saws is fixed, it certainly is on my PM66. I have never used stiffeners on the cabinet saw as the cut quality is fine with a full kerf blade. but i don't see them as a gimmic. Might be more appropriate for TK blades or severe bevel cuts? I can't imagine needing the stiffeners with my WWII on 90 degree cuts, the quality of cut scarcely needs any improvement.

[Andy Bardowell]

I used them all the time with my old contractor saw, especially with thin-kerf blades but since switching to a cabinet saw I haven’t felt the need for them. I really liked the Craftsman set as they weren’t as thick as those you purchased but sold them with the contractor. I know what you mean though if you put one on the left side of the blade now you have to make a new zero clearance plate. I do like to use them when cutting tenon shoulders so I think I’ll try the Forest that Chris suggests.

[Chris Rosenberger]

Are the Forrest stiffeners cupped on the side that goes against the blade?

Since the ones I have are cupped would it be inadvisable to just use one?

I am thinking I should order the Forrest and try the ones I have on my 12 inch Bosch miter saw.


The Forrest stiffeners are flat plates.

[Byron Trantham]

Use a full kerf blade, and you won't need a stiffener.

+1 for no stiffener for full kerf blade

[Zach England]

Thanks. I have ordered the Forrest stiffener and a thin kerf blade.

So the washer IS fixed, not just stuck?

Someone mentioned the HP of the saw. It is only 1.5 because for the time being I do not have an available slot for a 220 breaker. At some point I'll remedy this and upgrade the motor, but for now I don't quite see the need for my applications. Last night I was cutting 2 inch oak across the grain with a lowly Irwin blade and it was smooth as (proverbial) silk. I am yet to try any of the Forrest blades, so I am sure it can only get better. The Jet saw is an epiphany after a life using portable/contractor style saws for my entire young lifetime.

But can you please explain the relationship between HP and flutter? It seems to me that the flutter would be more a product of mechanical limitations and imperfections than of torque.

Also, for those saying they have never heard the stiffeners called a gimmick, do a search for "blade stiffener" on these boards. :) There are plenty of naysayers.

Thanks for the info. I'm glad to have the advice.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I also wouldn't call a stiffener a gimmick. I also think (my .02) that you should use one if you have TK blade. If you can swing a full kerf, I think only then it would be a "gimmick". Or should I say, it would not help a whole lot, but it may help.

Flutter vs hp? I don't know, but my .02 is if you don't have enough hp to keep the blade at full speed, then you get flutter?

[Howard Acheson]

If you bought the type of "stiffeners" that come as a pair, you MUST use both parts. They are designed generally with a raised ring around the perimeter of one side. These raised areas grip the blade equally on both sides of the blade exerting equal force in the same part of the blade plate. If you don't use one of the stiffeners, you may exert force in diffeerent parts of the blade causing the blade to have slight cone shape. This is very bad for the blade and even worse for the quality of the saw cut.

The Forrest "stiffener" is only a flat plate where the whole plate rests against the blade plate. It's intent is to add spinning mass which, in theory, results in a better cut. Because it's a flat plate, it can be mounted singly on only one side of the blade.

So, in summary, if the "stiffeners" you have comes as a pair, you MUST use both. If the "stiffener" is a single plate, then you only need one. The ones that come as a pair will move the kerf necessitating changing your rip scale and making new zero clearence inserts.

[Zach England]

So, in summary, if the "stiffeners" you have come as a pair, you MUST use both. If the "stiffener" is a single plate, then you only need one. The ones that come as a pair will move the kerf necessitating changing your rip scale and making new zero clearence inserts.

Thanks. That answers my question. I'm not willing to have to offset the insert and rip scale. I tried to put them on my miter saw but there is not enough clearance. I now have some very nicely machined paperweights. :)

[scott spencer]

If your arbor runs true with low runout and low vibration, you shouldn't need stiffeners with a good blade....full kerf or thin. Stiffeners can dampen some vibrations if they exist, but they don't typically eliminate the cause. Better to get to the root of the problem than to band-aid it.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Blade stiffeners make excellent paper weights. If someone (Forrest) is selling me a blade, and telling me it needs a stiffener to work best, then I don't need their blade. I wouldn't hesitate to ask "What is wrong with your blade that requires a stiffener?" Kinda like salesman trying to sell me an extended warranty on a product that he just described as being the greatest thing since since sliced bread.

[Lee Schierer]

I'm of the opion that blade stiffeners are mostly gimmicks. The cheap ones gererally aren't flat on both sides. The sets with the concave inner surfaces or raised rings apply pressure to the sides of the blade and might help in thin kerf blades. However neither of these types can be used as a single..

Before using a stiffener you need to consider if the offset of your blade is going to create a problem with your cuts. Will your throat plate accept teh offset? Your scales on your miter gauge and rip fence will be off by the thickness of the stiffener. You'll also be limited on how high you can raise the blade. They are also two more parts to put on and take off every time you change the blade.

One final consideration is to look at your arbor shaft where the blade normally sits. If there is a shoulder there, it will fit the arbor hole quite closely. Most likely the threads are cut slightly smaller in diameter than that shoulder. Moving the blade away from the flange by the thickness of the stiffener will most likely put the blade over the threads, which if cut smaller will allow the blade to be mounted off center so it will be spinning our of round.

I have two sets of stiffeners. Both hang on the wall and don't get used. IMHO blade stiffeners are a pain to use and no substitute for a well tuned saw or a dedidcated rip blade.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Blade stiffeners make excellent paper weights. If someone (Forrest) is selling me a blade, and telling me it needs a stiffener to work best, then I don't need their blade. I wouldn't hesitate to ask "What is wrong with your blade that requires a stiffener?" Kinda like salesman trying to sell me an extended warranty on a product that he just described as being the greatest thing since since sliced bread.


Excellent point...... I do think they work though. So do extended warranties. But are they worth the investment? Only you can make that decision. Even a high end sports car can get a better set of tires.

[Larry Edgerton]

I will argue with anyone who says they have no value.

#1 reason. All of my European equipment comes with machined heavy pieces right from the factory, or at least SCMI, MiniMax, and OMGA, machines I own.

#2 The parts that come on most domestic name and import saws are a joke. Just because you have a precise arbor does not mean that an inferior stamped washer can not make your blade run out of true.

#3 Most have a larger diameter, but still do not get in the way as your stock washers do not usually come up to table height. Most of your cutting will not be at maximum cut, in fact in my shop almost never. So you can run a thin kerf with less tendency for blade wobble when pushed, and your low hp saw will therefore perform better as less HP is required.

I have a Powermatic 66 with a Freud set on it and and other than readjusting the curser on the fence there is no reason not to have them, and many reasons to have. Like I said, all of the better saw in the shop come with larger diameter machined pieces standard.

[Leonard Ratliff]

If you bought the type of "stiffeners" that come as a pair, you MUST use both parts. They are designed generally with a raised ring around the perimeter of one side. These raised areas grip the blade equally on both sides of the blade exerting equal force in the same part of the blade plate. If you don't use one of the stiffeners, you may exert force in diffeerent parts of the blade causing the blade to have slight cone shape. This is very bad for the blade and even worse for the quality of the saw cut.

The Forrest "stiffener" is only a flat plate where the whole plate rests against the blade plate. It's intent is to add spinning mass which, in theory, results in a better cut. Because it's a flat plate, it can be mounted singly on only one side of the blade.

So, in summary, if the "stiffeners" you have comes as a pair, you MUST use both. If the "stiffener" is a single plate, then you only need one. The ones that come as a pair will move the kerf necessitating changing your rip scale and making new zero clearence inserts.

Sorry to have to necro such an old thread, really, I apologize, but I felt like it was worth doing for the correction.

Single unit plates are stiffeners. If there are two parts, then it is a blade stabilizer, not a stiffener. While some might use the names interchangeably they are absolutely NOT the same thing. The do, to SOME degree, accomplish some of the same end results, but they do it in different ways and shouldn't be considered the same anymore than you'd consider your car and your truck to be the same despite the fact that they are both vehicles.

[Bernie Kopfer]

I have run blade stabilizers On my PM66 since I got it. I use them on with all blades except the dado set. Once the inserts are cut in and the aftermarket splitter is dialed in I’m not going to run any blade w/o the stabilizers. And since they don’t harm anything and might actually help a little, why not?

[Ron Selzer]

In my experience the cheaper built saws benefit from one. the higher end saws do not benefit
first start using one when had a very cheap saw now with the SawStop ICS see no benefit
Ron