Table saw vibration

[Brad Harper]

I bought a delta 36-979 table saw AS IS that appears new but a customer return but at a special low price..

It has a vibration problem that I would like to solve with your help...

I have read previous posts on this site about similar issues and I will include them here to facilitate the explanation.

The vibration occurs when the saw is turned on. Its not too bad until you crank the hand wheel for a miter cut then the pulley starts to flap and it sounds like a washing machine out of balance with the loudest sound in the table top near the front trunnion.

This vibration occurs with blade removed...

The pulleys are aligned using a square an they are dead spot on.

The belt is elephant brand, appears new with no defects...

The tension on the belt is 1/2" deflection with 20lb pressure(appx).
There is no free play on the arbor shaft and the bearings are good as it spins freely by hand with the pulley removed.
Vibration is least then the blade is brought to the 0 degree, most at 10 degree then mid range or low at miter angles beyond that.

With the miter angle at 10 degrees, the belt wobbles the most. I would say that the motor may be lifting and sinking about a quarter of an inch at each rotation of the pulley (I remove power and crank by hand).
Nothing is loose(all set screws tight) and no free play on anything (brackets, trunnion, etc) when I reach up under the table and grab things...
The pulleys are not stamped. The top pulley is a split pulley and the bottom is a solid piece, both iron or steel(I guess).

While the saw is running if I lift on the motor and take some of the tension off the belt the vibration is less.

If I remove the pulley and run the saw there is no vibration.


Below are some previous comments from a similar post about a year ago and my action in capital letters:

/******


.....
As previously stated check or replace the pulleys, make sure keys are seated in keyways, set screws are tight, motor mounts have no play etc.
HAVE NOT REPLACED PULLEYS, EVERYTHING ELSE DONE.
....

....
Durring my lunch, I used a bar to apply more downward pressure on the motor to tighten the belt
DONE. NO HELP.BELT TENSION ADJUSTED BY SLIDING MOTOR BACK.
....


How's the arbor runout? Have you tried switching blades? Does the saw vibrate with no blade installed? Does it still vibrate with the belt removed? These are all things that could help isolate the cause if the new belt doesn't cure it.
DONE NO HELP
....

.Make sure the pulleys are aligned with each other DONE. NO HELP
...

I have a two year old Delta contractor saw. I saw various threads about vibration and went with the link belt. I tried the LB first thinking I would start small and work my way up thru the machined pulleys
I WANT TO SOLVE CAUSE OF VIBRATION NOT PATCH UP A PROBLEM.
...

Replace your current pulleys with machined pulleys. stamped aluminum pulleys are rarely round, and the machined pulleys will eliminate the vibration caused by stamped pulleys.
I DO NOT HAVE STAMPED ALUMINUM PULLEYS, THEY ARE HEAVY IRON..BUT MAY NOT BE ROUND..
....

:confused:

****/

[Chris Harry]

Does it vibrate without the *belt* installed?

Is the trunion "catching" while you bevel the blade (in a way that it might end up cocked between the 2 tracks)? Maybe clean out the trunion tracks?

[Paul Atkins]

Sounds like the belt. I had a power steering belt on my truck that looked fine, but there was a knocking in the pump -replaced two pumps but a new belt solved the problem. Cheap belts are not worth the money.

[Brad Harper]

To answer:
"Does it vibrate without the *belt* installed?"

No it does not.(I stated this near bottom of original post).


To answer:
"Is the trunion "catching" while you bevel the blade (in a way that it might end up cocked between the 2 tracks)? Maybe clean out the trunion tracks?"

No, the trunnion does not catch, the assembly all moves very freely and all the tracks are clean.

[Brad Harper]

Sounds like the belt. I had a power steering belt on my truck that looked fine, but there was a knocking in the pump -replaced two pumps but a new belt solved the problem. Cheap belts are not worth the money.


Ok, 1 vote for the belt, even though:
1. It "looks" new and flawless
2.vibration is less(still not acceptable as the blade guard still rattles)l when bevel angle is 0 (belt is not flopping around much...)
3. vibration is huge when bevel angle 5-15 degrees... and medium beyond that...

[Lee Schierer]

I'm not familiar with your model saw, but your problem sounds like something is missing in the assembly or too tight. Most contractor type saws use the weight of the motor to tension the belt and the motor moves as you raise or lower the blade. You indicate the saw work fine when cutting at 90 degrees. As you start to anlge the cut the vibration starts. You need to first determine how the belt is intended to be tensioned. Once you understand how the tension is supposed to be applied you will discover the cause for the vibration when you tilt the blade.

Off hand I would think that the pivot on the motor mounting is binding so the motor cannot move when it needs to. In a gravity tension design, the motor is mounted on a hinged plate and the hinge should allow the motor to move freely through the entire range of hinge motion. If yours does not, you need to make it so it does. The pivot bolt should not be tight.

Changing out pullies and switching to a link belt will help you only when teh basic tension problem is solved.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Go get a Gates belt, and toss that one that you have. Lee's points about something amiss in the assembly are valid but it would take slack in something to make a vibration, and you would have noticed that already, right?

[Corey Wilcox]

Whether or not it's "the source" of the problem, I'd recommend that you replace the existing belt with a link belt. I did this with my saw, which also had some pretty serious vibration, and the difference was striking. Well worth the $26 I paid. Eliminating the belt as a contributing source of the vibration will help you find the main culprit.

[glenn bradley]

Most contractor type saws use the weight of the motor to tension the belt and the motor moves as you raise or lower the blade.

I'm glad you brought that up Lee. I am also confused about the statement "DONE. NO HELP.BELT TENSION ADJUSTED BY SLIDING MOTOR BACK." I am not familiar with this tensioning arrangement.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Is the saw put together properly? IMO, if the saw vibration changes when you tilt the blade, then I would think that something is not installed properly. Was it put together when you got it? I'm not sure the saw was assembled coprrectly if the store's 18 year old "service rep" assembled it properly. Or maybe the former owner put it together wrong. If you got the manual, try taking a look if anything appears to be installed wrong. That may be the reason the original customer returned it.

Tha being said, I would also changeout the belt to a link belt. MUCH smoother. ALL belts have a set to them and when that set goes around, it makes a little thump.

[Bill Wyko]

I have found that belts that sit for a long time will develop a "memory' for the spots that they make contact. This happened with my PM2000 drill press. In my case, running it for an hour smoothed it out. In your case, I'd go with a link belt. That should do it.:D

[Jason Hallowell]

With newer technologies making motors lighter and lighter, the gravity tensioned contractor saw design becomes less viable. Make sure the motor can pivot freely in all positions, and that it has enough weight to properly tension the belt even when tilted. I have a friend with a newer contractor style saw, and he had to hang a small weight on the motor to get proper tension when making bevel cuts. A link style belt would probably also help a lot.

[Brad Harper]

I'm glad you brought that up Lee. I am also confused about the statement "DONE. NO HELP.BELT TENSION ADJUSTED BY SLIDING MOTOR BACK." I am not familiar with this tensioning arrangement.

Glenn bradley stated:.
Durring my lunch, I used a bar to apply more downward pressure on the motor to tighten the belt",

Well, to tighten the belt on the Delta, you loosen 4 bolts of the motor and slide it to the rear, which tightens the belt. This is in the users manual for the saw.

[Brad Harper]

I have found that belts that sit for a long time will develop a "memory' for the spots that they make contact. This happened with my PM2000 drill press. In my case, running it for an hour smoothed it out. In your case, I'd go with a link belt. That should do it.:D


Two votes for the link belt.. and an explanation why the belt may be the cause.
I am starting to lean toward link belt replacement, but question whether the belt is the cause of the vibration rather than being the weak link in transmitting it ,especially since it is worse at bevel angle 5 degree's than at zero or on the higher side of 5 degrees. If it was the belt wouldn't it be always severe vibration?

[Brad Harper]

With newer technologies making motors lighter and lighter, the gravity tensioned contractor saw design becomes less viable. Make sure the motor can pivot freely in all positions, and that it has enough weight to properly tension the belt even when tilted. I have a friend with a newer contractor style saw, and he had to hang a small weight on the motor to get proper tension when making bevel cuts. A link style belt would probably also help a lot.

What is it about a link belt that is better than a standard v belt?:confused:
Does it absorb the vibration better thus not transmitting it to the frame?

[Jason Hallowell]

What is it about a link belt that is better than a standard v belt?:confused:
Does it absorb the vibration better thus not transmitting it to the frame?

Yes, it absorbs vibration much better, but equally if not more imprtant, it also doesn't have a memory like standard belts do. From what you describe, I don't think the belt is the only culprit in causing vibration, but a link belt will eliminate any vibration the belt was supplying from it's memory, as well as reduce the effect of whatever else is causing vibration.

[Brad Harper]

I'm not familiar with your model saw, but your problem sounds like something is missing in the assembly or too tight. Most contractor type saws use the weight of the motor to tension the belt and the motor moves as you raise or lower the blade. You indicate the saw work fine when cutting at 90 degrees. As you start to anlge the cut the vibration starts. You need to first determine how the belt is intended to be tensioned. Once you understand how the tension is supposed to be applied you will discover the cause for the vibration when you tilt the blade.

Off hand I would think that the pivot on the motor mounting is binding so the motor cannot move when it needs to. In a gravity tension design, the motor is mounted on a hinged plate and the hinge should allow the motor to move freely through the entire range of hinge motion. If yours does not, you need to make it so it does. The pivot bolt should not be tight.

Changing out pullies and switching to a link belt will help you only when teh basic tension problem is solved.

This is very insightful-"Only when the basic tension problem is solved" will the vibration problem be dealt with.. If I am interpreting correctly, what you are saying is if the belt maintains the correct tension throughout its travel will the vibration problem be solved.

I used this and put the bevel angle at the angle where vibration is worst. Then I ckd the tension. It appeared to be normal based on another post (appx. 1/2" deflection at mid point).
Not to be outdone, I tried more tension and less tension(adjusting the distance of the motor to the table as per manual) but the problem remained.
If, while the motor was running, I lifted it a little, the vibration to the table was less, but it appeared to be transmitted to me.

If, while the saw was at the 5 degree bevel, I adjusted the blade height, the vibration to the table would alter (more vibration near highest blade height up to the point the handwheel hits its stops and I lock the wheel).

When I increased the bevel angle the vibration slowly got better(less table chatter).

At the worst vibration point, if I put a can of WD40 on the fence guide on the motor side but out to the end(appx 3 feet), the can will vibrate enough to fall off the saw.

At the least vibration(bevel angle 45 or 0 with blade all the way up and the handwheels locked, I can stand a nickel on end (near the blade) and it will remain there.. BUT it will still fall off if placed on the fence guide on motor side...

[William Powell]

I looked the manual up out of curiosity. The weight of motor provides the tension on the belt as stated pg 15 sentence 5. You may wish to reread the sections on installing the motor to the machine.

If the pulley guards and such are mounted I would remove until source of trouble is determined.

Prior to going to the time and expense of a link belt, I would suggest a trip to a large auto parts store and buy a quality v-belt for 4-5 dollars. I understand they should be replaced annually anyway. The brand new ones with my jointer were bad. Auto parts store replacements resulted in almost no vibration.

Bill

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Cheapest easiest option is a new belt
After that I'd start looking for:
Engine mount improper
Belt Tension method improper
Trunnion mount improper

All the while I'd be thinking "there's a bolt or nut loose or missing.

[Brad Harper]

Go get a Gates belt, and toss that one that you have. Lee's points about something amiss in the assembly are valid but it would take slack in something to make a vibration, and you would have noticed that already, right?

3 votes for the belt. I think it will be my first choice as it is the least expensive starting point.

[Brad Harper]

I looked the manual up out of curiosity. The weight of motor provides the tension on the belt as stated pg 15 sentence 5. You may wish to reread the sections on installing the motor to the machine.

If the pulley guards and such are mounted I would remove until source of trouble is determined.

Prior to going to the time and expense of a link belt, I would suggest a trip to a large auto parts store and buy a quality v-belt for 4-5 dollars. I understand they should be replaced annually anyway. The brand new ones with my jointer were bad. Auto parts store replacements resulted in almost no vibration.

Bill

I agree the weight of the motor "SITTING ON THE ADJUSTABLE MOUNT" provides tension to the belt. BUT more tension will be applied if the motor is slid back on the mounting plate... Look at it like sitting on a see saw, the farther back you sit the more you can lift... Refer to page 14 of the Delta Instruction manual under Motor to motor mounting plate: the following
Note: Loosely tighten the hex nuts for further adjustment....
...
this means once you mount the motor to the saw you do further adjustment...

I do appreciate your time and help... and advice on getting a quality V belt.. I will give that a try and let you know what happens... as you are the fourth person to recommend this...and backed it up with it worked for you...:)

[Brad Harper]

Cheapest easiest option is a new belt
After that I'd start looking for:
Engine mount improper
Belt Tension method improper
Trunnion mount improper

All the while I'd be thinking "there's a bolt or nut loose or missing.

OK... I replaced the belt with a new one from Auto Zone.

THE VIBRATION PROBLEM IS STILL THERE-just as bad....but not worse....Its like a table chatter forward of the blade....but the worst vibration can be felt near the rear fence guide closest to the motor...:confused:

[Brad Harper]

Go get a Gates belt, and toss that one that you have. Lee's points about something amiss in the assembly are valid but it would take slack in something to make a vibration, and you would have noticed that already, right?

I replaced belt with new one and vibration STILL THERE.:(

[Michael Pyron]

have you checked to see if the spindle the blade spins on is wacked? i.e. possibly bad bearings, possible warped/bent

try taking the belt off and spinning the blade by hand and see if you notice it moving out of plane..

[William Powell]

OK... I replaced the belt with a new one from Auto Zone.

THE VIBRATION PROBLEM IS STILL THERE-just as bad....but not worse....Its like a table chatter forward of the blade....but the worst vibration can be felt near the rear fence guide closest to the motor...:confused:
Earlier it was stated that the tension was checked and the belt found to have 1/2" of play. Actually the motor should be hanging freely and you really can't check the tension in that manner. Unless it has some sort of soft-start, it will try to climb the belt when first started. Then, as the arbor and blade come up to speed, it will settle down. Insure the motor can swing freely. It must be able to move as the arbor is moved up and down.

Else, there are things out of round.

Bill

[Brad Harper]

Earlier it was stated that the tension was checked and the belt found to have 1/2" of play. Actually the motor should be hanging freely and you really can't check the tension in that manner. Unless it has some sort of soft-start, it will try to climb the belt when first started. Then, as the arbor and blade come up to speed, it will settle down. Insure the motor can swing freely. It must be able to move as the arbor is moved up and down.

Else, there are things out of round.

Bill
You are correct, it was stated the belt had 1/2" tension but it also said at 20 lbs pressure (approximate) by pressing together in middle of belt using thumb and pinky...
This is useful information in case the motor mount plate is frozen to the frame(the spring pins are rusted) in which case much more pressure would be required to "lift the motor". I could have used a portable fish scale to accomplish the same measurement... as you stated "Ensure the motor can swing freely"..

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Seems like yout tried everthing. I would bet that the saw is assembled incorrectly. Could even be something the factory did.

You did say that you checked the keys and pulleys to be tight didn't you?

[Brad Harper]

have you checked to see if the spindle the blade spins on is wacked? i.e. possibly bad bearings, possible warped/bent

try taking the belt off and spinning the blade by hand and see if you notice it moving out of plane..

1.The spindle spins freely by hand.
I looked to see if it was moving out of plane as I spun it and it "appeared" to be balanced by visual ck only. I base this on observing the shaft against a white paper with a horizontal line drawn on it taped directly behind it. ...Then spin shaft and observe any deflection from horizontal line. With a flick of the wrist he shaft spins about 5 rotations before it slowly halts. Grabbing the shaft and attempting to move it in a horizontal or vertical direction results in zero movement. (At 5 degree bevel or any other bevel this is true...)

Note:
I did observe some minor deflection of the split pulley attached to the shaft(I had removed it for above test first to rule out the shaft), so it could be the pulley deflects too much and is causing the problem(I estimate about 1mm upward deflection of pulley on each rotation)... If this is too much I will replace, but how much is too much? The belt itself deflects 1" or more at its midpoint during operation at the most severe vibration point(bevel angle 5 degrees) but then deflects appx. 1/2" (midpoint of belt) at bevel angle of 0 degrees or bevel angle 15 degrees and more...
1.What is it about 5 degree bevel that transmits so much wobble(belt to table interaction)?
2. Would a pulley with that was wobbly somehow be able to create more belt wobble at 5 degrees than at any other angle-even though there is no more apparent slop in the assy. at that position than any other as it moves it through its 45 degree "orbit"?

[Brad Harper]

Seems like yout tried everthing. I would bet that the saw is assembled incorrectly. Could even be something the factory did.

You did say that you checked the keys and pulleys to be tight didn't you?

Yes I did check the keys and pulleys to be tight (I used allen wrench to vfy). I removed each pulley and verified key placement. I even "flipped each pulley around to see if the vibration occured at other than 5 degrees bevel, but that was unchanged.

You may be on to something about factory assembly...
Now I have a detailed parts list (with diagrams) and I am going through to verify placement and if any collar or washer and etc. is missing. So far nothing... One thing that caught my attention was that perhaps the elevating shaft assy. or the tilt shaft assy. is some how not properly interfaced with the tie bar(s) that connect to the front and rear trunnions. But, the whole assembly does not seem to wobble(using hands to grab it) any more at 5 degress than at 45 degrees(or anywhere inbetween), and the handwheels move the blade and the motor with ease through all bevel angles, while keeping the belt alignment true.
Now after running the saw for several minutes, the belt and pulleys are very warm to the touch, BUT no warmer than my Hitachi 10" table saw belt/pulleys when run same amount of time...
The thing that catches my attention is that the vibration causes the front handwheel to rattle unless I grasp it with my hand or raise the blade all the way up(or down). At the upper or lower position somehow the noise goes away but there is still vibration if the side handwheel is set to 5-15 degree bevel.:confused:

[Alan Schwabacher]

Could the belt be the wrong size? The belt tension is maintained by the weight of the motor, but the force on the belt depends on both the length of the lever arm (adjusted by sliding the bolts) and the angle that arm makes from the hinge. If the belt is too short, it will hold the motor up too high to get enough force on the belt. One of the other advantages of a link belt is that you can adjust its length by adding or removing links.

But something sounds seriously wrong if you have that much vibration. Maybe the cradle that holds the works is loose between the trunnions. You should be able to push hard in any direction without any trace of movement in the semicircular slots unless you turn the crank. If that's it, loosening the bolts that hold the trunnions to the table, clamping each trunnion to the cradle, realigning the blade parallel to the miter slot, and tightening the bolts might help. Unfortunately, this does require realignment, which usually takes a few tries to get right.

Without the belt in place, I presume (and you probably told us -- sorry) that all pulleys turn smoothly with no wobble. It might be worth clamping a stick that just barely touches each pulley, and turning it to make sure there's no measurable deviation from round or side to side on any of the rotating parts.

Or maybe some bolt is missing or misplaced somewhere.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

What is it about a link belt that is better than a standard v belt?:confused:
Does it absorb the vibration better thus not transmitting it to the frame?


I strongly believe that it's not better. Others will disagree. Any good quality belt will be an improvement. I don't like link belts because they don't wear as long as a good v belt. On my farm, and ones where I worked previously, we deal with MANY belts. Link belts where a fad in the 80's in ag, but you see none of them any more, for good reason. Longevity is not good, cost is higher than a better quality real belt, and I think that most of the hype surrounding these things comes from woodworkers replacing a belt that has a set with a link belt, and assuming that the link belt fixed the problem better than anything else would have.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Brad, do you have a dial indicator? Sounds like you have something out of round, and that would find it.

[Brad Harper]

Alan S. stated:

"Could the belt be the wrong size?"]This could be possible, as the belt that came is not a factory OEM.
The number of the belt should be 49-034 and is # 224 on the below diagram.
Going to order one there is no detailed description as to its needed length(see:
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/belt-p-89151.html )


As was also mentioned
there probably something seriously wrong.
I agree...
I intend to start disassembly on the unit and try to nail it down... If thats what needs to be done...


120004

[Brad Harper]

Brad, do you have a dial indicator? Sounds like you have something out of round, and that would find it.

Good point.
I may end up borrowing/buying a caliper for inside/outside msmts... Right now I am just using a compass and mini ruler.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Link belts supposed to be used on small HP stuff. It's on their disclaimer. Agricultural equipment is too big. Or maybe because it burned itself out on big equipment, they changed and said it's for small HP applications. I can see why it would NOT hold up to big stuff. I had it on my TS for a long time and still have it on my drill press. I think it makes an unbelievable difference in smoothness. I was about to change out my rough TS, but after changing to a link belt, I used it for a LONG time. Maybe not for a wheat combine or a flail.....

[Bruce Wrenn]

At our local wood working club, I use my Delta model 10 saw to demonstrate. It has cast iron sheaves (Browning brand). I put a new Goodyear Power Flex belt on the saw, and it vibrates. I then put a link belt on the saw, and the vibration disappears. Link belts were originally designed to be used as a temporary fix. HVAC guys could just carry a roll on the truck, and get unit up and running till correct belt could be located and installed. Customer had heat / air conditioning in the mean time.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Link belts supposed to be used on small HP stuff. It's on their disclaimer. Agricultural equipment is too big. Or maybe because it burned itself out on big equipment, they changed and said it's for small HP applications. I can see why it would NOT hold up to big stuff. I had it on my TS for a long time and still have it on my drill press. I think it makes an unbelievable difference in smoothness. I was about to change out my rough TS, but after changing to a link belt, I used it for a LONG time. Maybe not for a wheat combine or a flail.....


Kyle, the major use of these in ag where for grain and material handling. That is usually a job done by pretty small motors running augers or coveyers. 3 to 5hp generally, consistant loads. Sound familier?;) I wish combines and the like would take a $26 belt anywhere! There are four $1200 belts on various pieces of machinery in the shed, and a huge pile of $500 belts. Everything is serpantine for the smaller equipment uses these days.

I think that the reason that links belts failed in ag, is that the duty cycle is just too much. They may run a long time on a drill press that runs one hour per day if it's being used heavily, but material transfer that runs 18 hour per day really illustrated the designs weaknesses quickly.

Nothing against you folks that like them, its just that I don't.

[Fred Belknap]

If it is a Delta contractor type saw give it a wax job and put it in a yard sale. I couldn't even sell mine. Thinking of parting it out.
Fred

[Brad Harper]

I am the person who posted this problem.
I now have a link to pictures and movies of the saw in action (making noise, being quiet) because someone requested them for further information.

In the movie my assistant adjusts the miter angle as I film the saw...
You can see the belt start to jump and hear the table to "knock" at the early stages of the miter(5 degrees).. but lessen at other angles...
Perhaps this will help someone recommend what to ck... or what to do...

See below:
http://webpages.charter.net/ceramicbrad/delta/


I will leave this link up for a couple of weeks if possible(till 6/21/2009)..

Thanks for all your comments,suggestions, and taking time to answer me...:)

[Brad Harper]

At our local wood working club, I use my Delta model 10 saw to demonstrate. It has cast iron sheaves (Browning brand). I put a new Goodyear Power Flex belt on the saw, and it vibrates. I then put a link belt on the saw, and the vibration disappears. Link belts were originally designed to be used as a temporary fix. HVAC guys could just carry a roll on the truck, and get unit up and running till correct belt could be located and installed. Customer had heat / air conditioning in the mean time.

So it may be that the belt is the wrong size. I posted a video of my saw and its noise recently in this thread. Perhaps you could look at it and see if it changes your opinion.
In the interim, I will contact Delta to get the correct size of belt needed, so as to be sure it is correct. I prefer not a temporary fix to vibration, as, if something mechanical is wrong I could mask it by using a link belt and the problem could get worse as time goes on.

[Alan Schwabacher]

Here's how I would summarize what I can see in the videos. When the blade is tilted sufficiently, it sounds OK. When it approaches vertical, it sounds as if some part of the mechanism is seriously loose. When it's cranked fully vertical against the stop, that tightens it up and the noise returns to normal.

If that is correct, it could be the weight of the motor helps to hold the loose link in place when it's tilted, and when it's cranked against the stop it also does. One thing you might try is to put the (unplugged) saw at an angle that would cause noise if it were on, and then clamp the cradle to the trunnion. If it becomes quiet when you run it, you have identified a loose point.

[Brad Harper]

Here's how I would summarize what I can see in the videos. When the blade is tilted sufficiently, it sounds OK. When it approaches vertical, it sounds as if some part of the mechanism is seriously loose. When it's cranked fully vertical against the stop, that tightens it up and the noise returns to normal.

If that is correct, it could be the weight of the motor helps to hold the loose link in place when it's tilted, and when it's cranked against the stop it also does. One thing you might try is to put the (unplugged) saw at an angle that would cause noise if it were on, and then clamp the cradle to the trunnion. If it becomes quiet when you run it, you have identified a loose point.

I will clamp the cradle to the trunnion and apply power. Will post results.

The vibration went away when I clamped here:
http://webpages.charter.net/ceramicbrad/delta/fixed.JPG




The vibration remained when I clamped here:

http://webpages.charter.net/ceramicbrad/delta/no fix1.JPG (http://webpages.charter.net/ceramicbrad/delta/no%20fix1.JPG)

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I stand corrected on link belts......... Maybe they aren't designed for continuous work, and a TS VERY seldomly runs continuously. Lots of starts and stops to let the belt cool down. I rarely run my drill press for more than 15 - 20 minutes at a time..... And that's for teh small drum sander attachment.

I do like them though.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I'd get a long screwdriver and place the end against the Trunnion right against the shaft housing and elsewhere to see if the noise was coming from that specific location. Press you ear against the handle end of the screwdriver. It's a pretty good way to locate the sources of noises.

Take both Pulleys off the saw and check them and the arbors. you might find one has a loose or missing set screw or Key.


Break the shaft arbor assembly down. Take the Bearings out. See if the even fit correctly. Spin them in your hands and feel them for screwy vibrations.

[Chip Lindley]

Brad, in the early '90s I refurbished an ugly, rusty Rockwell Model 10 CS, which is basically still the same saw you have. I used an article in FFW #78, p.69, to guide me through dismantling the saw for cleaning and painting, reassembling and adjusting. For reference, get an exploded parts diagram for your saw if you don't already have one.

Sounds like the trunnions are not adjusted snuggly to disallow any racking motion when the saw is tilted. That article suggested using a pipe clamp to hold the trunnions and saw carriage firmly together while bolting it all to the top. There should be no slop or play between the trunnions and carriage. In addition, was suggested to replacing the trunnion bolts with hardened Grade 8, so extra torque could be applied for secure attachment. Your new saw is not worn at all, but only needs a complete adjustment to bring it up to *specs*!

IF you do not have access to FWW Archives or Online, PM me with your email, and I will send the article, as well as I could capture it, since FWW only allows printing of the Archive pages.

[Brad Harper]

Brad, in the early '90s I refurbished an ugly, rusty Rockwell Model 10 CS, which is basically still the same saw you have. I used an article in FFW #78, p.69, to guide me through dismantling the saw for cleaning and painting, reassembling and adjusting. For reference, get an exploded parts diagram for your saw if you don't already have one.

Sounds like the trunnions are not adjusted snuggly to disallow any racking motion when the saw is tilted. That article suggested using a pipe clamp to hold the trunnions and saw carriage firmly together while bolting it all to the top. There should be no slop or play between the trunnions and carriage. In addition, was suggested to replacing the trunnion bolts with hardened Grade 8, so extra torque could be applied for secure attachment. Your new saw is not worn at all, but only needs a complete adjustment to bring it up to *specs*!

IF you do not have access to FWW Archives or Online, PM me with your email, and I will send the article, as well as I could capture it, since FWW only allows printing of the Archive pages.


I received the information on adjusting the trunnion. Page 2 of the FWW archives(via pmail) provided enough information for me to adjust the BACKLASH(as it states). I loosened up a locknut and turned the eccentric until there was no more play between the tilt shaft assy(#261 on my part drawing) and the front trunnion(#250).

Originally when I checked for free-play, the motor and belt were still hooked up to the arbor(at the bevel angle of greatest vibration) and I could not sense any looseness by hand. BUT, by removing the motor and pulley, I felt slop between the trunnion and the tilt shaft mechanism! So this is what I failed to do-thus I could not locate the cause of the vibration!

Well, I had the parts list for my saw and using page 22 of the user manual I performed the BACKLASH ADJUSTMENT for the BLADE TILTING MECHANISM.

AFTER performing this 30 minute adjustment(I did not have to remove the table or anything, just the motor and belt- THE VIBRATION PROBLEM IS FIXED!!!

Thank you all for your help and many thanks to the web site for allowing this to happen....

[Barry Vabeach]

Brad, glad you got it fixed. I was watching on the sidelines hoping with the video that you posted someone here would know exactly what was wrong.