If you were to design your own wood lathe... [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Mark Norman

06-03-2009, 3:15 PM

Primarily for bowls and decent size HF's, what features would you want in the machine?

A large turning capacity and powerful motor with variable speed of course. How big is big enough? I don't think there would be a need for more than three horsepower or it would be offered on the machines currently available.

With being able to either turn the headstock or sliding it to the end of the ways, many machines have a huge diameter capacity but for the most part a 24" swing seems to be plenty.

Obviously weight is a consideration as it needs to be stable especially with out of balance blanks. but how heavy is heavy enough?

Versatility is a factor as well as cost. The stubby is very versatile but at a cost beyond what most of us can afford.

The PM, OneWay and Robust all seem to be awesome machines but what features are most important to you? What others are there that are comparable?

I know its a lot of questions for one post but I was hoping to start a dialogue on this subject in hopes to better my own design.

Just wondering...

Gordon Seto

06-03-2009, 4:21 PM

For a dedicated bowl lathe, you may want to borrow some idea from this one :
http://hegner.co.uk/pages/VB36_Lathes/vb36_lathes.html
2 & 1/2" diameter spindle ....
This is not the lathe for everybody, even money is no object.
The bottom of 2nd page:
" Another piece, this time commissioned by the "Worshipful Company of Turners" for the 400th anniversary of the guild, was turned at the Stoneleigh Exhibition in September this year by Stephen Cooper. (Finished weight: ¼ ton approx. Height 4'6" by 4' diameter.)"

jason lambert

06-03-2009, 4:35 PM

I personally really like the one way runs and has brass handles etc. However I love my powermatic the sliding headstock is key, it takes less room I can put the work where I want it or slide it off the end for big bowls or platters.

Other nice features is a digital read out for speed something I miss on others. Some storage onthe lathe like the tail stock has onthe powermatic. Maybe a feature to roll it around if necessory like the one way so you can store it agenst a wall. Alot of us work out of a gurage. Indexing is a must. Reverse is a must. Digital spped control that keeps it at speed no matter what the load is, it is quite apperent when a lathe doesn't have this.

sascha gast

06-03-2009, 5:00 PM

if there wasn't a stubby, I would invent it, it has everything I need, but I would love to add a 2436 and that's just so I could have one, but for bowls and HF's, Stubby 1000 all the way, 44" swing is plenty, but the swing bed is just amazing

Wally Dickerman

06-03-2009, 5:00 PM

I have a Oneway because it has most of the features that I want in a lathe.

The lathe that I would design would have lots of weight.

It would have a built in sand reservoir that would hold at least 400 lb. of sand. There should be an easy way to remove the sand.

It would have a good outboard bed (My Oneway does and I do much of my turning there..I'm a lefty). Second choice would be a sliding headstock.

Electronic variable speed

An indexing wheel. 48 stops is okay.

Reverse is a must. To go along with that it must have a hardened spindle with a groove for locking on a chuck of faceplate. (Again, my Oneway has that)

A good strong spindle lock is a must.

A movable on-off switch with a magnet that can be attached to any flat spot on the lathe. When I'm turning HF"s I have mine on the end of the OB bed. When both hands are busy, I can bump it with my hip to stop the lathe

A 24 inch swing is more than enough for almost any turner.

A hub to make an oversize wood handwheel. Once you get used to that it becomes a must.

With a 24 inch swing a 3 HP motor is ample.

It must be very quiet. Can't hear the music otherwise.

I like the ramp-down feature on my Oneway. It can be set to stop the spindle in either 4 seconds or 11 seconds. (The longer setting is so that a heavy piece won't spin itself off the lathe from a sudden stop)

If a lot of wet wood is to be turned, a stainless steel bed is good.

Why not some good built-in lights.

A built-in dust hood that is retractable, with a good hook-up for a DC

Some built-in retractable wheels would be a good option.

Given some time I can come with a few more goodies. I'm turning on my 9th lathe right now. Each one has been an improvement over the previous lathe. The first one was in 1936.

Wally

Mark Norman

06-03-2009, 5:58 PM

Some great stuff there wally!

The spindle lock and work lights are something I figgured out right away.

Built in wheels to make it mobile will be added to the design as well as provisions for a handwheel for the spindle. Thanks for the input.

I got the heavy and quiet part down pat and allthough there is a lot of sand in it there is no way to remove it:p

Scott Hackler

06-03-2009, 6:41 PM

Although I anm fairly new to turning, I cant imagine not having the option of using a tailstock. I use it with large, wet, out of balance blanks and with a jam chuck for the tenon removal.

Hollow legs with the capacity to add sand would be great. You could always shop vac the sand back out if you need to move the lathe.

Reverse is a must, I use my reverse to sand AND to hollow out the left side of my work (sometimes).

For the captured hollowing guys, you have to have a bed, or the option to quickly attach one.

without a dedicated bed, a swing way arm that doubles as the banjo would be great. Although I dont know how strong it would be unless made from 2" solid stock.

I wouldnt want bolted on lights. I want to buy the lights I want and mount them to the wall, ceiling or lathe.

Brian McInturff

06-03-2009, 7:33 PM

One thing about weight, using sand, and the spindle bearings. The bearings usually aren't made to take the downward force that catches and spinning large out balance pieces create. The catches we control by getting better. The out of balance spinning is another issue though. When the lathe starts vibrating, walking across the floor that is a sign to slow it down. Not only is it moving around on you but think of the forces being placed on the bearings. Now, weight all that down with additional sand or bolt it to the floor and what happens. It quits dancing around but the forces are still being placed on the bearings. So, where am I going with this? If you are going to add mass to the lathe then make sure the spindle and bearings are oversized from normal to accommodate the added force. That is why the VB36 can handle such large heavy pieces. Their bearings float in oil. No stress on the bearings. I look at any vibration from my Stubby as an early warning device and head that warning. I really wouldn't want to add any additional weight to it for damping vibration.

Jim Kountz

06-03-2009, 8:00 PM

For me the sliding headstock is not a necessary thing, I do alot of coring and the system needs a good amount of length on the ways so I dont care so much about that. My lathe does have it but I have never used it for that reason alone mainly.
Now if one was just doing large bowls and such I can see where it would be a valuable thing.
My eye has been and will continue to be on the Oneway 2436. For me personally that lathe has it all. Plenty of diameter, plenty of length and the mass to make it work. Throw in provisions for vacuum chucking and the quality and its a win win. My second choice would be the PM 4224 and along with that the Vicmarc lathes. All within reach of someone saving for a year or two.........ok maybe longer for me!!

Richard Madison

06-03-2009, 9:42 PM

Ok, more freebee engineering help. Wally's spindle lock should be easy to operate, lock at ANY point of spindle rotation as well as at predetermined points, REMAIN locked until released, and of course include a motor-start lockout and a warning light (LED) indicating that the spindle lock was ON.

Mark Norman

06-03-2009, 9:54 PM

How about a disc brake off an early model Volvo? :eek:

Good insight on the vibration as an indicator Brian. Just as well I would want the weight to counter when turning real big out of balance stuff.

Jim. I cant wait till I can afford a coring set up much less a 2436 Oneway. I can see I will have to review all the replies at least a few times when I go to build my next machine.

Thanks for the input. It all helps to direct where I am going.

Richard Madison

06-03-2009, 9:58 PM

Electric disc brake would work, but would require tie-in with the tach to prevent operation unless the spindle was stationary. Might have a limited duty cycle.

Mark Norman

06-03-2009, 10:15 PM

Electric disc brake would work, but would require tie-in with the tach to prevent operation unless the spindle was stationary. Might have a limited duty cycle.

That's realy not a bad idea Richard. Now yer thinkin! I'll ponder that idea some.

Wally Dickerman

06-03-2009, 10:20 PM

Reed Gray

06-03-2009, 10:20 PM

Well, for a dedicated bowl lathe, the VB36, no question for me, but for all round work, every set up of it I saw still says 'bowl lathe' to me. Most sturdy design. The steel bed and ways of the Robust and Oneway do pick up some harmonic vibrations/noise, but not really a big factor. A sliding headstock is a necessity unless you don't mind bending over the bed of the lathe, or have room for outboard turning. No problem coring with it at the far end, and I have all 3 coring systems. If you haven't tried sliding the headstock down, you really need to try it. I wouldn't want attached mobility unless I had to move the lathe a lot. It would be in the way. The Robust set up is sweet. Robust has the switch box on a cord and it can be placed anywhere, on the body of the lathe. I keep it on the headstock. On the body of the lathe, I have to bend down to get to it. I also always use the left hand to reach for it as my tool is in the other hand, and having had the PM for 8 years, I am used to it there. One big thing on the Robust is the telescoping legs. You can set it for any height in 2 inch increments. Had one guy at the workshop with the Battys, and he has to raise his PM 5 inches. Only way to do that is with boards. 3 hp is plenty, and 20 or more inches is fine. 3 phase with an inverter for variable speed, 2 speed ranges is okay, 3 is better, I could even use 4 some times. I would like to see an easy belt changing system: release tension, pull a lever like changing bike gears, then set tension and turn. No opening doors and hand moving the belts. If you are planning on turning bowls bigger than 18 inches, you are entering a specialty market. You would really do well with the VB36 as it is best equipped to handle stuff that size, or make your own. Check out the thread about the concrete lathe.

robo hippy

Mark Norman

06-03-2009, 10:26 PM

Yer kidding right Reed? LOL

Brian McInturff

06-03-2009, 10:34 PM

:eek::eek:
That's funny!!
I think Reed has been to busy:D

Mark Norman

06-03-2009, 10:42 PM

:eek::eek:
That's funny!!
I think Reed has been to busy:D
I'm not sure he made the connection...I had to play on it of course:D

Thanks for the input Reed. I will consider all the comments as I start the design on my next machine.

Jim Kountz

06-03-2009, 11:18 PM

A sliding headstock is a necessity unless you don't mind bending over the bed of the lathe, or have room for outboard turning. No problem coring with it at the far end, and I have all 3 coring systems. If you haven't tried sliding the headstock down, you really need to try it.

robo hippy

Reed when coring what is the advantage of sliding the headstock?? Do you gain some stability or something by having the headstock more in the center of the ways? I have the Woodcut Bowl Saver and its a totally from the side operation. In fact if I were standing at the end of the lathe it would be awkward to use it. Just wundern!!

Dick Strauss

06-03-2009, 11:32 PM

Jim,
I think Reed is saying that it is easier to core when you can move the coring tools straight in from the end of the lathe rather than having to bend over at an angle (I think?).

Mark,
I'd prefer a tailstock if possible. I don't always want to use a faceplate.

I'd suggest a machined flat or hole to accept the set screw on the headstock spindle (after the threading is done of course).

3 hp/3ph should be plenty strong...you can ramp up and down speeds with better VFDs. You can also add a braking resistor to help slow the load faster.

If you had an indexing wheel, you could use it for the spindle lock. If you made the locking pin long enough, you could locate the motor disable switch on the opposite side of the indexing disc. What I have a vision of is that the pin woudl pass through the indexing disc and trigger the switch on the back side. It could be a pin with wings. The pin with wings would allow for insertion and locking with a quarter turn.

HF rigs usually use either a tailstock or bed as its support.

Reed Gray

06-04-2009, 4:51 AM

I don't think there is any advantage to a sliding headstock when coring with any of the 3 systems, and I have them all. The main difference is in turning and not having the bed of the lathe in the way. You don't have to lean, and can keep the tool handles close to your body. With the Woodcut, since you have to have the tailstock hooked up to it, you have to place the headstock back farther than with the Oneway or McNaughton.

robo hippy

curtis rosche

06-04-2009, 8:41 AM

i think what you have is good. but there was a lathe kinda like yours on a carolina craigslist. it was kinda a big block of concrete, and then there was a partial bed for a toolrest. it was 2 peices of angle iron imbeded in the concrete.

the only thing i could think of to modify, would be to either make it so that the lathe can easily be made heavier. or make a bunch on nuts sunk into the lathe base, so that it can be anchored to the floor.

and make a large steady rest, using tires.

i think that for a really low speed, it should be gear driven then have a tool that mounts to the toolrest, then you could hog off as much as you wan and have no stopping or slippage. then again, that what chainsaws are for.

Jim Kountz

06-04-2009, 9:15 AM

Jim,
I think Reed is saying that it is easier to core when you can move the coring tools straight in from the end of the lathe rather than having to bend over at an angle (I think?).

Well no that wouldnt work at all Dick, the systems are used from the side. At least my Woodcut System is. In fact it would be really awkward to use it standing at the end of the lathe facing the headstock. Then you WOULD be bending around to the side to advance the cutter. Again this is with the Woodcut. Reed replied to this and cleared up his point though and yes for just bowl turning or HF there is an advantage to the sliding headstock, I just havent tried it myself. No wonder my back hurts!!:eek::eek:
Im going to give it a try though and see what all the fuss is about.
Ive always gone the way of David Marks and just sit right on the ways sometimes, but Im just lazy that way!!

Tony Kahn

06-04-2009, 9:20 AM

Check out the thread about the concrete lathe.

robo hippy

He is the one that made the concrete lathe, i think he is already gearing up for 2nd generation. I don't know if he is stuck in a turning vortex or a concrete vortex, either way the process is fascinating and educational.

Wally Dickerman

06-04-2009, 10:51 AM

Reed when coring what is the advantage of sliding the headstock?? Do you gain some stability or something by having the headstock more in the center of the ways? I have the Woodcut Bowl Saver and its a totally from the side operation. In fact if I were standing at the end of the lathe it would be awkward to use it. Just wundern!!

One huge advantage to having a sliding headstock (or on my lathe, an outboard bed) is that when hollowing HF's with a hand held tool, such as my Stewart tool, it's necessary to stand facing the piece. Until recently, lathes were designed for spindle turning. The advent of the sliding headstock gave turners a combination spindle and bowl or HF lathe.

Wally

Jim Kountz

06-04-2009, 11:36 AM

One huge advantage to having a sliding headstock (or on my lathe, an outboard bed) is that when hollowing HF's with a hand held tool, such as my Stewart tool, it's necessary to stand facing the piece. Until recently, lathes were designed for spindle turning. The advent of the sliding headstock gave turners a combination spindle and bowl or HF lathe.

Wally

Right, I got all that but the question was concerning coring, not HF's which as I stated earlier Reed has already replied and clarified that.
I fully understand the concept when doing a regular bowl or HF, I thought Reed was saying there was an advantage to sliding the headstock when coring. Thats what my question was all about.

curtis rosche

06-04-2009, 1:32 PM

it should also have a key fob to start like fancy cars. no key, but it wont run unless its in your pocket.

Don Orr

06-04-2009, 1:57 PM

I think mine would have to have a custom graphic paint job and some cup holders and lots of chrome !:eek:

What I really need for a lathe is more time to use one.:D;)

Lots of good suggestions so far.

Mark Norman

06-04-2009, 2:55 PM

He is the one that made the concrete lathe, i think he is already gearing up for 2nd generation. I don't know if he is stuck in a turning vortex or a concrete vortex, either way the process is fascinating and educational.

You are exactly right Tony, I'm working on the finishing up of my first one and planning on ways to make the next model better. I was sitting on the machine with a notepad making notes of what I would do diffrent on my next attempt. And my mind wandered into thhe shallow water that is the creek and thought I would go through the thread again and see what comments I missed that would inspire improvements in the design. Then I came in to do just that when instead I posted this question to you all.

I have the steel to use to fabricate the ways and my welder friend is comming up this weekend to weld the steel together for me.

Now what I am in need of is a tailstock, I can fabricate a banjo and tool rest fairly easily but I would rather get a tail stock from another machine that has 24" swing.

Anyone here have an extra tailstock ya would let go cheap? I'll trade some walnut burl for one:D:D

Thank you all for your input, I will consider every piece of advice when building the beta model.

On another note, I have been turning but my success has been rather limited and I won't wast time posting my failures. I do have a few roughed out bowls drying in paper bags on the bakers rack and when I finish them up I will share with you for sure.

Reed Gray

06-04-2009, 5:24 PM

Did you guys miss the thread running on here for the last 2 months or so about the lathe with concrete for the headstock mount? Really interesting, a couple hundred posts on it. Really!
robo hippy

Reed Gray

06-04-2009, 5:28 PM

Hmmmm, what would Tim the Tool Man Taylor build? V8? Transmission?
robo hippy

Mark Norman

06-04-2009, 6:45 PM

Did you guys miss the thread running on here for the last 2 months or so about the lathe with concrete for the headstock mount? Really interesting, a couple hundred posts on it. Really!
robo hippy

Ya know Reed, I think I saw that post........

(It was I who built the concrete lathe;))

Jim Kountz

06-04-2009, 10:19 PM

Did you guys miss the thread running on here for the last 2 months or so about the lathe with concrete for the headstock mount? Really interesting, a couple hundred posts on it. Really!
robo hippy

Reed?? Come on guy you're the one not getting the joke here. Mark Norman, the guy who started THIS thread IS the guy who built the lathe you're talking about. Yes the concrete lathe, Mark Norman built it.