PDA

View Full Version : Paying For College!



Nate Carey
06-02-2009, 6:10 PM
My daughter graduates from HS next week; in August she enters the University of New Hampshire's Pre-Vet program. She's had the dream of becoming a large animal vet since age 6 (+/-) and has not wavered from that goal.

Her mother and I started early "putting money away" in mutual funds in preparation for the day she would start college...

...you all know what has happened to that fund over the last year. It's happened to all of us.

My wife and I have, during the last 7 or 8 months, tried to get as creative as possible in coming up with ways to re-build that college fund...but I'll bet we have only scratched the surface of possibilities. We are open to suggestions...

Cliff Rohrabacher
06-02-2009, 6:26 PM
My daughter graduates from HS next week; in August she enters the University of New Hampshire's Pre-Vet program. She's had the dream of becoming a large animal vet since age 6 (+/-) and has not wavered from that goal.

That's such a lovely goal. Have you had a conversation with her about what her day job will be? I've known a lot of vets who just can't seem to bring in the money they hoped for.

Maybe a double major in Accounting?

The only big animal Vets I've known about who were earning up to their potential were sought after specialists in Horse and Dog racing communities and some high flown zoo vets.

It's easier to make money with pampered dogs and cats.

John Fricke
06-02-2009, 6:58 PM
Some may consider me tight, but I chose to let my kids pay their own way through college. They both worked extremely hard to get their degree. I co-signed student loans when they were required.

I have friends who have attempted to meet every request their children made of them as they grew up. These kids are now approaching their 30's and still sponging off dad. My eldest is and RN and the youngest is a salesman for Kraft foods. They earned everything they have and are rightfully proud of it. They both make more than I and I couldn't be prouder of them for it.

There is nothing wrong with helping your kids get established in life but ultimately I believe it is more gratifying to them if they can do most of it on their own. Just my .02

Greg Cuetara
06-02-2009, 7:01 PM
I know you don't want to hear this but the best advice I can give anyone right now is to go broke. If you are broke you actually qualify for assistance whereas if you have any money you have to use it all before you can get any assistance...loans or grants. My folks had money saved up for retirement and for my college and the school made them use it all before I got anything.

I do think she has made a wise choice going to a state school because they are a lot less expensive. Another option is to look at schools out in the midwest. They are about half the price and give the same quality education.

It is good to have dreams and stay with them. Good luck to her and to you and your wife.

Greg

Eric Larsen
06-02-2009, 8:04 PM
I paid my way. I didn't have much of a choice.


Make college less expensive by doing the first two years at a community college or inexpensive state school.

The first two years is all required courses that mainly are there to weed out the party animals. No use paying big bucks for English 101. Besides, if she can't pass organic chemistry, it's better to find out at a community college than at Harvard. If she aces organic chem, she'll have an easier time with scholarships and grants.

And she can do what I did -- take a campus job, an off campus job and get about five hours of sleep each day.

Nate Carey
06-02-2009, 8:15 PM
I appreciate your input...each and every parent and grand-parent who is a forum-ite or just visiting, will benefit from the advice generated by this "thread".

My daughter, throughout her high school years, has worked as a summer camp riding instructor and during the school years has worked some evenings and most every Saturday at a local horse farm teaching and caring for the animals. She has contributed accordingly to her own college fund...I have no complaints. I'm very proud of her work ethic.

...as for going broke Greg; that is certainly a viable option for some...I don't have the guts to try it!

Tim Morton
06-02-2009, 8:15 PM
we are putting 2 girls thru college right now...we are doing it month to month and paying when we can, and borrowing when we must. The main goal is to get them thru and we will all as a family pay it back.

Not much help i know...but just letting you know it will work out somehow..you just won't be buying that sawstop fo a few years:)

Mark Hix
06-02-2009, 8:37 PM
My youngest is graduating in a couple of weeks with his masters. All 3 boys went to college. They have all had combinations of work, scholarships and grants and loans. Your daughter needs to apply for every scholarship/grant she can find. Even after she starts college. Some are very specific, one of my sons applied for a scholarship for people over 6 feet tall!

On scholarships, my youngest surprised us all. For grad school, he received a large scholarship from the university, he asked for more, they gave it! I learned something out of that too! His campus job was directing students to specif places from a desk. He studied while he worked.

Any class that can be taken at a community college will free up some money. For example: my job had me take an additional course this spring. Community college: $123. Regular university: $1200. One 3 hour course. Most of those basics will transfer, just be sure to ask ahead of time.

Nate Carey
06-02-2009, 8:37 PM
Tim, most all my stationary power tools are between 30 and 60 years old and they all treat me the way I treat them; it's a great relationship. You're absolutely right, the Sawstop will have to wait...I'll keep a close eye on my fingers...

Nate Carey
06-02-2009, 8:43 PM
This is good stuff Mark, and everyone...I was reluntant to start this thread; but I'm glad I did.

Matt Meiser
06-02-2009, 8:55 PM
My parents put 5 of us through private grade school, high school and all of us ended up at private colleges either initially or after transferring (that would be me). We started adding it up one time and my mom made us stop.

It was all paid for month-to-month and with student loans, a few grants, scholarships, and work-study. Summer jobs paid for stuff like car insurance, computers, and other necessities. What my parents paid for at the time, my mom kept track of in a book and we are all working to pay them back. The deal with the loans from them was originally that we'd pay $100 a month basically forever so they'd have some steady "income" and in reality we'll probably never pay it all back.

I had a pretty hefty student loan balance. Within 6 years we were making good enough money that I paid it all off (with some help from LOML's inheritance.) Best investment I could have ever made with that money and the same is true for most of the 5 of us even though we all chose vastly different majors and schools.

One secret to making it work is finding a school that will work with you. I went to a large "State" university in "Michigan" for one year. My mom was flat out told that I wouldn't qualify for much due to our race and some comment regarding "you people" not needing help. I transferred to a small private college the next year. Despite the fact that tuition was 3x the cost, the net increase was very small.

Joe Mioux
06-02-2009, 9:12 PM
This thread couldn't be any more timely.

My oldest is headed to the University of Illinois this fall.

It is my Alma Mater, his grandfather's Alma Mater, his Aunt's (my sisters) and my BIL.

When I went there, I paid $15K of the entire $17.5k bill.

Today, we are expected to pay $100K for basically the same curriculum.

Who cares about Big Business profits when school costs are increasing faster than the national debt. (sorry for the editorial, and mods if you deem to delete this that is fine..... just saying.... college is really expensive!)

Anyway, I think this thread might or could be used to help us parents who have kids headed for college.

I would love to hear or read what some of you parents did to get your kids through school and not wind up broke.

joe

Dan Friedrichs
06-02-2009, 9:18 PM
It's too late to suggest this for the OP, but for others, it's well worth searching out cheap state schools, and schools with large merit scholarship programs. I just finished my undergrad last year, and learned a few things in the process:
1) My in-state options were, generally, much more expensive than out-of-state (weird state, huh?)
2) Sometimes, schools are looking for particular "kinds" of students, and what they're looking for is very different at different schools.

Several schools I visited were uninterested in me, to the point of seeming annoyed that I was interested in going there (I was just one in a very large crowd). Two other out-of-state schools had large scholarship endowments, and were very agressively recruiting good students. I received excellent offers from both, and ended up going to one. It helps to look around a LOT. Several states have VERY low out-of-state tuition.

Having just gone through this, I'd suggest not making your child pay their own way through college. Look: If they have time to work, that means they have time to study harder or take more classes. Making minimum wage at McDonald's will give them some money to pay down loans, but using that time to study harder, do better, and finish sooner will get them the job they actually want, where they'll actually be making some reasonable amount of money they can put towards the loans. Don't send them off with a new BMW and your Amex, but cover all their reasonable and prudent expenses without complaint (if they're responsible, studying hard, and performing well).

Paul Ryan
06-02-2009, 9:27 PM
This will be interesting. I am by no means an investment expert. About a year ago my wife and I started purchasing CD's for our son just because the prospects of any type of funds were so bad. The interest rates on the CD's weren't that great but compared to what the market did in the time we came out smelling like a rose. Were not talking about much money my son is only 2 so we have only been saving for about 2 years. We don't plan on paying for %100. Right now we stick $100 a month away for just him into his own account. Any gifts and things like that from relatives go into that account to. Our plan is to pay for his rent, books, food, car insurance, and SOME spending money while in college. He will be responsible for tuition and other money needed. We feel it is important for him to realize how much it costs, so he doesn't abuse the privledge, because it is all payed for by mom and dad. I would love to find something to do with the money because the 2 CD's we have will mature soon. Right now there doesn't seem to be much to make any money on.

Joe Pelonio
06-02-2009, 9:28 PM
I think that working and in fact borrowing to get through college makes one appreciate it more and tends to help motivate success. If the parents can afford to help fine, but I don't endorse paying the whole thing even if you can.

You might find that in these tight budget days there is more work-study available to fill the gaps as classified staff is laid off. Often colleges like other companies will prefer to use part-time temp help where no benefits are given.

I really have sympathy, in these days when it costs so much more and staff decreases are causing a lot harder admission standards. Best of luck to you and your daughter.

My oldest worked only during the summer, but did gain great experience for her chosen field that helped her land a job after graduation. Yes, she did eventually get laid off when the bank she worked for laid off most of the corporate staff .(You know the one)

Jeff Dege
06-02-2009, 9:32 PM
Some may consider me tight, but I chose to let my kids pay their own way through college.Deal in my family has traditionally been the parents will give the kid free meal and board while they're attending school, everything else is up to them. (When they weren't attending school, they pay rent.)

Paul Ryan
06-02-2009, 9:38 PM
I found I got better grades while I was busy, then when I wasn't so busy. I played football at a D2 school for 3 years. During the season I actually got better grades, than I didn't when we had more free time. I had to manage my time better while practicing, weight room time, and traveling to and from games. When I wasn't so busy I started procrastinating and my grades suffered. So I think if your child has to work some it will help because they will stay away from some of the activities that cause grades to suffer. But they have to be kids and have fun, thats what college is all about, growing up and learning responsibility.

Eric DeSilva
06-02-2009, 9:49 PM
Nate-

I admire what you are doing and the ethic you seem to have instilled in your daughter to work to the same goal. My family worked together to get me through law school and both my sister and my brother through med school. I doubt any of us could have made it through without the financial support of the family at one point or another. The only promise my parents extracted was that I do the same for my own kids.

Your family is doing a noble thing and, while I don't have any great pearls of wisdom for you, the way will open.

John Fricke
06-02-2009, 10:29 PM
Where they reside (your house or on their own) makes a huge difference on what they can qualify for in financial aid. If they are living under your roof your income is taken into account. I can't recall the time frame required but both of my boys received more aid once they were living on their own in an apartment. Of course this also increased their cost of living.

We live about 60 miles from anywhere so commuting wasn't a good option. They both chose to rent apartments with several roommates. This made it much easier for them to maintain a decent year-round job near campus.

Dan Friedrichs
06-02-2009, 11:09 PM
Where they reside (your house or on their own) makes a huge difference on what they can qualify for in financial aid. If they are living under your roof your income is taken into account.


I don't think this is true. AFAIK, you could be absolutely estranged from your children, and they'd still need to include your income as potential means of support when applying for certain kinds of aid.

Mitchell Andrus
06-03-2009, 7:30 AM
Check out post-school service commitments and summer internships. Some ASPCA-like services are short of help and long on money. Some are overseas. A post-school service deal (sim. to ROTC/military) may help with some of the costs in exchange for a few years post-college.
.

Nate Carey
06-03-2009, 8:02 AM
Mitchell, my daughter and I have explored the military option...and for a post-graduate it's pretty much a free ride in any of the service branches for a veterinarian. But alas she's got four years ahead of her before that is viable. Animal welfare groups are also in a position to assist, but same deal...and I understand their position.

Blake Barr
06-03-2009, 8:21 AM
My daughter graduates from HS next week; in August she enters the University of New Hampshire's Pre-Vet program. She's had the dream of becoming a large animal vet since age 6 (+/-) and has not wavered from that goal.

Her mother and I started early "putting money away" in mutual funds in preparation for the day she would start college...

...you all know what has happened to that fund over the last year. It's happened to all of us.

My wife and I have, during the last 7 or 8 months, tried to get as creative as possible in coming up with ways to re-build that college fund...but I'll bet we have only scratched the surface of possibilities. We are open to suggestions...

See if she can delay entrance to college for 1 year. Have her work 1 year in some sort of volunteer/low paid internship working with animals. I'm sure she could find something with the right attitude and expectations (ie unpaid). This will give the college fund a little time to recover. I would then next year exchange 1 years worth of tuition and expenses to a money market and keep the rest in say a 30/70 mix of stocks and bonds. Each year pull one full years expenses out and drop it in a money market.

The one year of delay may seem like a huge disappointment for her but I bet 10 years from now she would look at it fondly as invaluable experience and a chance to mature a year longer before college. I wish I had delayed it for a year.. my first year was a waste of my time and my parent's money.

Blake Barr
06-03-2009, 8:24 AM
I don't think this is true. AFAIK, you could be absolutely estranged from your children, and they'd still need to include your income as potential means of support when applying for certain kinds of aid.

This is true. At one point in my college career my parents where in NH, I was in Colorado, 22 years of age and had been living on my own (and paying for myself) for a couple years. Colorado still wanted my parents info on the FAFSA and I was even considered out of state for tuition even though I had lived and worked there for over a year. Age 23 is when the parents no longer count unless there is legal emancipation.

Matt Meiser
06-03-2009, 11:33 AM
See if she can delay entrance to college for 1 year.

This could also turn out to be a huge mistake as a lot of kids who "wait a year" never go for one reason or another. Same with people who go to community colleges for 2 years with no definite plan as they frequently find out all their credits transfer as promised--but don't count for requirements towards a degree.

Rod Sheridan
06-03-2009, 12:38 PM
My parents gave all the same offer of free room and board while they were in school, however we had to pay our education costs ourselves.

Last year, one week before exams I left my HP calculator on the bus.......Disaster, they were over $200 and I had about $50 to my name. Dad paid for the calculator, the only money I received from them.

My oldest has now graduated, we split the tuition/books down the middle, if she didn't want to stay in Toronto at home (several universities) she had to pay for that.

My youngest is starting this autumn, same 50/50 rule, free room and board.

I think a half priced education is a deal, and it instills some sense of investment in the process.

Regards, Rod.

Mitchell Andrus
06-03-2009, 1:06 PM
My son has a pilot's licence and hooked up with ROTC (did it all himself) in order to get a leg up into the chopper flight program during college.

LOML and I have standard 4 year tuition set aside, but not the extra 125K for the chopper flight lessons (offered during years 2,3,4). We were hoping the army would cover just the extra flight costs. They came back and offered a full scholarship, about 225K --- that's a 4 year degree in Aviation Management and the helo flight program.

There's a 7 year commitment at the end (including 1 year add'l training), but it's a J-O-B , make that a career, that pays very well.


Is there any chance she could go the human medical route and then switch to vet. later???
.

Lee Schierer
06-03-2009, 5:02 PM
What we discovered when our two childeren went through college was that the college will look at the total funding and potential of the child and parents. If the Child has $20K in the bank, the college will spend all of that before they give out any aid. They also look at the parents income and assets and determine how much the parent can afford and that is what you will have to pay before the student gets any aid. They look at lots of other stuff too, but they all use the FAS form. All you can do is fill out the forms and seek every scholarship that is out there to come up with as much funding as possible.

Before she will get into Vet school she will need an undergraduate degree and will have to qualify to get into an actual Vet program. Not all studnets make the cut as Vets want to keep their earning potential high so schools limit their enrollment so there is never a surplus of Vets. We have a friend whose daughter has been trying to get into a vet program for 2 years since completing her undergraduate degree. She is still waiting.....

Logan William
06-03-2009, 8:43 PM
Well figure this is a good of thread as any for my first post! I graduated from college roughly a year and a half ago and although I thoroughly enjoyed the experience and I sometimes wish I was still there, all in all I'm glad to be done with it. My take on the whole payment is that each family's situation is different, and its hard to compare one to the other.

I had classmates whose parents paid for everything and anything they could possibly want, some friends were completely on their own, and everything in between. Personally I basically paid for myself, my parents covered my car insurance and cell phone bill, and thats it. I went to a large(23k students) state university in the midwest, graduated with an engineering degree in 4.5 years, was fortunate to have some help from my grandparents who set aside money when I was born into some funds which equated to roughly one semester of bills had I used it all in one, and got out with a great experience, a degree worth something and under 10k in student loans. I was fortunate to earn a fair amount of scholarship money for my first two years that the excess carried over to my junior year, had always worked all summer and carried 15-20 hours a week during the school year to help support my "wants" and fun stuff during the year. After my sophomore year I always had engineering internships that paid very well for the summer that allowed me to basically pay for the fall semester and a good part of the spring one right off the back without even tapping student loans.

To the OP I'd say there are a lot of things that we learn while in college....and most of them DON'T come from a textbook or lecture hall. First off props to your daughter for wanting to be a large animal vet....I grew up on a decent sized livestock farm, went to a university with one of the best vet programs in the midwest and even considered vet school...but no desire to ever do large animal. Crappy hours, low pay, owners who value their animals as assets not pets(affects payment!), often miserable working conditions and sometimes dangerous patients are just a few of the things to start with. However they are seeing a large drop in the number of people going large animal and that is slowly starting to bring up their pay...so maybe in 6 or 7 years it'll pay better. As far as getting in she needs to be on top of her game....our vet school has I believe 120 slots a year and generally gets around 3k applicants! They also have a guarnteed early admission for young undergrads that helps take a lot of the stress off of getting accepted....something to look into. As an undergrad its not as bad to keep a job with classes, however once she enters vet school free time will be a thing of the past, I had friends who got in and once they did they pretty much no longer existed outside of the vet complex....they put my engineering classmates and I to shame in terms of lack of a social life!

All in all I think its to each their own as to how to pay for school, if parents have the financial security to assist in their student's education thats wonderful, but make them earn it and deserve it. Nothing upset me more than seeing people who's parents were paying the bill and wouldn't even attend class and flunked out in their first semester or two. If the family can't afford to help out much, do what they can but offer support in other ways such as helping them search around for ways to make it cheaper, help on finding and filling out scholarship applications(some of the best dollars per hour I ever made!), go with them on college tours if possible, and keep their hopes up if something doesn't go their way!

Randy Cohen
06-03-2009, 8:47 PM
Sorry i don't have the patience to read through all of the posts so this may be said before.
Your kid should go to a school where you would be considered a low income family. My son goes to an ivy league school where any student whose family makes < 100K a year gets a grant (scholarship). His covers 80% of his expenses.
My other son went to a state university (here in VA the state universities are excellent schools)where there are many wealthy out of state residents attending. His education was affordable without any loans.

As far as large animal vets goes, there is a big shortage of them because they don't make as much money as pet vets do and vet school is pricey. But its way more important for your career to be enjoyable than highly compensated.

Scott T Smith
06-04-2009, 9:04 AM
Nate, there has been a lot of good advice offered on this string, and I'll add some specialized knowledge to it.

My wife is a veterinarian, who went back to school in her 30's to pursue her dream.

While the "work while you're in school" advice is good, two things to keep in mind are to limit her working while she's taking some of the toughest undergrad classes (organic chemistry, advanced biology, etc), and to totally reject the thought of her working while she's in graduate Vet School. She will have NO LIFE while she's in vet school, and not only are they tough to get into (the rejection rate is greater than the acceptance rate), they are also tough to survive. With the course load that she will have, working at that time will simply not be an option (unless it is during the summer months). Vet schools themselves will severely discourage their students from working during the semesters - there is too much of a failure rate resulting from it.

For the three years of Vet school, budget at least 175K - 200K.

Have her speak with several different vet school counselors about her best undergrad school options. Also, for a job while an undergrad perhaps she can work in some local vet clinics.

Hope this helps - best of success to your daughter.

Scott

Nate Carey
06-04-2009, 9:50 AM
Wow! ...30 thoughtful replies to my initial post. I appreciate each and every comment, suggestion, experience,...and especially the sobering realities of becoming a veterinarian.

I have complete confidence that my daughter can achieve this goal.

She has (with family advice and encouragement) spent literally years formulating a plan.

Not only is UNH our State University, UNH is very highly regarded for its pre-vet program and its relationship to Tufts and Cornell.

...I hope this thread continues...it is of great benefit to me and I know others will benefit as well...

Dan Mages
06-04-2009, 10:17 AM
Is she willing to join the military? Four years of service and she will get a nice bit of help from Uncle Sam to pay for school. And hopefully by then the economy and overall market will recover.

Dan

Nate Carey
06-04-2009, 10:22 AM
...perhaps after pre-vet Dan...


Mitchell, my daughter and I have explored the military option...and for a post-graduate it's pretty much a free ride in any of the service branches for a veterinarian. But alas she's got four years ahead of her before that is viable. Animal welfare groups are also in a position to assist, but same deal...and I understand their position.

Ken Fitzgerald
06-04-2009, 10:33 AM
Nate,

Explore the possbility of your daughter going to a small local college. My youngest son went to a local state college for 2 years and won a scholarship to a bigger university. 1 week at the bigger university, he called and then returned to the local college.

After getting a 4 year degree in natural sciences (pre-med) at the small local college, he applied to 9 of the best known dental schools in the country. He got accepted at 7 of them and made the ranked alternate list at the others. The point being that some small colleges are well respected and cost less than well known colleges and universities.

An added benefit, he lived at home for the period of time.

He graduated with a degree and no college debt.

Currently after being in the Navy for 9 years, he's attending dental school on a Navy scholarship.

There are ways.

Logan William
06-04-2009, 1:17 PM
Instead of the military you might be able to find some areas where they are short staffed in large animal vets that will pay off a good chunk of student loans if they can get a commitment from a new vet to come and practice for several years. This has been done for a while in the medical field and is gaining some ground in vet work, most of the places I've heard it done where the one vet office might have a 100 or 150 mile radius that they serve with a large number of animals there and its just tough to get someone to come and join their practice and stay for any period of time, so this works, plus it takes the worry of finding a job off the plate during the final year of school.

Art Mulder
06-04-2009, 4:50 PM
My daughter graduates from HS next week;
...
Her mother and I started early "putting money away" in mutual funds in preparation for the day she would start college...
...you all know what has happened to that fund over the last year. It's happened to all of us.

There's been lots of good college advice here, but I wanted to hit the investment side of things.

Every investment book or seminar I've ever seen has drilled in the point that Mutual Funds are a long term investment. (that is, equity funds.) As such, I have always intended to start moving my kids college savings OUT of growth mutual funds and into more conservative instruments when they hit around age 15.

This is not aimed at Nate -- we really don't know the details of his situation, and it's frankly none of our business. But I just wanted to make the comment for anyone else out there who is, like me, 6 or more years away from college bills.

best,
...art

Jeff Dege
06-04-2009, 4:52 PM
Every investment book or seminar I've ever seen has drilled in the point that Mutual Funds are a long term investment. (that is, equity funds.) As such, I have always intended to start moving my kids college savings OUT of growth mutual funds and into more conservative instruments when they hit around age 15.
Yep. I pushed my mother hard, when she turned 60, to start moving the money she expected to need out of stocks and into more stable investments. She didn't listen.

Mike Henderson
06-04-2009, 5:10 PM
I worked my way through school, with some help from my family. It's tough and it affects your school success - there's just so many hours and working means you don't do some of the school work.

At the same time, you need to make sure your child is willing to do the work to succeed in college, and not just looking at it as party time. But if they're serious, focused, and dedicated, they'll achieve a lot more in school by not having to work outside.

Mike

Judy Kingery
06-04-2009, 5:31 PM
Nate,

Lots of good suggestions here; much like Mike, his kids, I worked full-time since I was 15 and part-time if I carried 18 hours, and full-time if less than 15, throughout college - and always FT summers for sure, even while taking one or two courses during the summer sessions. My parents did pay for college for all five kids first two years, i.e. dorm, meals, etc. Last two years, we paid our own rent, food, gas, insurance etc, and they helped with tuition. So it all worked out fine. I'd agree it's important kids earn and pay for their college - BUT - I also think it's extremely important they not graduate with $250,000 in college loan debt, not wise in my book at all. Even with a low interest rate - I had one student loan for grad school and paid for all my entire grad school myself, but I paid it off really rapidly even at a low interest rate, I dislike debt of any kind.

Ken, I think has a really good idea for you - here we have three private universities which are extremely expensive. Many students who are smart attend the community college for their basics, say an Associates' degree which is accepted by all three universities here. MUCH less expensive that way. State schools are the way to go even so if you can.

One other little suggestion some friends of ours did/are doing for their two kids - they bought a house in Lubbock (Texas Tech University) and then the two kids live there instead of the dorm; have room-mates who pay rent, parents have a reasonable investment to rent or sell when kids graduate. My Dad often said his part of our college was all those rental properties (that we painted, cleaned, roofed - so I spose we did earn that part of our college as well, ha!)

Best to you - and to your daughter - I hope she realizes all of her dreams!!!

Jude

Mitchell Andrus
06-04-2009, 6:27 PM
After so much doom and gloom, and the encouraging words too.... here's something....

A good friend's daughter has just finished 4 years at Rochester. She's a bright penny and earned a major in chemical engineering/pharm. 7th in her class.

She has gotten 5 - FIVE - offers of full scholarships for her doctorate degree. Phd. That'll be about 5 more years. She's leaning towards the offer from Mt. Sinai.

There are ways to do it and there IS money out there, even in this lousy economy.

Dan Friedrichs
06-04-2009, 8:42 PM
One other little suggestion some friends of ours did/are doing for their two kids - they bought a house in Lubbock (Texas Tech University) and then the two kids live there instead of the dorm; have room-mates who pay rent, parents have a reasonable investment to rent or sell when kids graduate. My Dad often said his part of our college was all those rental properties (that we painted, cleaned, roofed - so I spose we did earn that part of our college as well, ha!)


I did this, too (buy house - rent rooms, act as landlord, live there for free). Worked out well - after the sale, we broke even, and I got 2 years of free rent.

Eric Larsen
06-04-2009, 8:56 PM
I did this, too (buy house - rent rooms, act as landlord, live there for free). Worked out well - after the sale, we broke even, and I got 2 years of free rent.

I think, if doable, this is the best solution, provided the kids all go to the same school. (And the kids are responsible enough to not turn the pad into "Animal House.")

Nate Carey
06-10-2009, 12:37 PM
Well graduation is fast approaching...tomorrow is the big day (rain predicted :().

Monday night was "Awards Night"...about 200 graduating seniors shared in the distribution of $250,000 worth of scholarships and gifts.

My daughter's efforts through HS paid off. She received 4 awards, which will help a great deal with her college expenses.

Encourage your kids to apply for any and all scholarship money available.

Larry Browning
06-10-2009, 2:03 PM
Where they reside (your house or on their own) makes a huge difference on what they can qualify for in financial aid. If they are living under your roof your income is taken into account. I can't recall the time frame required but both of my boys received more aid once they were living on their own in an apartment. Of course this also increased their cost of living.

I have some experience with applying for financial aid for college. I am pretty sure that the student's age has more to do with it than where they live.
AFAIK 25 is the magic number for applying for financial aid without including the parent's income to qualify. go to this site (http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/) for all the scoop about federal financial aid.

After a little more research, there is a quick survey on their site (http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/before015.htm)that will tell you if you qualify as independent (no parental income to report) go there to see if you qualify. Looks like the age is 23 or married (along with other stuff like military service and the like) No mention of residency though.
This is where you go to apply for a federal guaranteed student loan as well, so if you didn't know about this, YOUR WELCOME!

Darius Ferlas
06-10-2009, 2:46 PM
I had a mixed luck of having been born in Poland, so the education was free for all at all levels. In fact, students got paid by the government if they achieved certain grade average. It wasn't much by American standards but enough to live on back there.

After my 4th year in Poland I was invited by Vanderbilt University to continue in their Department of English (American Lit., specializing in the boring stuff - Early Puritan Writings), all expenses paid for one semester. After that.... $15,000! There was no way I could have afforded that in 1987. If I had that kind of money in Poland at the time, I would have built a house, bought a car and then, on what what would have been left, I could have lived comfortably for a few years without the need to work. Oh well, the good times are gone.

After moving to Canada I completed another couple of degrees and I took a partial loan 60% of which was later forgiven by the Ontario government. I paid off the remainder in a couple of years.

For the last few years we saved some money for our daughter's studies here in Canada, with the government matching our contributions to a special tax free account. The cost of study is around $5000 per year (I think), of which we paid nothing as she received full scholarship. After her second year, as irony will sometimes have it, she is now in Poland for... studies. All expenses paid by her Canadian University.

I have lived in North America for 22 years and I'm pretty much used to the realities here, but I still can't understand why it is considered necessary that the tertiary level education is not free.

Jeff Dege
06-10-2009, 6:02 PM
I have lived in North America for 22 years and I'm pretty much used to the realities here, but I still can't understand why it is considered necessary that the tertiary level education is not free.
It's simple, really. If the government is paying, then the government gets to decide who gets educated. The taxpayer starts complaining about useless layabouts spending their lives in school doing nothing on the taxpayer's dime, and the politicians appoint some commission to tighten up the "loopholes". And then we end up with a system in which everyone is pigeonholed. Take a test, and the bureaucrats have the rest of your life planned out for you. You go to college, she goes to trade school, he goes straight into some dead-end job.

If the government pays, the government controls, and because everything the government does is by its nature political, that means that critical decisions about everyone's lives are being made based on politics. And that should be abhorrent to anyone who values freedom.

Pat Germain
06-10-2009, 6:16 PM
Monday night was "Awards Night"...about 200 graduating seniors shared in the distribution of $250,000 worth of scholarships and gifts.

My daughter's efforts through HS paid off. She received 4 awards, which will help a great deal with her college expenses.

Encourage your kids to apply for any and all scholarship money available.

Wow, that's awesome. When my kids graduated HS a few years ago, there weren't even any scholarships they could apply for. The valedictorian of my daughter's class got a scholarship to attend Oklahoma University medical school. As far as I know, that was the only free ride scholarship in the whole class, outside of ROTC.

Paying for college these days is an absolute bear. It's not at all like it was twenty years ago. Tuition and fees are much, much higher. And the availability of money is much, much lower. That's why so many recent graduates are facing debts of just below or above $100,000.

FYI, only lower income students can get work study these days. The same goes for grants. "Lower income" means if your household income is more than $10,000 per person in the house, you don't qualify. Students can get Stafford loans, but those max out at a few thousand dollars per year, which is only a down payment for many schools.

As mentioned, private schools can actually be cheaper. If a family doesn't have the money, a private school can usually find it. With public schools, not so much. I see "experts" on TV occasionally who always say, "Go to your financial aid office!". Well, my kids went there again and again and got bupkis. They got their Stafford loans and paid for the rest waiting tables. I also paid for a lot of their life expenses along the way.

Darius Ferlas
06-11-2009, 12:07 AM
It's simple, really. If the government is paying, then the government gets to decide who gets educated.
Where I lived there was a degree of what you would call "affirmative action" but in the end those who had what it took did OK and went to schools of their choice. Having lived under communism for 25 years, I can't think of one single example of what you are suggesting.


If the government pays, the government controls, and because everything the government does is by its nature political, that means that critical decisions about everyone's lives are being made based on politics. And that should be abhorrent to anyone who values freedom.

Education is not just about a bunch of facts, numbers and dates that will conform to someone's political ideas. It is much more than that.

Only those susceptible to being controlled will be controlled, whether they hold PhD degrees or can barely read and write. Yes, commies tried indeed but I think you know what the end result was. Besides, how can you politicize math or chemistry? Even within humanities, any mind worthy of the education it receives, will eventually confront reality and will start asking questions. The Colonists were taught to love the King and pay him taxes. They rebelled against both and thus we have the US of A. Kids in communist countries were taught to love the USSR and the whole communist nine yards. They rebelled and communism is no more.

If we were to really think about your fears then we'd have to conclude that only those who can afford education should be educated, while the rest should remain at a very basic level of literacy.

I'm pretty sure the government wouldn't (and doesn't) have any problems with controlling the silly and the uneducated. Compare with ancient Egypt. Very few select could read or write. They had absolute power over the rest. Ignorant nations are easiest to govern. Sadly though, the educated can be corrupted.

Jeff Dege
06-11-2009, 12:20 PM
If we were to really think about your fears then we'd have to conclude that only those who can afford education should be educated, while the rest should remain at a very basic level of literacy.
You seem to have taken my remarks in almost exactly the reverse of what I had intended. I'm not saying that only the rich should have educations. I'm saying that the government shouldn't be in the business of deciding who gets an education. Which the government very much is, if the government is paying for education.

What do you do, if the government decides you don't qualify?

Darius Ferlas
06-12-2009, 8:08 AM
I'm saying that the government shouldn't be in the business of deciding who gets an education. Which the government very much is, if the government is paying for education.
I didn't say the government should decide what's being taught, but the government should pay. The money it gets it does not pick from the trees, or is somehow miraculously granted by supernatural powers. Government paying for education should be read as the society paying for it.


What do you do, if the government decides you don't qualify?
I'm not sure as I that never happened to me, or anybody I know.

Neal Clayton
06-13-2009, 6:17 PM
My daughter graduates from HS next week; in August she enters the University of New Hampshire's Pre-Vet program. She's had the dream of becoming a large animal vet since age 6 (+/-) and has not wavered from that goal.

Her mother and I started early "putting money away" in mutual funds in preparation for the day she would start college...

...you all know what has happened to that fund over the last year. It's happened to all of us.

My wife and I have, during the last 7 or 8 months, tried to get as creative as possible in coming up with ways to re-build that college fund...but I'll bet we have only scratched the surface of possibilities. We are open to suggestions...

honestly? as fast as you lost the money in the markets you can make it back over the next year. this is a rare opportunity, to be in on the bottom of the biggest market crash since '29. you've missed the first leg of the rebound but there are 3 more to go, we're in the middle of the mine/materials rebound now. then there's the industrial and retail rebound still left to come.

i was lucky enough to get out before last fall in anticipation of it, but since then i've made a pretty easy 50-60% return. and expect the same rate from now til the end of the year.

have her take out loans for the first year. during that year play the market with the remaining money from your failed mutual funds. if you do well in that first year you can pay off the loans, pay for the second year, and have some left to keep investing to earn enough for the remaining years.

it's not rocket science. watch sector and commodity trends, pick high volume companies that still made a profit despite the worst of the recent recession in Q1, learn to read the option markets and commodity markets to accurately judge the incidental winners from up or down trends in said markets, and don't leave profit on the table, take it when you get it and work at it on a bad day buy/good day sell scenario. don't rely on mutual funds. study the market, have your daugter do it with you, she needs to learn anyway. doctors and lawyers are notorious for coming out of college with the ability to earn and the inability to manage a business and money. the experience of investing for her own education would give your daughter an education equally as valuable as the veterinary degree.

and she won't be the only one doing this. lots of college students these days take their spare grant and loan money and play the markets. as well they should. kids can quickly learn the math and sift through the internet's mass of information alot quicker than the rest of us can, you might be suprised when she winds up teaching you a few things before her time in college is over with.