Cutting board detail questions

[Ken Platt]

Folks -

I'm making a batch of cutting boards for presents, first time I've made cutting boards. Obviously a straightforward project in the basics, but I figure that what separates a hunk of wood from a cherished present is in the details. So -

Do you put feet on your boards, or otherwise make them functionally one-sided? I have some of those little insert grippy things, but I'm torn between whether it's better to have the boards not slide around vs being able to use both sides of the board. I'm also considering putting a cove on the undersides of the ends of the boards for an easier pickup/finger grip. Again, though, this would make it a one-side-use board. Thoughts?

While we are on the subject of grips, I'm wondering what the deal is with the cutouts. There seem to be a lot of boards with cutouts, but it doesn't seem to me that these serve any real function. The boards I use daily have some, but I never use them to hold the board, and I've never seen anyone hang a board up on a hook. So, are those really just decorative, or do others find them useful?

Next, how do folks put a juice groove around the perimeter of a board? I have a core bit, but I'm unsure how to make the groove flow smoothly around the corners. I guess a template and bushing would work, but that's a bit of a chore for a one-off board. Is there another way I'm not seeing? Or do you just use an edge guide and have the groove meet at an angle at the corners of the board?

Lastly - you guessed it - finishing. I've read many threads on this, but I'm wondering a couple of things. First, where does one get walnut oil? Second, I saw a thread on the wood whisperer site about using thinned varnish on end grain boards, so that it soaks in rather than forming a surface film. Anyone try this?

Thanks for all thoughts, comments, etc. I want to make these boards nice, but also usable. Some of the incredible boards I've seen pix of, I'd frame and hang on a wall rather than use.

Ken

[Frank Drew]

Ken,

I made a cutting board for my brother and sister-in-law years ago and turned bun feet for it, attached with single screws each.

I've also routed half-round recesses in the end grain of a couple of boards I've made, stopping an inch or so in from the corners; makes it easier to pick up a heavy board and doesn't limit it to one-face use.

Mineral oil is easy to find, doesn't get rancid, and protects the wood to some degree.

I've never cut a juice groove but I think they're nice features; I think you're on the right track with methods to cut them. Some routers come with single-roller guides that would track around a rounded corner fairly well. I think my Bosch had one.

[Dan Gill]

I prefer to leave my boards without feet. This allows folks to cut on one side and display the other. They don't slide around on me. The only one I make with a groove is one with a Texas-shaped groove, and so I have to use a template.

Mineral oil is the thing to use for finishing.

The handles can help to pick up a heavy board, and also to slide them out of an overhead cabinet. I've done them with and without.

[Richard McComas]

No feet on mine. The reason being it is recommended to help prevent cross contamination to cut meat,chicken and fish on one side and veggies on the other.

This may sound dumb but that what I read.

For a finish: Mineral oil with bit of wax melted in to the oil.

[Tom Esh]

I don't put feet on mine - might as well let 'em use both sides. As for grips or edge treatments, I just grab the biggest roundover bit I have and make stop cuts on both ends and both sides. The resulting ramp of sorts makes it easier to slide fingers under and pick up. Decorative cutouts are fine, but I prefer them big enough to use as a handle. For finish I like Keft's Wood Cream - a food-safe wax/oil formula. I rarely put a perimiter groove in mine, but the easiest way is to use a solid rectangular template, double-stick tape it to the surface, and rout around the edge with a guide bushing and a bowl or core box bit. (I put radius on the template corners first as I find it nearly impossible not to over-run square corners without leaving burn marks.)
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[Bill Huber]

I do use feet on my boards, this keeps them from sliding on a counter. I may not need to but it sure keeps them in place. I just use the stick on square ones from Ace Hardware and they last for a long time.

I put a cut out on the bottom of the boards to pick them up with, it works very well being that I use feet and only one side.

I put a juice groove on my boards, it just make it better when cutting some veggies that have a lot if juices in them. If you don't have one the juice will run off the side and then gets all over the counter top and make somewhat of a mess.

I use a template that is 1 1/2 inch smaller then the board and a Bosch Colt with a guide bushing and cove bit to cut the juice groove.

There is a lot of talk about the finish and a lot of people just go nuts when you say you use Mineral Spirits and Salad Bowl finish on them but that is what I have used on all the boards I have made (50 now). I use the 50/50 like Marc talks about on his site. When done right it last forever and does not need maintenance all the time. I put it on and let it soak though the board and then turn it over and do the other side letting is soak though again. I do this 2 times and when finished I let the boards set out in the sun for a day or 2 and then let them set in the shop for a week before they are ready.

Here are some of my boards and also the way I make the groove and the handle cut outs.

http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/cutting

[Eric L. Severseike]

Sorry for the thread hijack, but I'm also making a cutting board - what's the consensus on the best glue to use - I'm debating between Gorilla glue and Titebond III.

Thanks,

Eric

[Chris Padilla]

For the glue, Eric, the Gorilla POLY glue is messy to use but would work just fine. I don't have any experience with the Gorilla WOOD glue. TB-III would work just fine.

[Bill Huber]

Sorry for the thread hijack, but I'm also making a cutting board - what's the consensus on the best glue to use - I'm debating between Gorilla glue and Titebond III.

Thanks,

Eric

I use Titebond III on all of mine, I had one board that was left in a sink of water over night and the glue joints held, now some of the wood cracked but the glue held.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

It would take an extra step, but I make my boards all end grain. Make a checkerboard pattern. The reason is longevity, chopping on end grain is much better. Looks, not so good, but just my 2 cents. I also take a chamfer bit, and chamfer the edges then put a long grain frame, also with a chamfer. This creates an all around blood groove. Biscuit joint, since it's then cross grained.
Glue with waterproof Titebond. (II I believe). Finish with butcherblock oil (Mineral oil)

Oh, if you do end grain, and the cutting board is actually used, in the long run it looks "better" since a knife mark does not look as pronounced, for some reason. When you get a knife gouge in long grain, it's very noticeable, IMO. Since the end grain is already "ugly", the knife mark is not as noticable. It may be that the knife mark will always be running across the grain, making it obvious.

[Lee Koepke]

My only additional comment is in regards to using Walnut oil ( and walnut boards for that matter ) ... there are some people that have walnut allergies, so if gifting, be aware.

I have only made one cutting board ( for me ) and used mineral oil / parafin wax combo on cherry & maple wood. Rubber feet, no juice grooves.

[Ken Platt]

I appreciate the responses.

One point my wife made when she saw the post was that feet, especially grippy ones, would make it hard to slide the board into wherever it is stored. I've gotta admit, it's a good point. I took out and replaced our current boards a few times, and if they don't slide past each other, it takes two hands to get it into the upright storage place.

I tried some mineral oil on a leftover piece of the end-grain board, and disliked that look. I wasn't wild about it on the regular face grain either. I found some walnut oil, so I'll try that.I have some paraffin wax I could try also. Guess I'll just have to experiment on scraps like usual...

Ken

[Basil Rathbone]

Bill, when you refer to mineral spirits, is that the same as paint thinner, varsol or turpentine or is it something different? I have not been able to find anything labeled "Mineral Spirits" but that may be because they are all the same thing. I plan on using it on my end grain cutting board the same way Marc did, also.

[Bill Huber]

Bill, when you refer to mineral spirits, is that the same as paint thinner, varsol or turpentine or is it something different? I have not been able to find anything labeled "Mineral Spirits" but that may be because they are all the same thing. I plan on using it on my end grain cutting board the same way Marc did, also.

This is what I found on Goolge.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-mineral-spirits.htm

Mineral spirits is also known as Stoddard solvent.

That about all I can really come up with. The one thing you have to do is let it dry for about a week.

[Frank Drew]

Basil,

Mineral spirits and what's sold as "paint thinner" are the same thing, as is Varsol, Esso/ExxonMobil's proprietary mineral spirits. True turpentine, however, is quite different, not being a hydrocarbon.

[Jeff Mohr]

Look for paint thinner and read the finer print...a lot of the cans will say 100% mineral spirits.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Bill, your cutting boards look great. I especially like this one: http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/image/83488306

But from the picture I cannot tell which way the grain runs. I imagine two of the sides are going against the grain of the adjacent wood? If so do you worry it might split?

[Steve knight]

the boards can warp if they sit flat all the time on a non porous surface. so feet can really help that out.

[Bill Huber]

Bill, your cutting boards look great. I especially like this one: http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/image/83488306

But from the picture I cannot tell which way the grain runs. I imagine two of the sides are going against the grain of the adjacent wood? If so do you worry it might split?

It is all end grain, it was a mess to glue up but it did look good when it was finished. It is all hard maple and purple heart.

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[Mike Cruz]

I made one for carving the Thanksgiving turkey. Routed a drip edge all around with a channel leading to the middle...connected to the outter drip edge. I also took a small gouge and hand carved out an indention in the middle (about 12" X 16") so the turkey didn't want to "take off".

I used spare strips of maple and cherry, with a few accent oak pieces. It was made entirely of scrap. Amazing how much "scrap" you need to make something that big.

It is a conversation piece every year when I whip it out...

[Bob Genovesi]

The boards are for all the women in my life; My wife, daughter 1 and daughter 2, and of course my mother-in-law, bless her little heart and.....never mind

The center boards are hard maple and has some real nice grain. Each of the pieces measure 2 1/2 inches wide and 10 1/2 long. The trim is Brazilian Cherry I had left over from another project and really sets off the center nicely. I used Titebond 3 glue waiting about 12 to 18 hours between machining to ensure the glue was strong enough for surface plaining.

The cutting boards are finished except for the mineral oil which I'll get the next time I'm out. You can buy it just about anywhere for a few bucks a bottle.

I also took some shots during their construction to show the order in which I made them.

Pieces glued and clamped

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/CuttingBoards007.jpg

Ends glued and clamped

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/CuttingBoards001.jpg

Tongue Cut

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/CuttingBoards009.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/CuttingBoards010.jpg

Groove Cut

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/BreadboardEnds_1.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/BreadboardEnds_2.jpg

Nice Joint

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/CuttingBoards006.jpg

Finished Boards

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/CuttingBoards004.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/CuttingBoards005.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/BobbyG53/CuttingBoards003.jpg

I rounded the edges with a router and then finish sanded everything.

[Mike Cruz]

Well, they certainly are beautiful. And I have to say, nice tight joint, too. But, how do you account for expansion across the board with the end pieces (covering the end grain) glued on? Usually, when cabinet doors are made this way, the middle floats to absorb the expansion and contraction...

[Jeff Willard]

No feet on mine. The reason being it is recommended to help prevent cross contamination to cut meat,chicken and fish on one side and veggies on the other.

This may sound dumb but that what I read.

For a finish: Mineral oil with bit of wax melted in to the oil.

Not dumb at all. Most cases of salmonella poisoning occur from processing uncooked foods, typically vegetables, on surfaces that were used to process raw poultry. It doesn't go far enough though. The board should be washed and sanitized before any product intended to be consumed raw, or in an undercooked state is processed, regardless of which side of the board is used.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

Ah... I see now :). I really like the boarder/framed look but couldn't didn't see a good way to avoid wood movement issues. I guess really wide boards and end grain will do it :).

By the way it looks wonderful!

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

First, where does one get walnut oil?

Any large grocer in the fancy pants food isle
I reccomend that you use mineral oil. It doesn't catalyze with the air and soaks in well. And it's oodles cheaper AND aseptic so it'll never support any fungal or bacteria growth.



Second, I saw a thread on the wood whisperer site about using thinned varnish on end grain boards, so that it soaks in rather than forming a surface film. Anyone try this?

I suppose that might be good for a board you were planning on hanging on a wall like trophy or maybe dedicating to be used only for bread or some other dry application. However a couple things come to mind:

Shellac is the exudation of an insect called the Lac Bug (google it).
As such it is organic and will support fungal and bacteria is it's moist.

Shellac is also not a water sealant. It can slow the transpiration of water but, it is not a substantial barrier for any wood that is going to be exposed to water and soap regularly.

It also goes to crap when exposed to too much water.

If you want a board to really tolerate kitchen usage you need to use side grain and it's best to literally immerse the thing in mineral oil agter the glue is well catalyzed. I use close fitting garbage bags (all the air removed)and rotate'em to keep the oil circulating. You could just rub the board down ever y day for a couple weeks.
Even with such a treatment the oil will need to be replenished every so often - if the board is washed in water that is.



As it regards end grain boards:
The real ones were monstrous beasts a couple feet deep. the butcher used them because the end grain would self hear and the knife edges took less of a beating when pressed into the end grain fibers. Then they'd scrape the boards off at the end of day and scrub them with salt leaving lots of salt in them. The ones most folks make these days are not ever going to see that sort of workhorse usage but, still they don't tolerate water well.

So, whatevber boards you make, think of the people who'll receive 'em.
If they are likely to use 'em for everything, take that into consideration.

[Mike Cutler]

Bob

Those are some really nice boards! Beautiful work.

To add to the discussion, here is a board I made for my wife.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61157

I have subsequently made two more in the same design, one being a much larger bread/pastry board.
In researching cutting board there is a lot of info available on the USDA and FDA websites on construction, use, bacteria, cleaning etc. Also the available info and links from both sites generally agree that a wooden cutting board is more hygenic than an HDPE board.
An actual cutting board really doesn't need any finish on it, and in the case of a bread/pastry board it's undesirable, to be hygienically safe for use. A finish does bring out the beauty of the wood though.

[Bob Genovesi]

Well, they certainly are beautiful. And I have to say, nice tight joint, too. But, how do you account for expansion across the board with the end pieces (covering the end grain) glued on? Usually, when cabinet doors are made this way, the middle floats to absorb the expansion and contraction...

The hard maple centers are glued the entire length but the breadboard ends are glued for about 2 or 3 inches in the center only allowing the end to float a little.... No problems yet!!

[Mike Cruz]

That'll do it. I didn't want to say it, but I'm glad you didn't glue it the whole way. :)

[Wilbur Pan]

I wouldn't use walnut oil on a cutting board. If the board is used to prepare food for someone with nut allergies, it can trigger an allergic reaction, which could be quite severe. Mineral oil is what I've used.

[Russ Kay]

Regarding those cutouts, I have three cutting boards, two I've bought and one I've made, all with cutouts or holes in the handle parts, and I hang them all up on hooks over my sink, with my pots and pans. Very handy, IMO.

[Eric DeSilva]

Just to throw in another $0.02, when I made a couple cutting boards, I did so for serious cooks (me & my mother--my sister gets #3). That means hefty--mine is about 15" x 20" and 2" thick end grain maple. The one I did for my mother is about 12" x 18", 2" thick cherry. Sanding end grain cherry or hard maple takes a long time. A really long time.

The reason for end grain is that when a knife blade is applied to it, the knife blade slips between the end grain fibers. When its cross-grain, the blade cuts through the fibers. As noted by others, that leaves a more noticeable mark. More importantly, its a lot less friendly to your knives.

Anyway, I went with mineral oil. With end grain, it really, really soaks it up. When I do one for my sister, I'm just going to pour a bunch in a flat tupperware and float the board in it overnight.

No feet. I like reversibility. But, to combat sliding around on a granite counter, I use a bit of left over non-slip carpet stuff. Basically just rubber sheet. Put on counter, put board on sheet. Works like a charm.

[Brian Penning]

Folks -

Second, I saw a thread on the wood whisperer site about using thinned varnish on end grain boards, so that it soaks in rather than forming a surface film. Anyone try this?

Ken

I've switched to the thinned varnish and find it great. Lasts a lot longer and easy to re-apply.
Would never go back to mineral oil.

[Jason Hallowell]

Feet, handles, juice grooves, cut-outs etc. are all a matter of personal preference for whoever will be using the board. Some will find those features useful, and others will find them a nuisance. I do a lot of cooking, and my preference is for very plain cutting boards without any feet, grooves, handles etc. FWIW, you may notice that most cutting boards found in restaurant supply stores where chefs shop are the same simple configuration.

I much prefer end grain cutting boards to long grain. When cutting on an end grain board, the blade is able to slip between the fibers of the wood to some degree, rather than cutting them, which reduces the dulling effect on the knife blade, and causes much less damage to the board. End grain boards can easily withstand a decade of hard use with virtually no hollowing effect, whereas a long grain board will start hollowing within a couple of years in a place like my kitchen.

I've tried several finishes, but prefer plain mineral oil. I put it on thick and let it soak in for a day and then re-apply a couple of times. I also advise anyone I give one to that they should wipe it down with mineral oil once every six months to a year depending on how much use it gets.

[Basil Rathbone]

Bill,

All your boards look great, especially without any router burn marks like I got on my board (my first). I haven't cut my groove yet but will be using a Hitachi router with both a fixed and plunge base. I'm not sure which would work out better. Any advice?

I am planning on making my groove 1/8" deep and hope that any burn marks will be gone with light passes.

Also, do you have any sage wisdom for routing end grain as opposed to routing with or across the grain?

Thanks, Basil

[Bill Huber]

Bill,

All your boards look great, especially without any router burn marks like I got on my board (my first). I haven't cut my groove yet but will be using a Hitachi router with both a fixed and plunge base. I'm not sure which would work out better. Any advice?

I am planning on making my groove 1/8" deep and hope that any burn marks will be gone with light passes.

Also, do you have any sage wisdom for routing end grain as opposed to routing with or across the grain?

Thanks, Basil

On the round over part of the board I still get a burn now and then when I slow down to much. I do the round over on the router table and not hand held, I guess I just feel it is easier with the table.

On the groves I use a template and use double back take to hold it to the board to make the groove. I make light cuts and slow the router speed down and make half the cut at a time. http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/image/86916112

I use my Bosch Colt to do the groove and it has a fixed base. I use a bushing to run along the template. I make a cut from the top right to the lower left then turn the board and make that same cut again. For some reason I just can not make a full cut all the way around without burning at some point.

To cut the groove I use this bit in the 3/8 size. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18596&filter=Round%20Nose%20bits


In general I use a good bit, clean and sharp. I slow the router down some and when cutting don't slow down, keep moving or it will burn.

[Pete Schupska]

I've always preferred an equal mix of mineral oil+parafin+Bee's Wax applied with a heat gun. It seems to buff well, and needs refreshed only once a year or so.

As for feet, the first cutting board I made (hard maple and walnut) had none. It was a gift for my sister, and she has only used the "bottom" so the "top" stays unblemished.

Just a thought.


Anyone every used Hickory for a cutting board, or Elm? I suspect they are both a little too open grained for safe use.

[Keith Outten]

I realize that these aren't a favorite around here but these are my preference for cutting boards that are going to be used.

They are dishwasher safe which means that they will be washed regularly because it isn't a chore.

They are absolutely food safe, in fact Corian is approved for use in hospital patient care areas.

They can be routed without fear of burning, go fast or slow it makes no difference.

They don't require any finish to be applied, the surface is non-porous so the contamination issue isn't a problem.

When the surface shows some wear it takes about five minutes with a random orbital sander to make it as good as new.

Everyone that I have made has been from free material, sink cutouts from a local top shop.

I have never had one returned and every one of them is used for its intended purpose.

Many use them as lap trays, TV trays, etc.

Just another alternative to consider!

:)
.

[Phil Thien]

They don't require any finish to be applied, the surface is non-porous so the contamination issue isn't a problem.


Hold on there, chief (:D):

http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm


In addition to our laboratory research on this subject, we learned after arriving in California in June of 1995 that a case-control study of sporadic salmonellosis had been done in this region and included cutting boards among many risk factors assessed (Kass, P.H., et al., Disease determinants of sporadic salmonellosis in four northern California counties: a case control study of older children and adults. Ann. Epidemiol. 2:683-696, 1992.). The project had been conducted before our work began. It revealed that those using wooden cutting boards in their home kitchens were less than half as likely as average to contract salmonellosis (odds ratio 0.42, 95% confidence interval 0.22-0.81), those using synthetic (plastic or glass) cutting boards were about twice as likely as average to contract salmonellosis (O.R. 1.99, C.I. 1.03-3.85); and the effect of cleaning the board regularly after preparing meat on it was not statistically significant (O.R. 1.20, C.I. 0.54-2.68). We know of no similar research that has been done anywhere, so we regard it as the best epidemiological evidence available to date that wooden cutting boards are not a hazard to human health, but plastic cutting boards may be.

[Keith Outten]

Phil,

I have read this before but I discounted it because it doesn't make any sense to me. Plenty of people use plastic plates, knives, forks, cups, and a whole host of other plastic items for food prep and consumption purposes. Plastic products are the mainstay of the medical field used in almost everything that involves food and drugs from storage to application.

If I have to make a choice based on what I think is the safest material for my family I will stick with Corian for cutting boards. I have read that some species of wood are advantageous based on natural properties that counteract some type of bacteria but this isn't the case with all wood species.

When it comes to getting a cutting board clean I have faith in plastics because they are a non-porous material. Wood will soak up grease, blood and even detergent making it much more difficult to assure that it is clean. I have to "Just Say No" to the laboratory research on this one particularly their position that "the effect of cleaning the board regularly after preparing meat on it was not statistically significant" :)
.

[Keith Outten]

I'm surprised that Phil was the only one to challenge my position concerning wood versus plastic cutting boards.

Concerning the details you can tell I prefer blood grooves and handles. The blood grooves help contain the mess protecting the counter top from being contaminated. The handle is because I know that some people have problems with their grip and the handle makes it easier to control the board during use, when washing them in the sink or when they are placed in or removed from a dishwasher or cabinet.
.

[Phil Thien]

I'm surprised that Phil was the only one to challenge my position concerning wood versus plastic cutting boards.


For the record, I'm not 100% sold on the data. I guess I would classify the study as "somewhat reassuring," not "the definitive word."

[Mike Cruz]

Keith, I have been considering posting pics of my turkey cutting board, but just hadn't gotten around to it. Since you brought up your prefference for blood groves, well, it inspired me to post some pics of it. I've had this for about 7 years or so. There are rubber feet on the bottom. No handles, but the rubber feet give it enough room underneath to pick it up.

[Keith Outten]

Mike,

Thats a nice looking cutting board and your blood groove was planned to a "T". It's unlikely that a drop of juice will excape the board and end up on the counter top. I can see the oval dished out area that is connected to the blood groove around the perimiter of your cutting board. Very Nice!
.

[Paul Ryan]

I've always preferred an equal mix of mineral oil+parafin+Bee's Wax applied with a heat gun. It seems to buff well, and needs refreshed only once a year or so.

As for feet, the first cutting board I made (hard maple and walnut) had none. It was a gift for my sister, and she has only used the "bottom" so the "top" stays unblemished.

Just a thought.


Anyone every used Hickory for a cutting board, or Elm? I suspect they are both a little too open grained for safe use.

I made cutting boards from walnut, white oak, hickory, red elm and have never had any problems. I don't see how hickory and elm are any more open grained than anyother wood. Of all the woods I use on a regular basis hickory is by far the toughest and strongest wood. It is a pain to work with because it burns and splinters easily and is like sanding a piece of iron. Even though I face all of those challenges it is my favorite wood.

[Mike Cruz]

No juice has escaped yet, and we've had some mighty juicy birds! Thanks for the compliments.

[Keith Webster]

I just thought I would also let you know that you can buy great food safe mineral oil from Bed, Bath, and Beyond (http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?order_num=-1&SKU=11648975) (click on link to see it). It comes in a small plastic container that I give away with my cutting boards. I tell the new owner to coat the cutting board at least twice a year. I also remind them to not wash them in the dishwasher.