Need Some Help deciding

[Paul Franklin]

I need some help deciding on what Laser to buy. I thought I had it all sorted, but then I started to look a bit deeper into different machines.

The machines I am trying to decide on are the following in not particular order,

Epilog Mini
Trotec Speedy 100
Versa Laser VLS3.60

Do I need the air assist, It seems to come standard on two of the three machines?

I am sure there are more questions I should be asking, they are all kinda close in price.

Thanks

Paul

[Doug Griffith]

I would not even consider a machine without air assist... and yes, you are just a little bit vague.

Cheers,
Doug

[Paul Franklin]

Doug

Thanks

What other information would be helpful?

Cheers

Paul

[Doug Griffith]

Hi Paul,
I'd start by mentioning:
1) the substrates you wish to cut/engrave
2) the largest size you wish to process
3) how close is your rep / manufacturer

Actually, I'd first do a search through this site. You'll find many threads on this subject. Then I'd post refined questions focused on your particular application. You'll probably get more information than you asked for.

Cheers,
Doug

[Paul Franklin]

The substrates I would be cutting or Engraving include Wood, Acrylic, Glass and Aluminum also cork
I need at least one dimension to be 21" so I was thinking a 12x24 bed. Depth the more the better, but not that important.
I have a rep for all the machines within 50 miles.

Thanks

Paul

[Mike Null]

This topic has been discussed many times on the forum. Doing a search will turn up better results than beginning a new thread.

It doesn't matter where your rep lives. He is not likely to be of any help once the sale has been completed. You can believe otherwise but that's your gamble.

All laser warranties include YOU as the serviceman.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

You also need to highlight some of your requirements. For instance the VERSA must have a dedicated PC connected withing 10 feet or so. It does not have a Network capability.

[Scott Shepherd]

For instance the VERSA must have a dedicated PC connected withing 10 feet or so. It does not have a Network capability.

Which means a lot of things on the positive end of the spectrum. Not having a network card or ethernet is not always a bad thing. People with poorly written drivers seem to hate USB because their drivers are always having issues with it. Job control and programmable Z-Axis, no auto-focus plunger to worry about are other things to take into considersation.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

If you change material frequently then you must know the exact thickness of each and it must be entered. I just love the auto focus on my epilog. It is yet another reason I went with them.

And I have yet to need to change the Z axis on the fly.

[Scott Shepherd]

And you've had your machine for how many days now?

I'm not saying one is better the other, just pointing out that you highlighted one area that was important to you and left out other information that might paint a fair comparison.

I don't care which machine anyone buys. I don't get commission from any of them, but I do like to see fair comparisons made so people can make up their own mind with all the facts and differences laid out on the table.

You might not use the Z-Height, but I use it every day. So who's right? There is no right and wrong, it's just understanding the differences by comparing ALL the features and facts and then you pick the one that fits your needs and budget.

[Mike Null]

Which machines did you look at that didn't have auto focus?

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

None of the VLS machines have auto focus. They manual focus and measured focus. YOu dont get auto focus until you get into the PLS machines.

[Mike Null]

Just curious, I have have both and still prefer manual focus.

[Scott Shepherd]

None of the VLS machines have auto focus. They manual focus and measured focus. YOu dont get auto focus until you get into the PLS machines.

Let's be clear, they don't have autofocus because they have a programmable Z-Axis, which eliminates the need for autofocus. If you have a job that has 2,10, 100,or 1000 pieces on the Epilog, and you select "Auto-Focus", it will waste time on every single part after the first one because it will raise and lower the table, going through the focusing procedure on every single part. The alternative to this is to send the job over once with auto-focus on, and then you have to send the job over again with it turned off. You run the first part, then change jobs and run the other 999.

With the programmable Z-Axis, you enter the material thickness, it focuses on the first part, then the table never moves. So while it might take 3 seconds to enter that material thickness in once, it's still less than having to send the job over twice and change jobs.

The VLS doesn't have "autofocus" because it doesn't need it because it uses an alternative system that's been in use on CNC machines for 30 years.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Again lets be clear.

Auto focus is just that AUTOFOCUS. you place a piece material in the machine and you don't have to measure its exact thickness. It will simply measure the thickness of the material for you. If you are doing 100 pieces of the same thing you simple auto focus on the first one.

I also prefer the Epilog manual focus method over the ULS. I found it to be more intuitive and much quicker. Normaly I dont manual focus but when using the 4" lens I use the manual focus system.

If I were in a production shop (Which I am not) I think the job control software and the programable Axis systems on the ULS may have been of more use to me. But I am in a R & D environment and the Epilog mini 24 seemed to be more intuned with that.

This is one reason the OP must indicate what his intentions are.

Oh one last note. ULS does offer Auto Focus on its more expensive machines so it must have seen the need somewhere along the way.

A note to the OP. The ULS machines (Versa) can seem like a real deal up front but by the time you add all the options that the Epilog system already has you are right back in the same price range. You are better off comparing to the new Zing lasers from Epilog. Which by the way have a programmable Z axis.

[Scott Shepherd]

90% of my jobs are 1 off. I have autofocus and I've never used it except to see if it worked.

I've owned the Epilog and the ULS, so my experience is deeper than a demo.

I don't care which one you buy, just make sure you have all the facts.

Also, I almost never measure my material. So it's not a case of "you have to measure every single job". It's actually quite simple. If you have 1/16" material, you enter .062", 1/8", enter .125. Also, once you have run the material one time, you save the material. Next time you run it, you load the material, it has the thickness and all the settings, so there is nothing to measure.

I've got 1000's and 1000's of jobs run through the laser, both Epilog and ULS.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Another note to the OP.

AirAssist. The ULS Versa machines have only the Manual Air Assist option. This does not have a solenoid so the air runs constantly even when the machine is idle. This means you must:

1. Use a small continuous air compressor like those used for air brushes.
2. USe a large tank based air compressor.

Option 2 means that the compressor will kick in about every 20 minutes or so. Again since my primary application was cutting this affected my purchase. At the very leaset ULS should offer a $100 selonoid option.

[David Fairfield]

Autofocus can be completely disregarded as a purchase incentive. Its a throwaway feature... literally. :o

Dave

[Doug Griffith]

90% of my jobs are 1 off. I have autofocus and I've never used it except to see if it worked.

I've owned the Epilog and the ULS, so my experience is deeper than a demo.

I don't care which one you buy, just make sure you have all the facts.

Also, I almost never measure my material. So it's not a case of "you have to measure every single job". It's actually quite simple. If you have 1/16" material, you enter .062", 1/8", enter .125. Also, once you have run the material one time, you save the material. Next time you run it, you load the material, it has the thickness and all the settings, so there is nothing to measure.

I've got 1000's and 1000's of jobs run through the laser, both Epilog and ULS.

The problem with not measuring the material, at least when working with cast acrylic, is that it is very inconsistent in thickness. Also, 3mm (.118") is usually sold as .125" without letting the customer know. Same goes for other thicknesses.

I also don't use autofocus.

[Scott Shepherd]

Doug, I'm with you, I used .125" as an example. I use .120" for all my 1/8" acrylic. The point was made that you have to measure every single piece of material that goes into the laser on the ULS and my point was to negate that and say that you don't, and explain why.

Focus isn't quite that critical. Plus or minus .020" isn't going to give you a huge issue with a 2.0" lens.

[Doug Griffith]

Sorry about that. I missed your intent. You're right, it would be a pain to measure every piece and it isn't that critical. I manual focus once per material change and just live with the variation. Also, sometimes the correct focus height is between "clicks" and I just guess either way.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Personally I like Auto Focus and use it all the time so its not a throw away feature. Also with enhanced optics and moving to the 1.5 lens focus is crucial.

But again it all comes down to what the OP intends the laser to be used for.

[Paul Franklin]

Thank you all for the feedback.

I have several uses for the machine,

1 - I am a cabinet/Furniture maker and would like to mark my pieces, like drawer boxes etc..

2 - My 13 year old son has a very busy pen turning business and needs to mark his pens.

3 - I also some clients that want things marked, like Glass, Acrylic, Slate, Marble. Also name plates.

So I have alot of different needs for an Engraver.

I hope that helps.

Cheers

Paul

[Scott Shepherd]

Paul, all 3 models you listed will do the jobs you have listed. From the end view of the actual engraving, if all three machines engraved or cut the exact same jobs and they were laid on a table, you'd not be able to tell the difference between them, with few exceptions.

You'll need to get demos of all 3 and then pick the one that you like the best. Every single one of them will do exactly what you have asked, so there is no way to discount one versus the other, except by your personal preference.

All 3 have excellent service departments, all 3 will overnight parts under warranty, all 3, I believe, have at last 2 years on the tube, and most will make it a 2 year bumper to bumper warranty if asked during the negotiations, if they do not already offer it.

So the engraving is the same, the service is the same, the warranty is the same, so what's left? Fine details. Details that probably won't make sense in the beginning anyway. Just make the dealers show you in detail what their machines can and cannot do. Be sure to ask each one of them why their machine is better, and then make them back up their claim. Once that's all said and done, you'll have to pick one!

[David Fairfield]

I had a bunch of problems with the autofocus.

Mainly, the plunger reduced clearance. So when lasering irregularly shaped items, or an item than needed to be weighted down, the plunger was apt to smack something and damage the item, or move the item being lasered thereby ruining it.

Secondly, the autofocus on my Epliog was not calibrated to focus on a very thin item, such as paper or cardstock. It would go to the length of travel, then lock up and make a high pitched squeal. I'd have to turn off the machine to unlock it. Obviously not good.

Third, whenever it was manually focused on paper, and the machine returned to the home position, the plunger would smack the ruler bars and scrape against it. Probably putting stress on the motors and pullies.

Fourth, when engraving a small item, the plunger is liable to miss the item, then go to problem 2 and lock up. Double doh!

Fifth, I got into the habit of using autofocus, then forgot to unclick the autofocus option on risky items as I just described, then I'd have the same problems again. Doh!!!

Bottom line, autofocus is just not worth the trouble. Manual focus is a simple and quick matter of pushing a button and visually checking the machine is properly set. I'd want to do that as an extra precaution, even if the plunger didn't have so many problems.

Dave

[Sandra Force]

I have run with and without auto focus and I have to say I prefer to focus the lens myself. This allows me to either get a tight focus or if I wasnt to run off focus I can. I would want to put the little more money into it and use a dedicated computer, it will save a lot of time and problems. You can network that computer so that you can work on one and use that to run the laser, have had many fewer problems since I went to that. That said and done, the best advise that I can give you is buy the most power you can justify and buy a bed bigger than you think you have to have. You will come up with things that are larger.:D Good luck and enjoy.

[Rodne Gold]

If the autofocus has been well implemented , its a huge time saving feature , I would never do without it on my Gcc's
Would you buy a camera these days without autofocus?

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

With the kinds of items you are doing auto focus will be a blessing. But on some things like the pens (depending on orientation of the pens) you may want to focus manually.

As a wood worker I can say the marking of certain pieces will be a nice custom feature. Things like your logo on the inside of drawers or doors is a real pro feature. Dont forget things like wood inlays. While I have not done any of these it is on my list.


The Epilog plunger has a spring release so if it hits something its not going to rip it off. If this happens just lower the bed. The home spot on my laser at the 1" point.

It looks like Epilog may have made some refinements. All that said If I was going to use my laser on a lot of my wood working projects I think the 24x12 bed on the mini 24 may be too small. This is where the 4.6 will really shine. As far as bed size the VLS4.6 is probably the best bang for the buck. Especially if you are going to be engraving wood working items. Since you did not mention any cutting the air assist issues on the ULS I mentioned may only be a minor hinderance.


My suggestion is to get your copy of corel draw now and experiment. Make a logo and take that with you to each demo along with the kind of wood you will use and have them do it.