3520B owners - electrical question

[Chip Sutherland]

I was at the local BORG this morning picking up some extra 14g wire. The guy helping me ending up telling me that I couldn't run my 3520B off of my home panel with the existing 220/20amp power supply. I currently use the 20amp circuit for the 3HP/1phase/15.3amp tablesaw. So can someone tell me why the 3520b with 2HP/1phase/6.2amp cannot use the same 220/20amp power supply? I've NOT plugged it in yet lest the guy be right.

FYI...I have zero electrical skill. But in talking with other 3520 owners, I am amazed this didn't come up earlier. And I scoured the internet but didn't really get a hit this specific.

Clarification - I only reusing the same plug for the TS and lathe. The 2 machines will never run at the same time. I'll be plug swapping them. I generally unplug all the time.

I'm not sure how to rip lumber and turn a hollow form at the same time. That'd be some serious talent for a one-man shop.:D

[Dave Ogren]

Chip,

This is not the best idea but, if you are not going to run them at the same time, why not? Ideally they should be on a different circuit. Good luck.

Dave

[Richard Madison]

Chip,
What you were told does not make sense. At least if you only run one tool at a time. Maybe your helper meant that you could not run all your 220v tools at full load at the same time. It should be just fine as is.

Note that many folks like to unplug their EVS tools at the end of the day to "protect" the electronics. Others only unplug or turn off the breaker when there are thunderstorms in the area (as I did yesterday). Sometimes a voltage surge in the line or power interruption will cause the EVS to "shut down". When this happens, just unplug or pull the breaker and wait about 10 minutes for any transient voltages to dissipate. Then plug it back in and the EVS will "reboot" in a few seconds and be ready to run.

The only dedicated 220 circuit you really need is for the A/C/Heater unit (and of course major household appliances like clothes dryers). Assuming that there is only one of you, and you only run one 220v tool at a time, the circuit you have should be completely adequate.

[Donn Morris]

The national electrical code requires #12 wire for a 20 amp circuit serving an outlet. That may be what he is thinking of. However, for a plug and cord connected appliance, the #14 cord should be fine. #14 is rated to 20 amps.

[John W Dixon]

Chip, I think your helper was not understanding your intentions. He may have thought you were going to run a new circuit of 220v 20 amp on the 14/2 and was saying you shouldn't do that. Or as was stated, he thought you were using both tools at the same time on the same circuit. I can see no electrical reason why you couldn't alternate between the two machines.

John

[Reed Gray]

Your lathe will do fine on standard home current. He may have thought you wanted a 3 phase line or some thing, and didn't know about the inverter. Ran mine off a home breaker panel for years. When I got my shop, I had the same set up, though a sub panel, and not the home panel.
robo hippy

[Chris Stolicky]

The national electrical code requires #12 wire for a 20 amp circuit serving an outlet. That may be what he is thinking of. However, for a plug and cord connected appliance, the #14 cord should be fine. #14 is rated to 20 amps.

Yes, I wouldn't use anything less than 12 gauge wire.

I actually ran 10-2 for my 1642 (2 HP). But I was using a 30A breaker.

The other thing to consider is the distance you have to run the wire.

[Burt Alcantara]

I have a 3 hp 220v Grizzly bandsaw. It did not come with a pig tail. I called tech support to ask about wire gauge. They said 16 would be fine. The 3520b I believe comes with either 14 or 16 gauge.

I run a 5hp 220v dust collector and 3520b from the same 30 amp circuit. I've never even had a blink. None of the wires have ever gotten past ambient temperature.

Remember This: The Borg Speaks With Forked Tongue -- They Know Not What They Say For Their Minds Have Been Stricken With The Disease of Zombie Brain.

[Mark Norman]

I was at the local BORG this morning picking up some extra 14g wire. The guy helping me ending up telling me that I couldn't run my 3520B off of my home panel with the existing 220/20amp power supply. I currently use the 20amp circuit for the 3HP/1phase/15.3amp tablesaw. So can someone tell me why the 3520b with 2HP/1phase/6.2amp cannot use the same 220/20amp power supply? I've NOT plugged it in yet lest the guy be right.

Thats a question best asked the guy who said ya couldn't do it. I would like to hear his reasoning. No reason you cant use the same outlet for both machines


I'm not sure how to rip lumber and turn a hollow form at the same time. That'd be some serious talent for a one-man shop.:D

That would be a sight to see :eek:

[Mike Minto]

I would seek out professional advice, if you think you still have not received a qualified answer to your question. as someone who has worked construction and owned his own handyman business, as well as having worked for 4 months at a HD (yuck!) - (not that that makes me a subject matter expert) i've found that most employees in "home improvement", and most other 'specialty' stores, are just employees filling a slot - gone are the days of those helpful 'geeks' at places like Radio Shack (stores my Dad and i used to love to shop at because they were staffed with people who were really into electronics and such) - the most they seem to be able to do is show you to the hardware section and say, 'well, it ought to be here somewhere'. good luck. mike :o

[Jeff Nicol]

Chip, I have my 3520B and my 16" jet 220v planer on the same circuit. Since the lathe only draws a max of 6.2 amps and the planer is never on at the same time when I am turning there will never be a problem. So in your case that will be true also, unless someone is sawing on the table saw at the same time you are turning. Even if that happens both machines would have to be working really hard to reach max amp draw.

For Chris, If you ran a 30amp circuit with 10-2 and the motor only draws lets say 10amps max, by oversizing the wire and breaker you have made it more dangerous. If the motor should have a problem, or a bearing is getting bad and the amps start going up the breaker won't trip until the motor and other things are wrecked! In your case bigger is not better, you should size the breaker and wire according to what will be running all the time, if you have a dust collector and an electric heater or something on the same circuit then you are O.K. If the 1642 is the only thing on the circuit that will be running it is not good!

When in doubt contact an electrician

Jeff

[Eugene Wigley]

Chip, you should be able to run your 3520B on the same circuit as your saw as long as you do not run both at the same time. I do that myself. You should use #12 wire for that circuit. If you have questions or need NEC code sections you can email me at ewigley@w3electric.com.

Good luck

[Steve Schlumpf]

Chip, I learned a long time ago to never take the advice from folks working in home improvement stores!

I agree with Eugene and others that there is no problem using the same circuit as your power saw. If you ever do use the saw and lathe at the same time - I hope it makes it to YouTube as it should very entertaining!

[Chris Stolicky]

For Chris, If you ran a 30amp circuit with 10-2 and the motor only draws lets say 10amps max, by oversizing the wire and breaker you have made it more dangerous. If the motor should have a problem, or a bearing is getting bad and the amps start going up the breaker won't trip until the motor and other things are wrecked! In your case bigger is not better, you should size the breaker and wire according to what will be running all the time, if you have a dust collector and an electric heater or something on the same circuit then you are O.K. If the 1642 is the only thing on the circuit that will be running it is not good!


Jeff, thanks for the heads up. I actually already had the breaker, not in use, in my panel (which is why I used it). I just made sure I properly sized the wire for it. That's interesting that the machine would allow that to happen and not trip; or at least act up before hand. The only thing in the foreseeable future was to run a vac pump on the same circuit - but even that isn't a continuous use or a big draw.

I guess I should look into a smaller breaker then....

[Reed Gray]

This brings up another question. Isn't there a reset/breaker on the inverter/motor/lathe that is supposed to do the same thing? I have tripped the reset button on the PM a number of times, and on the Robust a few times. Mostly from high speed shut offs with high loads/mass, and a few times from just trying to take off too much.
robo hippy

[Jeff Nicol]

This brings up another question. Isn't there a reset/breaker on the inverter/motor/lathe that is supposed to do the same thing? I have tripped the reset button on the PM a number of times, and on the Robust a few times. Mostly from high speed shut offs with high loads/mass, and a few times from just trying to take off too much.
robo hippy
Reed, When all the failsafes fail the next thing is the lathe! Just because the guy did not die when he jumped over niagra falls are you going to do it too? There is always the correct way to do things and the way that works until the house burns down! I chose to be as safe as possible, but that was not always the case. But after a few minor mishaps I have learned my lessons.

IMHO

Jeff

[Richard Madison]

The logic of saying that an "oversize" breaker and appropriate wire size is dangerous is somewhat flawed. If it were true, then all of our typical 15 and 20 amp household circuits that usually run no more than 4 or 5 amps load (couple of light bulbs or a tv set) should be reduced to 10 amp circuits.

[Scott Conners]

The breaker's purpose it to protect the wire itself and any terminations such as receptacles etc. The load should (and in most cases is required by UL/NEC) have it's own overload/overtemp protection. Older equipment many not have it, but modern stuff should.

Running a lower load on a higher power circuit is not any more dangerous. If the equipment requires protection, it should be via an inline fuse or breaker designed for equipment protection at the load itself. There are many factors to be taken into consideration in choosing the type and sizing of a load protection device, and just guessing at what the proper reduced size breaker is may provide a false sense of security. Motors, for example, may have surge currents at startup that are double or even triple (or more) their rated load, depending on type and what they are driving. A breaker sized at the nameplate load may false trip and/or weaken over time from the repeated overloads. A properly sized slow-blow fuse is simpler and more reliable protection than a typical household magnetic breaker for that situation.

It is completely safe to run a smaller breaker on heavier wire, however it is not correct to say that a properly sized breaker is more dangerous.