chipped plane mouth leaving tracks

[Nelson Howe]

I bought a Bailey #3 and most of a #4 1/2 from Craigs List for $20. I cleaned them both up with a vinegar soak (worked great), and flattened the soles on sandpaper on my jointer. The #3 works great. I borrowed the lever cap off my grandfather's old #6 (which is mine now), but the lever cap screw had a different thread pattern (!?), so I got one from a different Craigs List buy of a cheesy newer Stanley handyman plane. I have a Hock iron that I got for the #6 as well.

Now I know I've read somewhere here to stay away from chipped mouths, and I guess I'm seeing why now. Looks like someone planed into a nail at some point: little nick/chip in the front of the mouth, larger corresponding one in the back. When I use it, it leaves pretty pronounced tracks from the chip. I tried smoothing it, but I figured I'd ask you guys if this is fixable, before I do any more filing around the mouth.

Also, on that subject, if I put a Hock replacement iron on the #3, will I need to file the mouth open? And is that a bad thing to do? I'm interested in using the plane, but if it has antique value, I'd hate to ruin it, and would rather sell it to someone who cares about that aspect of it and use the proceeds to buy some nice irons to build my own planes.

Thanks for your input,

Nelson

[Sam Takeuchi]

Is there any burr on chipped mouth/sole? If there is, you can sand it smooth, or if you are concerned with flatness of sole, you can lap it on a flat surface like thick glass with abrasive paper on it.

Could it be the blade is chipped? While chipped mouth/sole is not the most desirable thing, it's not a part that digs into the wood surface, so unless there is a burr or some thing protruding from the sole itself, it shouldn't create a track on wood. Take the blade out and take a good look on the blade edge. And grind it down if there is a chip on the blade.

As for the filing the mouth on #3, Hock blade should fit unless you have one of those super tight mouthed ones (like my #7). If you aren't concerned about value and such, you can file the mouth wider, but don't file it any more than you need to.

As for the value of your No.3, it depends on what kind of No. 3 you are talking about. There are No. 3s that have little to no value, the type people wouldn't take it even if you offer it to them for free. And then there are ones with collective value where people will pay lots of money for. Since I don't know what kind of No.3 you have, I wouldn't know if it's worth filing the mouth or not. People here love pictures (more the better), so post pictures :) Personally I'm one of those people who cares nothing for the collectors and if I want to use the plane and need to file open the mouth, I will do it in a heart beat. Be it a Stanley sweet heart era planes or Bedrock. Besides, a ordinary Bailey type planes normally don't command that high of a price unless it has something collectors or other users are looking for. Whatever that is. The way I see it, it's a plane, not a trading card. If you have a use for it, I think you should go ahead and use that.

[Nelson Howe]

Thanks for the reply, Sam. I'm away from home for work right now, so I can't put up any pictures, but I'll try to put some out when I get back. I already lapped the sole on sandpaper on my jointer table, and I felt for any rough spots. Couldn't find any, but I will definitely check again. My thought on the chip was this: it forms a bit a of a Vee, with the point pointing to the heel, and the edges of the Vee, though they don't protrude, are sharp. I wondered if the sharp edges were enough to mar the wood under the pressure of a planing stroke.

In any case, I'll look again before I start filing anything. At this point, I've got nothing to lose, as a smoothing plane that leaves tracks is of no value to me.

As for the #3, best I can tell from "Patrick's Blood and Guts" is this is the third type of frog (PAT'D/MAR-25-02/AUG-19-02) and the cap iron is unadorned. Tote and knob are not cracked or chipped. Much of the japaning is still there. But I also understand #3s are very common. I'll snap a photo soon as I can.

Nelson

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Take a Ball Pien hammer to it and settle the edgy bit down.
No really, what Sam said. If you cleaned up the base - and left no flaws - then it's gotta be the blade.

If it's not the blade then, you didn't get all the flaws off the base.

There's just no where else to look.

[Nelson Howe]

Okay, I'm an idiot. You guys were right. After careful examination, I found a nick in the plane iron. I reground and sharpened it. Now it works great.

And here are the pix of the two planes.

Any information about the planes would be welcome. They work great!


Thanks,

Nelson

[Sam Takeuchi]

You paid $20 for this pair? :eek: You got a Great deal on those. Really great deal. If knobs and the rest of parts (aside from lever cap and such as you replaced them) are original, I guess that's from in between type 11 and 12 era. You got low knob on those (type 11 and prior), and I think it's No.3 that's got 3 pat dates (type 11 and 12) but brass adjuster is big (type 12 and up. Did you buff them or are they replacement? The look new), so it could be from 1918 to 1919. What kind of logo does the original blade have? V-logo or so called "Sweet heart", a logo with SW in a heart shape? Either way as users, these blades aren't anything special, just normal blades.

Personally I love low knob planes, so I envy you for getting those for $20. These are respectably good quality planes and now since they've been tuned, I'm sure they are as good as they were intended to be. Take good care of them. They'll last longer than us :D

[Nelson Howe]

The blade says
STANLEY
New Britain
USA
in a Vee shape. No heart.

The only parts I replaced are on the 4 1/2: cap iron, iron screw, chip breaker, and Hock iron. Everything was just soaked in vinegar and scrubbed with a brass brush and tooth brush, then lightly oiled or waxed.

I appreciate the information. They both plane nicely now, but I might get a Hock iron for the 3.

Thanks,

Nelson

[Dan O'Sullivan]

Hey I couldn't resist writing to you as I am in the same boat as you seem to be. I have an old 4 and an old 3 I have been using heavily for 25 years. I really love the 3 and I seem to use it more than other woodworkers that I meet along the way. Recently, I had the chance to take my friends Hock high carbon blades and try them in my Stanleys. In short, the blades are coming in the mail(hopefully tomorrow). They fit right in the plane the only adjustment I made was to the screw for the chip breaker.

In my case I decided on the high carbon blades. I don't have much to compare between the A2 and the high carbon. On another visit I had a brief try with the LN #4 and it was indeed very nice. I would like to have one some day. It had the A2 blade and it was impressive. So... you have to make a decision. I made my decision based on a comment I read that Hock made about the blades. He said you can get the high carbon a little sharper but it just won't stay sharp quit as long as the A2. Now I told you I have been working the edge on the original blade for 25 years so you know I am not going to get frustrated hitting the stone. I'll write again once I get the blades tuned up and I get into some curly maple I just picked up from another sawmiller in my area.

Glad to hear your problems are solved. I was going to add a suggestion my German boss/mentor gave to me a long time ago when I was suffering the same frustration with a track: he said "hey knuckehead take the blade out and run the plane over a smooth piece of pine. See any tracks? No Guess what? the blade is messed up and so are you. Fix it and get back to work" or else.

photo of the desk lid I am working for a desk.