Writing fiction

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Some years ago I took up writing. I finished my first full length work. Every one, including editors, who saw it liked it.
No one would publish it. At the time that style of character driven, high adventure, hard science fiction was not in vogue. The then popular material was fantasy especially written by female authors. New unpub' females were getting published but no new make writers were emerging. Marketing departments were running all the editorial decisions and editors who made a bad choice found themselves out of a career with no new prospects. This crisis for editors was made worse by the then current really awful round of consolidations and the attendant layoffs, firings, and downsizing. When there are only two or three publishers in the nation an editor didn't have much room for error.

So at the time if you were not already a Marquee name you were not likely to be published. I spend more than a year looking for an agent. Finally I found one who tried and tried but, failed and failed finally turning all her efforts to cook books.

The thought of entering that awful search for an agent again makes my stomach turn. These are people who will (if you are lucky) send you your SASE and query back with "NO" scraweled on it in red crayon. It seemed they just handed the stacks of query letters to their four year olds with instructions to print a big "N" and a big "O" on them.

[Greg Peterson]

Cliff, sorry to hear about your struggles as an author. I can't help but hear 'Paperback Writer' going through my head at the moment.

The arts (music, writing, film, theater....) are ultimately forced through whatever die the wheels of commerce are cranking out at the moment. Surely many great, and sadly unknown works have suffered the fate of silence as a result of this arrangement.

Here's to your eventual publishing. In the meanwhile, hang in there.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Thanks. I have handed out advice to aspiring authors telling them to do the things I didn't do.
Things like write for free for whoever would print them and submit so much to whatever state specific journals where they live that eventually they'll get in print and eventually paid for it.

I chose not to go that route because I already knew my voice what I wanted to do and how. I just happened to be a couple decades too late.

There seem to be a few new Sci Fi writers these days and not a one is worth a tinker's damn. I can't imagine how some of them can read their own stuff.

I just finished a new work by a couple of guys about whom the cover blurb said they were "expert" at warfare (the major theme of their work). This expertiese was supposedly founded in their having been soldiers. That however, did not translate to their ability to tell a good story. They wasted the first three quarters of the book trying badly to interest you in characters who were uninteresting, poorly depicted, and what I found really strange few of them had a role in the rest of the book except as bit players of no consequense.


Maybe the old addage about who you know was playing large. Luck is always part of it. Right place. right person, right time: things no writer can control are alweays at play.


The finest new writer I've read lately is a young woman Stephanie Meyer, who has an extraordinary skill at creating interesting characters and weaving a good tale with therm. Her hard science skills are sorely lacking but, the rest of her skill set more than makes up.

[Sean Troy]

Have you ever thought about self publishing? My wife kind of had the same problem with a book also and finally did her's through Creatspace. She's actually been selling pretty fair. http://www.createspace.com

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Have you ever thought about self publishing? My wife kind of had the same problem with a book also and finally did her's through Creatspace. She's actually been selling pretty fair. http://www.createspace.com

Traditionally, vanity publishing leaves you with no marketing and a huge pile of books. And of course marketing is the single greatest expense. It can run into the millions easily.

To get your work in the IRL marketplace you need to play inside the system. The internet has changed some of that by making digital books available and places like "create space" let you make your work available to a broader customer base.

I've never looked into self publishing using the internet.
Tell me a little more about her experience. What's she writing how has her volume of sales grown?
I'd be interested in how she approaches the buyer.

[Sean Troy]

Her experience with Createspace has been good. I've been doing and learning the marketing for her. I've set her up with a website http://www.cindytroy.com Free press releases, got her involved with forums and book review websites that pertain to her style book. It's not as hard as it may seem but does take a little time. She only keeps a dozen or so books on hand at any one time and just uses those for autographed copies people request. Createspace sells your book through Amazon and your own free site at Createspace. The only money out of pocket going this route is purchasing your proofs. That may only be one book or two. You set your own price for selling your book. She also has a blog and I've got her linked swaped with other sites. No, you won't sell as many books as you might with an agent and full fledged publishing company but you also don't have the up front expense either. Any way you can get your first book out there is a blessing that can pay off big for your second book and so on. She will have a much better chance with her second novel she's just finishing with a major publisher picking it up. If you do go the Createspace route, I'll be more than happy to give you any help and info I've learned along the way.

[Pat Germain]

Cliff, I'm an amateur writer and completely understand what you're going through. These days, if you're not already a celebrity or a friend of Oprah, you can pretty much forget about being published.

Fifteen years ago, I would buy The Writer's Market and there were all kinds of publishers where you could at least submit your work for consideration. Now, if you look at The Writer's Market, almost every single entry says, "No unsolicited submissions". That means you can't even try.

I agree with your comment about vanity press. You can sell a few copies to family and friends, but no store will carry your book.

The only avenue for publishing I can see these days is to enter contests. But be very careful. Some writing contests are actually thinly disguised scams.

There's a literary magazine I found called The Glimmer Train. It's run by two sisters. They hold regular fiction contests. There's a small entrance fee, but I don't think it could be considered a scam since they do publish a quarterly magazine and it features the stories of contest winners. (It's not like The Golden Poet's Society where everyone who pays a fee gets an entry into some worthless volume.) You can also submit work for consideration without a fee. Unlike almost every other publisher, they will actually read your submissions. I submitted one story awhile back. It was rejected. But hey, getting rejected is a big part of being a writer. And these days, you typically can't even get rejected. :rolleyes:

[Steve knight]

Epublishing is the way to go.
http://www.abintrapress.com/

[Pat Germain]

No offense, Steve, but I fail to see how e-publishing would get an author anywhere but on a web page. Nobody will review the book. No stores will carry the book. There won't be any publicity about the book. Nobody will host book signings or tours. Publishing on a web page wouldn't even make the book available for download onto a Kindle (e-book reader).

Sure, anyone can put up a work onto a web site. Then what?

Yet, if I was some sleezy celebrity of any kind, I could collect a multi-million dollar bonus to ghost write a book about bathing cats and see it in every book store and checkout line in the country. :rolleyes:

[Brad Wood]

I'm curious what sort of sci fi you are writing... I don't seem to read much other than non fiction these days, but when I was younger I read all sorts of stuff from Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke, etc. I loved sci fi that had a sense of realism to it, not hard core fantasy stuff with talking animals and all that

[Pat Germain]

^^ Hey, good question, Brad. I'm also a fan of hard science fiction. Phillip K. Dick is my favorite SF author. I've been reluctant to jump into the Steampunk, alternate history realm. But that seems to be dominating the market since "Quicksilver" became so big.

So, Cliff, whatcha writin', man?

[Steve knight]

it can sell books. the site I posted was created or got going by a e author. he is one of the top sellers on fictionwise. ebooks are getting big and it is far easier to get going that way.
all the stuff that goes along with big writers is seldom something that happens to most writers. this is the future of books https://www.fictionwise.com/ just like new bands find that big producers won't touch them well same with writers.

[Pat Germain]

Fictionwise is a division of Barnes & Noble. So, if you're not published, how would you get your book on Fictionwise? It's not like they accept submissions.

I agree with your comment about new bands, Steve. My son is a singer-songwriter. Music labels sign almost no new bands these days. In the beginning, a few bands got some attention from Myspace and Facebook. Now, there are so many bands on those web sites, and others, it's just all whitenoise.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Phillip K. Dick is my favorite SF author. and he's gone.


My favs include Raymond Feist, Frank Herbert, Roger Zelazny, Ben Bova. Greg Bear. John Varley, Dan Simmons, Phillip Jose Farmer, Orson Scott Card, Gregory Benford, Larry Niven - in no particular order



So, Cliff, whatcha writin', man?

I like to think stuff that would make my pantheon of authors proud.

[Pat Germain]

and he's gone.

Alas, yes. So, I should have said, "was" my favorite SF author. I admit, he wasn't the greatest blower of prose. But his ideas and concepts were amazing.



My favs include Raymond Feist, Frank Herbert, Roger Zelazny, Ben Bova. Greg Bear. John Varley, Dan Simmons, Phillip Jose Farmer, Orson Scott Card, Gregory Benford, Larry Niven - in no particular order


I've read some essays by Orson Scott Card. I need to check out his fiction. I'll look into the others as well. Thanks for sharing.

[/QUOTE]I like to think stuff that would make my pantheon of authors proud.[/QUOTE]

I bet they would be proud. Now, you just need to get published! :)

[rick fulton]

My favs include Raymond Feist, Frank Herbert, Roger Zelazny, Ben Bova. Greg Bear. John Varley, Dan Simmons, Phillip Jose Farmer, Orson Scott Card, Gregory Benford, Larry Niven - in no particular order


Cliff,
Some excellent authors there. Other good authors in that same category that I would recommend; Alastair Reynolds, Steven Baxter, Vernor Vinge, Ian Stewart, and a particular favorite - Neal Asher ("Cowl").

I've noticed that some short stories in Analog and F&SF magazines are just copies of chapters from some of the above author's books. If you can write chapters that stand on their own as a story, you could double the chance of getting published.

Writing is a tough way to make a living. I'm sure you've read Robert Heinlein's Five Rules for Writing;
Rule One: You Must Write
Rule Two: Finish What Your Start
Rule Three: You Must Refrain From Rewriting, Except to Editorial Order
Rule Four: You Must Put Your Story on the Market
Rule Five: You Must Keep it on the Market until it has Sold

Good luck to you. rick

[Art Mulder]

There seem to be a few new Sci Fi writers these days and not a one is worth a tinker's damn. I can't imagine how some of them can read their own stuff.

Have you looked into the young adult or juvenile market at all? As the father of four (aged 5-12) who ALL read a lot, I've become more and more acquainted with that section of the library and bookstore. And it seems to be quite dynamic. I see quite a few new authors appearing, and not all of them are JKR clones... :D But I confess I have no idea how they got there.


I've been reluctant to jump into the Steampunk, alternate history realm. But that seems to be dominating the market since "Quicksilver" became so big.

And here I was going to recommended Philip Reeve's "Darklight" trilogy, and Kenneth Oppel's "Airborn" trilogy... both young adult oriented stories (I don't care, I thought they were darn good.) but would fall into that "steampunk" sort of alternate history genre. ;)

best wishes, Cliff. Maybe someone here knows someone...

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

it can sell books. the site I posted was created or got going by a e author. he is one of the top sellers on fictionwise. ebooks are getting big and it is far easier to get going that way.
all the stuff that goes along with big writers is seldom something that happens to most writers. this is the future of books https://www.fictionwise.com/ just like new bands find that big producers won't touch them well same with writers.

According to the policy they have today (I have no clue if this was always their policy) your friend was already an established published author.


Taken from their web site here: https://www.fictionwise.com/AuthorInfo.htm"Fictionwise does not accept unsolicited original works. We do not have an editorial team to assist authors with new works or evaluate new manuscripts.
What We Will Accept
Fictionwise seeks reprints of short stories and novels from established professional fiction authors."


Which sort of puts the KYBOSH on unpublished writers.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Well I checked out the CreateSpace.

I like a lot of what they are doing and how they do it.
The license is non exclusive and you can terminate it at will.

One thing I don't like is that they don't let you conduct like an independent business entity. They insist on holding your Social Security number and deducting taxes. That bothers me.

[Eric Larsen]

Traditionally, vanity publishing leaves you with no marketing and a huge pile of books. And of course marketing is the single greatest expense. It can run into the millions easily.

To get your work in the IRL marketplace you need to play inside the system. The internet has changed some of that by making digital books available and places like "create space" let you make your work available to a broader customer base.

I've never looked into self publishing using the internet.
Tell me a little more about her experience. What's she writing how has her volume of sales grown?
I'd be interested in how she approaches the buyer.


Let's see, a short list of writers who self-published:

Mark Twain
John Steinbeck
Edgar Allen Poe
Henry David Thoreau

Really, it goes on and on and on.

If your book is good enough, your market will find you. I recall Stephen King writing about getting published. He suggested writers skip looking for an agent. When you're a success, good agents come looking for you. Until then, you don't need them.



As to "No unsolicited submissions" -- that just means two things:

You need to find out the name of the submissions editor. (Don't rely on a year-old book. Call the office and ask.) You need to write a one page letter to that editor asking if he'll have a look at your submission. That letter needs to stir the editor's soul, or the answer will be, "No."