So how would you fix this? PIC

[Dennis Peacock]

OK....I'm working on this Model 27 (made in 1900) Singer sewing machine. Take a good look at the pic and let me know what YOU would do to fix this or at least make it better. BTW, the topcoat is shellac....appears to be garnet shellac as best I can tell.

[Jack Wood]

Hey Dennis, just a thought but could you turn the pieces over? :rolleyes:

[Tyler Howell]

Pretty Fugly there Bud.
Antiques Road Show would say lightly clean it. Refinishing woud de-value the piece!!!!
Sorry I can't be more help:confused:

[Jim Becker]

The fact that it's shellac makes your job a lot easier...it's a finish that offers "friendly renewing". But you may want to talk with an expert, Steve Mickley in Ohio. His site is at http://johnjacobmickley.net/Shop%20Pages/Woodshop.htm and he is a very approachable. He's done some nice articles for WOOD Magazine in the last year or so, too.

[Tom LaRussa]

OK....I'm working on this Model 27 (made in 1900) Singer sewing machine. Take a good look at the pic and let me know what YOU would do to fix this or at least make it better. BTW, the topcoat is shellac....appears to be garnet shellac as best I can tell.
Dennis,

I take it this is a restore-for-use project, or are you trying to keep its value (assuming there is any) intact as a antique? In either case, I think you need to get rid of the surface crud so you can see how bad things really are underneath.

If you're trying to keep its value as an antique, I would just clean the surface with Murphy's Oil Soap and hope for the best. (I found Murphy's to be highly recommended when I did some research into how to clean my mothers antique Chinese cedar chest.)

If you're not trying to save the original finish, I would then use some denatured alcohol to take off the shellac. Then another cleaning, possibly followed by another de-shellacing.

At that point I think you've got a better chance to assess the condition of the wood.

HTH,

Tom

[Dennis Peacock]

Well, let's see....from left to the right side of the picture:

Left - This is the "top" of the cabinet that closes over the sewing machine when closed. That is a steam iron footprint from many years ago (maybe even from when I was small?) :p

Right - This is water stain/damage. The veneer is coming up at the edge where the water damage is.

I'm redoing this for a friend of mine in WI close to John Miliunas. He will be by here to pick this up in September. I have attached another pick to show how far I've broken this down and am performing many "tedious" repairs on it now.

[Brian Hale]

If it was mine i'd approach it a bit differently...

I'd replace the QS oak top with a new one. If there is nothing other than shellac as a finish your that much further ahead. Sometimes fumming with amonia will help match the other parts.

Keep the original top and do a good cleaning on it and the other parts.

The result would be a piece pleasing to look at but still retain it's value because you didn't "strip and refinish". If you want to sell it later, put the old top back on and offer the new one with it.

Just my thoughts.......
Brian :)

[Todd Burch]

As many THOUSANDS of these were produced, I would sand the silly thing to bare wood and re-shellac, not worrying about the value of it, unless a museum curator was commisioning you BIG BUCKS to worry about such things.

If it's simply QS oak veneer over ply - well, there you have it - it's junk already - fix it and get on with life my friend!!

[Wes Bischel]

Dennis,

Few thoughts:
- Re-glue the veneer before stripping (or sanding especially) The old finish will keep any squeeze out off the exposed areas. Also, there is less worry of leaving stains from the clamps/weights used.

I would strip it first to see how deep the damage is - this will preserve much of the age in the wood. (Don't use water based stripper - most raise the grain) If the damage is a little deeper than the finish, try using a scraper sometimes that's all it needs is a few swipes. If it's deeper than that - then run the damn thing through a drum sander and get on with it!! :eek:

Another thing I have found is a coat or two of buttonlac (1lb cut) along with the amber shellac will usually age the new finish enough that it matches the old pretty well.

Good luck, Wes

[Dennis Peacock]

As many THOUSANDS of these were produced, I would sand the silly thing to bare wood and re-shellac, not worrying about the value of it, unless a museum curator was commisioning you BIG BUCKS to worry about such things.

If it's simply QS oak veneer over ply - well, there you have it - it's junk already - fix it and get on with life my friend!!

So where have YOU been Todd? :confused: :p :D

I hear whacho is sayin'....I'm just concerned that my client may not want that, so I'm trying to get everything ready for whatever direction is decided. I only have 3 weeks to have it all done before the client comes from WI to pick it up.

Wes,

I got what you are saying....I'm heavily leaning towards doing just as you stated. I'll know more if I can ever get the client to contact me. :rolleyes:

[Tom Seaman]

I refinished one of these last year. Once I had the finish off, I was left with some ugly stains and water rings. I used Oxalic Acid to 'bleach' them out, and was left with a clean, evenly colored surface to start over with. It worked surprisingly well, and I didn't mind testing it on my $15 yard sale purchase. If I can find any before and after pictures (and figure out how to post them), I will. Good luck with it.

Tom

[Michael Cody]

Dennis, my mom has 4 of these in the basement as end tables.. It's not worth all that much .. On the ones my mom has, she sanded them down but you could also replace with a new top since it's just veneer. I wouldn't fret a whole lot about either. It doesn't have the value to be spending a lot of time with. My part in this was to sandblast the bases and re-spray them with semi-gloss black paint. They look real nice in her old 70's era designed wrought iron decorated, red/black carpet, barnwood paneled basement. You should see the slick 70's disco bar w/builtin 8-track & LP stereo -- plus the lights behind the front panel that flash to the music the stereo puts out... if she keeps it like that long enough -- that type of design will make a comback.

[Wes Bischel]

Check out the latest FWW - pg 102 mentions oxalic acid as per Tom's post and on pg 45 a note about tinting shellac (gonna have to try that). How's that for timing!

Wes

[Dennis Peacock]

Check out the latest FWW - pg 102 mentions oxalic acid as per Tom's post and on pg 45 a note about tinting shellac (gonna have to try that). How's that for timing!

Wes

Wes,

I would check it out, but mine hasn't arrived yet. I'll check it out if mine shows up next week sometime.

So maybe I not working on a valuable antique after listening to a lot of you and your experiences. It's just that I approach these things cautiously because the last antique I did (when I worked at a paint store and refinished antique in the back when business was slow) was an 1898 South Carolina original buffet. I refinished it and repaired one leg. The store owner found it in the city dump and paid me an extra $50 to refinish and fix it. Two weeks later he came back and told me I did a fine job and wanted to thank me. What he didn't tell me, but his wife did later on, that he took that thing to the local antique auction and sold it for $17,000.!! :eek: I was careful during the refinish work to preserve the original date paper stuck to the back from the company that made the piece and little did I know then that this alone would boost the selling price of that piece. Live and learn.!!! :(

[David Rose]

What the collector folks are saying is true. But the value still isn't there. I turned down a serious offer of $125 for Cheryl's recently. They told us that was top market price for a treadle machine in pretty nice condition. Of course, one day things will change. The more accurately done the better. But I've seen thousands of guns over the past 35 years that were dropped in value by easily as much as 90% by a quality stock refinishing or something as simple as adding sling swivels. Read that, a starting value of $2000 dropped to $200 or $300 by "improving" the piece!

The less done the better for *future* value. As far as current value goes, it probably makes little difference except to the owner.

David


Wes,

I would check it out, but mine hasn't arrived yet. I'll check it out if mine shows up next week sometime.

So maybe I not working on a valuable antique after listening to a lot of you and your experiences. It's just that I approach these things cautiously because the last antique I did (when I worked at a paint store and refinished antique in the back when business was slow) was an 1898 South Carolina original buffet. I refinished it and repaired one leg. The store owner found it in the city dump and paid me an extra $50 to refinish and fix it. Two weeks later he came back and told me I did a fine job and wanted to thank me. What he didn't tell me, but his wife did later on, that he took that thing to the local antique auction and sold it for $17,000.!! :eek: I was careful during the refinish work to preserve the original date paper stuck to the back from the company that made the piece and little did I know then that this alone would boost the selling price of that piece. Live and learn.!!! :(

[Wes Bischel]

Dennis,
Sorry about not giving more info - I'm usually the last to know :rolleyes:

The oxalic acid was used to bleach out "blotchy bluish" stains on oak (possibly iron/tannic acid stains from steel wool ). Said oxalic acid is available in hardware stores - dissolve in water. Wipe or brush on and rinse but do not neutralize.

The bit on shellac tinting was to use SealCoat blond shellac and add dyes such as TransTint or Wizard Tints to get the desired color. Faster and easier than mixing your own shellac and facilitates a better match. Then apply as you would normally.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Wes

[Tyler Howell]

What ever is done here I know it's in the right hands. Seen and have some of the fine work that comes out of this shop. ;)

[Jay Knoll]

Dennis, it sounds like you're getting great advice, but no one has suggested contacting your client to find out his/her intentions regarding the piece. If it is to be "polished up" for sitting in a house that might suggest one way of doing things, if the client thinks that this thing has a lot of value, then that would suggest a more careful approach to the restoration.
I've used oxalyaxic acid on when working on boat woodwork, be careful if you don't flush carefully, you won't get a great result. This could cause a problem with a veneered finish.

Jay

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis, it sounds like you're getting great advice, but no one has suggested contacting your client to find out his/her intentions regarding the piece. If it is to be "polished up" for sitting in a house that might suggest one way of doing things, if the client thinks that this thing has a lot of value, then that would suggest a more careful approach to the restoration.
I've used oxalyaxic acid on when working on boat woodwork, be careful if you don't flush carefully, you won't get a great result. This could cause a problem with a veneered finish.

Jay

Howdy Jay,

I've never used Oxalyic Acid so I wouldn't know for sure it real impact on this particular piece for restoration purposes. I have emailed the client to see what their real wishes are, but no word back from them yet.

The client is in Tahoma, WI (spelling?) and working this far apart has it difficulties. I have spent the last week just regluing veneer's that were seperating from various pieces.

Some pieces still have shellac on them while several places on the entire piece no longer has any topcoat left on them. It appears that is has been subjected to water at some time in it's life and has caused a lot of damage overall. I now have it completely disassembled and doing the final reglue work using Franklin's Hide Glue. I have learned to really like this stuff. It works really well, easy to cleanup after and can't been seen as readily when finishing a project. It has a nice long open time so I can work at a delicate pace and clamp up until the next day.

The next thing I need to do is order some Blonde Shellac so I can at least start putting shellac on the entire cabinet. I've just about decided to remove all the remaining shellac and start the topcoat from just the stained wood.

Good approach on recoating with shellac?

[Mike Wilkins]

I have dealt with this type restoration before. I used wood bleach to take
out all the color. Nasty stuff-use outdoors only. Then you can stain with
whatever color you like to get back to the original look. This will get rid of
the water stains as well.

Good luck and watch those fingers.

[James Carmichael]

Pretty Fugly there Bud.
Antiques Road Show would say lightly clean it. Refinishing woud de-value the piece!!!!
Sorry I can't be more help:confused:


LOL Tyler, I never will forget the look on they guy's face when an appraiser told him he had performed an $85,000 refinishing job on his Colonial wardrobe. It had been common practice to paint pieces to make them look like mahogany and the "cheap paint" he had stripped was original finish.

Don't think that's the case here, my mother owns at least 3 of those things. One she removed all of the wood from and added a marble top for a patio table.