Spray or wipe?

[Brett Nelson]

I've got a ton of finishing to do. I'd love some advice from you expert finishers. Here are the different projects:


Dye Stain Fireplace Mantle, False Treads, and Railing

All cherry wood
Looking for that antique cherry look, like the wood has aged 30 years.

Dye Stain Kitchen Cabinets

All cherry wood
Want same finish as above but will need to be more durable for kitchen cabs.

Dye Stain Bathroom Cabinets

Alder
Going for more of a dark brown mahogany color

Paint Kitchen Cabinets, Entertainment Center, Bathroom Cabinets

All will be an off-white
Some will then be glazed with a vandyke brown


I have a nice HVLP/compressor setup that I was planning on using for this. Called a company that sells lockwood dyes and the guy said I should use water soluable dyes and wipe them. Said that an HVLP gun would put too much material on the wood. Also said that if I was bent on spraying that I should just use a conventional. I've never had that recommendation before. Does he know what he is talking about?

Also, any recommendation on dye stain and cabinets paint brands? I was gonna use lockwood dye stains and SW pre-cat paint.

[Jamie Buxton]

My current favorite scheme with dye stain is to spray it (with an HVLP). I use Homestead's Transtints in the liquid form, dissolved in denatured alcohol. Then I spray a Target waterborne clearcoat over that. I spray two coats, skitter sand, and spray a finish coat.

You can also use Transtints to color the lacquer directly. Narayan Nayar has a post about this: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=100032

[sean m. titmas]

i use Transtints dyes that i dilute with rubbing alcohol applied with HVLP in very light coats to reach the desired tone.

I really like the ML Campbell line of finishes. for pigment in kitchens and baths i use Resistant with a top coat of Krystal conversion varnish. this system is fairly simple to mix and apply and produces excellent results that are very durable.

you can also apply the Krystal over the dye or any other stain.

[Rob Cunningham]

I use TransTint in distilled water or a 50/50 mixture of distilled water/denatured alcohol. Spray light coats until I get the color I want. They can also be wiped on. I top coat with Target EM6000 (USL) or EM2000. TransTint can also be added to the topcoat and used as a toner to tweak the final color. I spray with an LVLP gravity feed gun, don't know why he would suggest a conventional gun.
Target also sells the EM6000 in a pastel base that can be tinted to your desired color.
For cherry, I think BLO gives a nice warm aged look, then topcoat for protection. The cherry will darken naturally with time, but the BLO gives it a head start.

[Prashun Patel]

Have never sprayed dye, but my fave method is applying it diluted in water with a sponge. If you work quick, and start diluted, you can sneak up on the color really well.

Of course, on all that wood, you might appreciate shooting it in DNA and then not having to deal with the grain raising water would force. I wouldn't recomend WIPING DNA, because you risk streaking; dries too fast.

You should search FWW online for some antique cherry finishing techniques. I've found them useful for finishing walnut and mahogany.

You should also consider glazing with dark brown after coloring. That'll really add dimension and antiquing.

The trick will be determining whether you need dw shellac sealers between the different coats.

[Michael Pyron]

yes, that's a fair amount of wood work to stain...

I'd recommend doing it by hand for one simple reason: I have seen plenty of people hose spraying of stains (supposed professionals)...

[Brett Nelson]

Thanks guys, it seems that there is at least one popular vote here with the Transtints.

I really was planning on using DNA dyes because the idea of grain raising and resanding all those doors is annoying.

I have no idea when it comes to shellac. I've never used it before. I'm really new to finishing with these materials. My experience is in regular construction painting and automotive paint. Furniture finishing and cabinets are a different world for me.

I would love it if someone could break down a basic process for me in elementary terms.

[Brett Nelson]

I just really worried about the finish coming out blochy on the cherry if I don't spray it.

[Michael Pyron]

the SW hi-bild precat is some good stuff, just make sure to use a precat vinyl sealer as your first coat and apply the top coats over that...

I think the advice to use conventional (i.e. high pressure) as opposed to HVLP for the stain is a joke...you'd have stain flying all over the place...

definitely spray the lacquer, but as I noted I've seen a lot of 'professionals' ruin a stain job by spraying it...your job is not big enough to warrant setting up for spraying stain IMHO anyways...the amount of time you would spend cleaning out your gun would most likely be = to the amount of time saved by spraying...

elementary terms?

apply stain and get the color/effect you desire (test on scraps first)...let dry completely...

using SW products I've found for my system a 15-20% reduction with thinner works best for me (as an example I will add 20-25 oz of thinner to 1 gallon of lacquer)...I apply a medium thickness coat of sealer (MUST be pre-cat when using a pre-cat top coat) and wait about 45 minutes then sand the raised grain off with 320 grit sand paper...if you use 220 grit it will take 2 top coats to fill the scratch lines...I've found that spraying a thick layer of sander sealer is a negative as it takes a long time to sand and can lead to future finish failure....

then I apply 1 or 2 top coats...definitely do NOT go for a super thick build (i.e. more than 2 top coats)...this pre-cat stuff is pretty hard and layering it on too thick will most likely cause finish failure in the future...read the PDS for the product and it will detail a maximum dry film thickness (I prefer to stay under that so that in the future it would be possible to add another if needed for repair/refinishing)..also with a thinner finish layer the product will react better to smashing blows to the wood...it will tend to flow with the dent as it were...too thick and the finish will shatter and flake off...if you go for 2 top coats then only use 320 grit to sand any junk off between coats...sure, 220 sanding goes a lot faster, but do you really want to see scratch lines? the top coat dries a lot slower than the vinyl sealer and I've found that I have to typically wait an hour before I sand blemishes then apply a second top coat....even if you don't sand I would recommend waiting that long so that solvents can out gas and not be trapped

in specific I use SW T67 F6 vinyl sealer (again you MUST pre-catalyze this if using a pre-cat top coat) and T77 F57 pre-cat Hi-Bild for the top coat...the top coat is a medium rubbed effect which to be honest is still pretty darned shiny...certainly not a full gloss, but not a satin either...its definitely glossier than some Deft rattle can semi-gloss I used to spray some samples recently to show a client (didn't want to set up a complete spray system just for 2 small pieces)