question

[Keith Christopher]

I was looking at some turning from a local turner in the area. He called himself a 'master turner' but honestly his turnings were not what seemed 'masterful' lots of tool marks still in, poor finish on some. So my question is this, is there an accrediation that can be obtained to be a master wood turner. I'm not talking about something like Marc Adams master courses, but a nationally recognized one. I know for glass blowers there is a series of apprenticeships that have to be performed and a board (so to speak) before you can be a master glass blower....

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Keith,I'm not aware of any but I'm a relatively new turner as I've only been at it for 3 years.Tool marks....poor finishes.....Master Turner?.........I'm far from a master turner and my turnings seldom have tool marks or poor finishes.

[alex carey]

Not that I know of, but I think once you start lecturing and people start listening you are a master turner.

[Mark Norman]

I accredited myself:p

I have set up my own apprenticeship too:D

[Aaron Wingert]

Not that I know of, but I think once you start lecturing and people start listening you are a master turner.

That all depends on the audience I guess. My dog listens when I talk but that sure doesn't help my credibility any! :D

When talented woodworkers aspire to someday be as good at their craft as you are then you've reached master status, in my opinion.

[John Lucas]

In industry an "expert" is anyone in a suit and out of town. If you look at FYI TV, the hosts are all expert this or that. Some have earned it thru several years of being on camera and have picked things up. Amy Mathews is such. Norm is a master woodworker but I think that is a claim they worked out on their show. So be a master something and let the public tell you otherwise.

[alex carey]

I more meant lecturing to people for money.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Keith I have seen the same thing here in town. Old Fitz and I started turning about the same time. I probably will never be a master turner but I can say I don't have or leave tool marks, sanding marks and my finishes are fair but these two guys work if I were to critique them would be awful. Tool marks, sanding marks, runs in the finish, etc. and even his pens don't look good. I quit doing crafts show here and the surrounding area because of these two. They go around bragging about how one has turned for 25 yrs, the other for 31 yrs and how I only have 3 yrs.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

"Master" to me, is an earned title. I'm no master, but I try not to leave tool and sanding marks...... That is the "Apprentice" title. I may be above that. I'm guessing that anyone can assign the "Master Turner" title to themselves.

Norm IS a Master. He can build a gazebo in 2 days. It would take me a month.


My .02.

[Steve Schlumpf]

I agree with Kyle in that the term 'Master' has to be earned!

In my opinion, I also believe true Masters would never refer to themselves as such. To me it falls in the same realm as referring to yourself as a mentor, or as being highly respected, or even honest as far as that goes. All great descriptions of character but ones that can only be bestowed upon you by others - meaning you have to earn it through actions!

(Wow - it's been months since I got to use the word bestowed! I feel .......... enlightened!)

[Reed Gray]

If some one else was to call me a master, then I might listen, but if I have to call myself one, then I am not. If I ever get to a point where I have no more to learn, then I am a Master, and I will end up having to quit turning because of old age before that ever happens, or my birth certificate will expire. I will be taking a 3 day workshop with Allen and Stuart Battey (huge gloat) in a week or so. I have been turning for 11 years, and have done maybe 10,000 different pieces, in all forms. I will learn a lot from the workshop, and may teach them a thing or two as well. I have had people tell me, "I have never seen it done that way before", and can never be sure if that is a compliment or an exclamation of surprise. I still do not do things the exact same way each time. There is always room for improvement. If there was an accredited program for getting a 'Master' classification, I would be interested in seeing what it would demand, but not be interested in going through the program to get a title.
robo hippy

[Jim Underwood]

I'll think of myself as a master when I quit being afraid I'm going to mess up a piece and can make the tools do what I want them to do.

In other words I won't have as many "design opportunities"....

It's a long way off! ;)

[Thom Sturgill]

'Master' is another of those slippery terms that has too many meanings to be useful.

Norm is a 'Master Carpenter' because he is HIRED to manage or lead other carpenters. It is a job title, and in that sense meaningful.

In an older sense, 'master' implied having not just finished an apprenticeship, but having proved mastery well enough to meet some high standard of your peers (thus the term 'masterpiece' implied a piece created to be judged by the guild masters in order to earn your master-ship, or one worthy of that). The guilds would only allow a 'Master' to open his own shop and train apprentices. A journeyman worked for wages and hired out to a master.

In today's world, anyone can open a shop and sell his product and thus be the 'master' of his shop, especially if he sells training too.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have to disagree with Norm is a master because he is hired. Making money for doing something it typically a "professional".

Norm is hired BECAUSE he is a master at what he does. Are we talking Norm of New Yankee Workshop? If in case you didn't know, one of the FAQ he gets is if that's his own shop. And his answer is yes. It is not a set, and NYW did not pay for it.

[Dave Schell]

Here are a couple of definitions of a master that I think will help clarify:

1. an artist of consummate skill; "a master of the violin"; "one of the old masters"

2. directs the work of others

3. be or become completely proficient or skilled in; "She mastered Japanese in less than two years"

4. an authority qualified to teach apprentices

I think I read in a New Yankee Workshop FAQ once what it meant that norm was a master carpenter and they responded with a definition close to the number 4 above: "he teaches others the craft"

[Keith Christopher]

I don't know if he called himself it or not, but he certainly had it on his business cards. I think the AAW should get with all the schools and define what a 'master turner' should be defined as. Maybe make a national certification. Oh well it got me wondering, and more so how this person could carry the title of 'master turner'

[Ray Binnicker]

I don't want to be a Master Woodturner. Folks start expecting too much. I have to much fun turning as a "Hobbist". I read somewhere that once you have published ( I forget how many) a writing on your particular skill, then you may be referred to as "Master".
Sam Maloof refers to himself as a "Woodworker".
Ray Binnicker

[Mark Burge]

I don't know what a "master" is, but if you have one and you turn it then you are a "master turner" :)

[Jim Kountz]

Im still shooting for the SMC accreditation for turners!! LOL

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Im still shooting for the SMC accreditation for turners!! LOL

Good luck!

I'm not sure any organization will accredit turners in general. Frankly, I can see why!:eek::rolleyes::D

[Allen Neighbors]

Mark, you stole my thunder. :D I was going to say that, "If you name each piece of wood, 'Master', and then turn it, you'll be a 'master' turner".
Bernie, it matters not if they've been turning for 40 years... if they're leaving tool marks and sanding marks and runs... they certainly haven't mastered their craft. If you've only been turning 3 years, and your pieces don't have the above mentioned blemishes, you are more of a master than they are.
Tell you what... why don't you copy all these posts, and print them out, and hand them out at the next craft show.... nah... just thinkin' outloud... forget it. :D
Keith, don't worry about them; when you do your best, people will begin to recognize it... Double his prices... then when someone gripes about it, just say, 'he knows what his lack of craftsmanship is worth."

[Jeff Nicol]

For me the calling oneself a master at a certain craft is self aggrandizing, as Reed stated and others also a "MASTER" title is an earned thing to be handed down by your peers. If ever I were to reach such a high state of regard from fellow turners, I would stay humble and modest and never toot my own horn. There are things to learn everyday and methods to be improved upon by one and all. Take pride in your work and listen to the insights of others and a progression of skills may lead you to the pinnicale of the turning world, but the road is long and never ending.

In some trades such as carpenter, electrician and plumber, the title of "Master" is attained after years of on the job service and taking and passing a test to prove you are qualified to hold the title and to lead the men and women under your instruction and guidance. In woodturning to take a test that would be comprhensive enough to encompass all the skills, tricks, and artistic expression would take years to complete. Since there are no "National Codes" we as woodturners have to follow, there is no reason for the test. The true test will be the test of time, as time will tell if your work will be regarded after you are long gone as wonderful, artful or timeless. I could ramble on, but we are all masters of our own passions and we live them every day. Printing in on a card proves you are not sure of your skills and hope to impress with words, let the turning speak for itself.

Have a great Memorial day weekend!

Jeff

[Reed Gray]

Just think of the 'discussions' that would result if we decided to try it come up with a 'Masters' certification program. I do like the Japanese tradition of naming some artists 'National Treasures'.
robo hippy

[Dick Strauss]

I agree with other that stated the "master" designation means everything when it comes from a group of one's peers but means nothing when it comes from one's own mouth.

We may turn bowls or spindles well, but we probably don't do all things well. We all have areas for improvement.

FYI-Norm isn't really a good turner in my book though he is an excelllent wood craftman...I don't think he turns often enough to keep his skills at a high level.

[Wally Dickerman]

Master turner? Unless I'm promoting myself for demos, selling a book or DVD, or working as a professional, then who cares?

I started turning over 70 years ago, turned as a professional for awhile after retiring in 1986, have taught about 450 students in over 20 years of teaching turning and I've done many demos at clubs, at Provo and at AAW symposiums. If someone at my demos wants to refer to me as a "Master Turner", then maybe it'll bring me a higher price...:-)). Other than that, I could care less. Most of that was in the past. So could I call myself a "Past Master"? What nonsense.

Some will say that if you know just about everything there is to know about turning then that qualifies you. However, there is no one who fills that bill.

If someone puts himself out there as a master turner, most of the buying public will probably buy that. His/her fellow turners may not.

Wally

[Mac Carlton]

I don't know what a masterturner is, but I was told ,in school, what an expert is . An (ex) is a has-been and a( spurt )is a drip under presure.
So an expert has-been dripping under presure?

[Curt Fuller]

I don't know what a masterturner is, but I was told ,in school, what an expert is . An (ex) is a has-been and a( spurt )is a drip under presure.
So an expert has-been dripping under presure?

That's as good an explanation as I've ever read!:D:D:D

I think to call yourself a master turner would be pretty pretentious. But, to be called a master turner by others would be a heck of a compliment.

[phil harold]

Are we talking Norm of New Yankee Workshop? If in case you didn't know, one of the FAQ he gets is if that's his own shop. And his answer is yes. It is not a set, and NYW did not pay for it.

I always thought it was Russell Morash's shop and part of it is the potting shed for the Victory Garden show

unless there is a new shop...

[Keith Christopher]

.....<deleted good points>.....

If someone puts himself out there as a master turner, most of the buying public will probably buy that. His/her fellow turners may not.

Wally


This is my ethical problem with this.