starting a new adventure: 3D

[Dee Gallo]

Hi gang,

I have done some experiments trying to understand 3D. I'm trying to do this all in Coreldraw and not using photoshop. Here are some test burns which show you:

1) the Gantry border with a plain black filled shape in the middle, a place to start for comparison

2) a positive/negative version of a flower with greyscale shading using the fill tool

3) a vector drawing (bottom left) converted to bitmap and then airbrushed to blend the stages of tone - both positive and negative

4) the scale test from 100% black to 10% black. All were rastered at 40 speed and 100 power just as a starting point, on a piece of cherry. I stained it afterwards to see if that would increase the contrast...it did a little.

I'd like to get some opinions on the "look" of combining 3D and line. Also, it looks like 2 passes could really get you some depth if you altered the image to engrave just the darkest areas. I want to do some more tests using the blend/fill tool and stick to 80-50-10%, which I think are the best combination.

This is a tough nut to crack! Anyone else playing with this on original art?

:) dee

[Albert Nix]

Nice going Dee, I have been wanting to dable with 3-D a little myself but I think that I have a lot of other hurtles to jump first. Food for thought!!! I wunder if you could use the stamp mode to get some 3-D effects??

[Jacob Hebert]

Impressive, Dee! I especially like how the flower came out. So, when will you teach us? :D

[Scott M Smith]

Yes, those look really nice.

[Ray Mighells]

Lookin' good Dee, the character one would make a great inlay with Hard Maple or Ivory

[Dee Gallo]

Thanks everyone, it's encouraging to see positive comments.

Jacob - as soon as I "perfect" something, I will post it here! Right now I'm working on converting a more complex filled line image into 3D and will test tomorrow.

Albert - I did use the 3D mode (although not sure what for) but did not use the stamp mode... never have so far, don't really know what it does.

Ray - I love the idea of inlay, might be the next thing to add, thanks! I've only done a few inlays so far, but they are not too hard if I keep it simple. Not up to the marquetry thing yet, but I could handle the character. I'd have to use pieces of ivory, since I only have 1" strips (piano keys), but it could be done! I do have some maple veneer I could use... hmmm

Many thanks to George Perzel which is who I got the wood thins from. They are great to work with!

Onward and upward, dee

[Jacob Hebert]

Was just kidding around about that, but I'd like to see what you come up with!

I've experimented with a couple of 3D applications on wood, if any of them work out well, the Creekers will be the first to know, I can assure you. :D

[Steve Clarkson]

Dee,

I'm so glad that you're doing this! 3D has been like a black hole to me....I've always felt that things could be so much better if I had done them in 3D. I just haven't had the time and had no idea where to start.

When you do your tests, I'd be curious to see what the image looked like using your 3D method.....and without. Just curious if it really makes a difference.

I may have to dabble a little bit tomorrow..........

Thanks for adding ANOTHER thing to my to do list!

[Frank Corker]

Nice work Dee. I experimented for a short time on 3D stuff, you just need to think outside the box a little when working with them, but your results are looking very positive.

[Belinda Barfield]

Lookin' good so far Dee. You always amaze me!

[Dee Gallo]

I did a fish drawing and applied several techniques including fills, blends, bitmap editing, outside shadows and several combinations of tones. Some techniques worked, some did not. These pix show the results of the best tests, on different woods. The wood seems to have a big effect on the outcome as you can see.

ps- please don't mention the fish is not anatomically correct... I was speeding! It's kind of a combo lateral-dorsal...

I can see that the blends work best on lighter woods, and in fairly extreme percentages. For instance, on the 3 fish pic, you can see the progression of going from lighter to darker percentages, especially on the head. Again, the wood type and grain in a specific place has a big effect on this.

I can also see that putting a finish on it changes everything - in the case of lighter woods, for the better...in the case of darker woods, for worse. I used Sam Maloof's oil/wax combo, no stain. But I think if I got the 3D effect better, it would look better on all woods. OH- there is stain on the last picture - it's the same wood as the 2nd picture - sorry!

Next phase is a bird. See you then!

[Dee Gallo]

I think this is actually the mahogany wood - I'm not very good at recognizing woods... this one does have only oil on it which darkened the engraving a bit. It burned a lot darker than the cherry in the first place too.

:D dee

[David Fairfield]

Well, I think you've officially figured out 3D lasering. :) Nice work, Dee! Classy and traditional.

Dave

[John Noell]

Personally, I think the shallower 3D works best. (And your art work is gorgeous!) My efforts also leave the rough grain and when I did some work like your second flower, my wife looked at it and was not impressed. On acrylic, I tried additional passes at lower power and slightly out of focus to try and smooth it, but it only helped a very small amount. Technically impressive but most of the time I don't really like the final look. Your three fish panel is a MAJOR exception!

[Dee Gallo]

Thanks, John! I just finished working on a bird which will be my test design tomorrow. We shall see if I learned anything or just got lucky!

I like the look on your acrylic board - it's subtle and looks plenty smooth to me from here. Very bas-relief artsy. Did you make the design in CorelDraw as shapes? I can't decide if I like the paint or draw technique better. I'm focusing on blend filled shapes now, but it is a LOT easier to make the art in paint for me.

cheers, dee

[Bill Cunningham]

My old TT does not have a 3D setting in the driver, but using the stamp mode on that 3D file thats been posted here someplace, this is what i got..

[Rodne Gold]

I dont have pics , but we do "3d" differently , what I do is assign 4-7 power ratings to different colours and do a multidepth type engraving
The big difference tween that and 3d is that generally 3d will laser or process the WHOLE area of the pic , often never leaving clean unengraved surfaces.
Its not possible to do this with raster files tho.
What stamp mode does is engrave "shoulders"
IE instead of this || it engraves like this /\
I have never found 3d work profitable and hardly ever use it as the results are so variable its hard to predict what you gonna get.

[Andrea Weissenseel]

They look pretty good Dee

I "played" around quiet a bit with 3D and got some pretty good results with the blend and countour tool, but it only came out good with certain kind of shapes - e.g. stars came out real good

[Randy Walker]

Realy nice Dee. When you get around to doing inlay you might want to look up some of this stuff. Its shell in sheet form. www.aquabluemaui.com (http://www.aquabluemaui.com)

[Dee Gallo]

Okay! I think I might have a grip on this. The first picture shows you the raw engravings, the one on the left before I adjusted the branch and some small details. The one on the right is my final attempt. The 2nd picture is oiled on the left and stained on the right. The 3rd pic is the same image done without carving out the background.

For my purposes, I need to remove the background so that's why I went in that direction.

I am willing to share the file for this (or the fish) so you all can see what the percentages are and so on...if anyone is interested.

cheers, dee

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Fantastic work! Did you draw the image yourself or was that from a clip art collection? (If you drew it yourself, you have great talent!)

[Dee Gallo]

Thanks, Mike. I rarely use clipart... and if I do, I change it so it's not the same. These images were my own drawings.

:) dee

[Mike Null]

Dee

Very impressive work. Congratulations!

[nancy barry]

I would definitely be interested.. thanks, nancyB

[Dee Gallo]

Nancy,

Since I've gotten several requests, I decided to post the file here rather than ask a lot of people for their email. I put both designs on one document.

It's in a zipped folder and saved in coreldraw 10, so everyone should be able to open it.

Thanks to everyone for their nice comments!

:) dee

[Frank Corker]

You've done a great job, love the birds Dee.

[Andrea Weissenseel]

Okay! I think I might have a grip on this

Looks like :D the birds are beautiful - thank you for sharing the file

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Dee,

3D or no 3D, your drawing is quite stunning.

Break time is over. Back to yard work & chores on a holiday weekend. ... when is all this engraving work going to make me independently wealthy?

[Richard Rumancik]

. . . I'd like to get some opinions on the "look" of combining 3D and line. . . .
This is a tough nut to crack!

Dee, seems like you have successfully cracked it . . . I really like the bird and flower image.

To answer the above question, though . . . in your original image the border is 3D and the symbol inside is line art (one depth.) You asked for opinions - well, seems to me that the 3D border takes attantion away from the image inside. That's probably why some people suggested inlay. The inside needs enhancing to make it more visually striking. If you didn't want to do inlay maybe the "applique" idea in a different wood would work.

The other option is to make the inside 3D as well - carve a trough around the outside of the symbol and have the symbol raised instead of incised. I don't think it would take more laser time as you are aleady rastering the outside.

Anyway, it's looking good . . . you seem to have the technical end figured out. Let us know how the marketing goes.

[Dee Gallo]

Dee, seems like you have successfully cracked it . . . I really like the bird and flower image.

To answer the above question, though . . . in your original image the border is 3D and the symbol inside is line art (one depth.) You asked for opinions - well, seems to me that the 3D border takes attantion away from the image inside. That's probably why some people suggested inlay. The inside needs enhancing to make it more visually striking. If you didn't want to do inlay maybe the "applique" idea in a different wood would work.

The other option is to make the inside 3D as well - carve a trough around the outside of the symbol and have the symbol raised instead of incised. I don't think it would take more laser time as you are aleady rastering the outside.

Anyway, it's looking good . . . you seem to have the technical end figured out. Let us know how the marketing goes.

Richard,

Thanks for your opinion - I agree that the 3D takes the focus off the line art - I would fix the image to balance the two if I were going to use that. But that Gantry border (taken off the eagle sample they sent) was just used for comparison. It doesn't "go" with my drawings stylewise. It was a good experimental starting point. I like both of your suggestions, either inlay or raising the character would work well.

As far as marketing goes, I will have to come up with about 5 or 10 designs, which at this point should be fast and painless. My next hurdle is the finishing to match 80 year old cases. I am looking for a quick spray with an airbrush, coat of lacquer, buff with Beall - maybe 10 minutes not counting drying time. Once that is perfected, I know I can sell lots of these if I can keep the price around $50 each. I have a client list of 200 or so. The bird design took 14 minutes to engrave, one pass. The R&D pays for itself in volume. The whole item will be only 6" x 9" max. and the engravings will actually be smaller and much more simple (like just the character) than the bird in most cases (= less time).

Anyway, that's my plan.

cheers, dee

[Richard Rumancik]

Okay, I understand that you weren't actually trying to merge the two different artworks into one product, just testing the concept of combining tem. Line art and 3D might be made to work together visually if the central item was 3D and the "border" was 2D but probably not the other way around.


. . . The bird design took 14 minutes to engrave, one pass. The R&D pays for itself in volume. The whole item will be only 6" x 9" max. and the engravings will actually be smaller and much more simple (like just the character) than the bird in most cases (= less time).

If you can do a 3D image like that in 14 minutes then I think you may have something. We have been talking about 3D laser engraving in another thread of Harry's as well; I'm sure you saw it. Many people have commented on the marketing isssue with 3D (finding willing customers.)

However, if you can add that kind of decoration to a wooden box or other wood item, or just sell it as a plaque, then it looks like it can be viable. Especially since your images are original and not clipart. It's when you get into the 60-minutes-plus kind of thing for a small graphic that the financials just won't work. For 60 minutes of laser time most people want $60 or $90 or maybe more depending on equipment. That usually prices a plaque or box or desk gadget out of reason. I realize that your image is a shallower image than 3D routing, but personally I like the look and would probably not attempt a deeper cut with the laser as I doubt it would result in as good an appearance. It is a bit like sandcarving - trying to create the illusion of depth without actually being very deep.

Somehow I have doubts that I could do that image in 14 minutes on my 30 watt machine - but I haven't experimented with 3D for a while.

Please keep us posted as to the feedback you get from your customers once you get a few products made up.

[Abdul Baseer Hai]

I remember somebody was looking for a 3D image of the famous ship.
I dont remember which thread but here it is.

Abdul

[Dave Johnson29]

I rarely use clipart... and if I do, I change it so it's not the same. These images were my own drawings.


Dee,

Once again you knock me out with your talent. I really envy your skills and imagination.

You have no idea what it is like to be stuck in a world full of straight lines, uniform arcs and neatly joined corners and then see something like that bird.

I realize I have "art" in some of my skills but I really am amazed at people with your skills. My "art" can be easily taught, but yours... <sigh>

Dee-fan #1. :D

[Scott Shepherd]

Dee,

Once again you knock me out with your talent. I really envy your skills and imagination.

You have no idea what it is like to be stuck in a world full of straight lines, uniform arcs and neatly joined corners and then see something like that bird.


Amen to that Dave! I wish I could figure out how to get paid for staring at a blank screen all day trying to come up with something from scratch. I'd be rich, I tell ya, rich!

It's always amazing to watch a true artist work. I wish I saw things like that too, but I don't.

Keep up the beautiful work Dee!

[Belinda Barfield]

Dee,

Once again you knock me out with your talent. I really envy your skills and imagination.

You have no idea what it is like to be stuck in a world full of straight lines, uniform arcs and neatly joined corners and then see something like that bird.

I realize I have "art" in some of my skills but I really am amazed at people with your skills. My "art" can be easily taught, but yours... <sigh>

Dee-fan #1. :D


What Dave said! Dee-fan #2! :D

[Dave Johnson29]

What Dave said! Dee-fan #2!

Hey Belinda,

You and Margaret T, are right up there on my fan list for creative art too, you know. :)

[Bill Cunningham]

What stamp mode does is engrave "shoulders"
IE instead of this || it engraves like this /\
I have never found 3d work profitable and hardly ever use it as the results are so variable its hard to predict what you gonna get.

Yup thats what it does. But to do it, it has to vary the power outside a line width to create those shoulders. The stamp mode engraving of a gray scale was recommended to me by Mike Clarke, and it seems to work. The minor shoulder slope that it gives to some portions of the gray scale 'do' simulate 3D much better than a normal 90 deg. burn. Although, I do have to agree, I can't imagine using this to make any serious money, but it is nice to know I can do somewhat of a 3D image, even if I don't have 'the' 3D driver on my older TT

[Rodne Gold]

Actually , the biggest value in what Dee is doing is the fact that she is experimenting all the time with her laser ... I have seen this in other threads she posts. This is the way to go , to stretch your tool to its limits and see what works for you and what markets develop out of it ... something is bound to hit that home run.

[Frank Corker]

Whole heartedly agree with what Rodney says. If you don't try, you will never know, there are a lot of people posting who haven't even tried before asking for the best settings.