Buying new table saw - need advice

[Rob Horton]

Fellow Creekers:

Just bought a new house (stealth gloat) with room for a small shop in our two-car garage. Previous was a one car garage so I've never had room for more than a bench-top table saw. But now I've got some space (and approval from the wife), I'm researching like crazy.

I've been looking at saws for awhile and have decided to buy a contractor-style saw. I'm a beginning woodworker and just can't justify the cabinet saw yet.

Anyway, I've been looking at Grizzly's contractor saw and Jet. Both are in the $600 range with the Griz having a 30" rip cut and the Jet 27" (I think).

Anyone have any experience with either of these? Would you recommend another saw entirely?

[Bob Weisner]

I was in a Sears hardware store recently and I saw a new Craftsman Professional tablesaw that Sears has come out with. The top of the line version of the tablesaw comes with a 1 3/4 hp motor, totaly enclosed cabinet and dust collection, large on -off switch, Biesemeyer T-Square Commercial Fence System. 30 inch rip capacity. It really looks like it is well built.

Bob

[Chris Padilla]

Rob,

For ~ $300 more money, you could have a Grizzly cabinet saw that will serve you for much longer than a contractor-style. However, if you are convinced you won't be diving hardore into ww'ing, then perhaps the contractor TS is for you. Just some more food for thought.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

If it were me buying a new contractors saw, I'd head for the Grizzly 2hp GO444Z. The Jet is also a good saw, don't think you could go wrong with either one.

[Rob Horton]

Rob,

For ~ $300 more money, you could have a Grizzly cabinet saw that will serve you for much longer than a contractor-style. However, if you are convinced you won't be diving hardore into ww'ing, then perhaps the contractor TS is for you. Just some more food for thought.

Chris,

Well, you've hit upon something else I hadn't mentioned. Although I'm not ready to buy just yet, the wife (God bless her) did give me the go ahead to shop for "what I needed" - isn't it great to hear those words from a wife when you want to buy tools?

So a cabinet saw is certainly an option. And do you like the Grizz tools?

[Chris Padilla]

I have the Griz 1023Z TS and it's going strong for nearly 4 years now. At the time, I didn't have the dough for a Unisaw or PM66 so Grizzly fit the bill. I can now afford such a TS but I have no reason to when the Griz has served me very well...zero problems. My TS is the only Griz item I have but there are plenty of folks on here with bandsaws and sanders that love them.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

In that case, the 1023 cabinet saw (3hp right tilt) is on sale for $795 until the 31st of August (I think). That's the saw I'm wanting, but I doubt I'll get it before the sale goes away. Tha's only $200 more than your amount!!

[Mike Cutler]

Rob. I have the Jet Contractor model with cast iron wings and the 30" Xacta Fence. It's a good TS overall, but it has a few limitations. The motor is only 1 1/2 hp, and the belt is tensioned by the weight of the motor. The first thing that you will replace is the stock belt due to vibration. Another detractor is that the motor hangs off the back of the saw, requiring more room than a Cabinet saw. This also limits the design of an outfeed table and inhibits proper dust collection capabilities. The saw is easy to tune and does work well though. The extended laminate table that they sell with the saw is junk. It's made of melamine and is not properly supported, thus it will sag in time. If you decide that you want to mount a router in the extension wing you will have to build a different table. The saw is also light in weight and is "tippy" when cutting long stock or plywood, this is why I needed an outfeed table, to provide support and stability.
If I was looking to buy a TS at this time, I'd set my sights a bit higher, and look at the Grizzly and Bridgewood Cabinet Saws. For the money there is a lot of value in their saws. Good Luck and have fun looking at saws, and don't be afraid to spend the bucks to "Buy it right the first time" My .02 fwiw

[Tom LaRussa]

Although I'm not ready to buy just yet, the wife (God bless her) did give me the go ahead to shop for "what I needed" - isn't it great to hear those words from a wife when you want to buy tools?Rob,

First off, give this sainted woman -- this angel -- a big hug for me! :eek:

Second, let me know if she has a sister. :D

Third, if Chris P says the Grizz cabinet saw is a good one, then you can believe it. He has pretty darn good taste in tools. (I'm still kicking myself for moving from the SF Bay Area to Tampa just a few weeks before Chris unloaded a bunch of his old tools in order to make room for the monsters he has in house (and/or in the pipeline) currently. :( )

Fourth, I think you should spend a tad more for the G1023SLX. It comes with the 7' rails, table, and legs so that you can rip up to 54" to the right of the blade. This may seem like overkill, but take it from someone who is in the process of building a similar table in a desperate attempt to extend the capabilities of his under-capable saw -- buy it now, so you can spend your time using the saw, rather than spending it trying to make the saw usable. Also, even if you never use the full length of the extension table, you can always mount a router in it, this giving you another table-type tool within the same footprint.

Anyhoo, here's a link to the saw on the Grizz website:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G1023SLX

HTH

Augie

[Rob Russell]

" ... the wife (God bless her) did give me the go ahead to shop for "what I needed ..."



Hmmm - I'd be thinking euro-combo machine. It would certainly make good use of your larger garage space. :rolleyes:

Rob

[Bob Weisner]

If a Grizzly tool were to need parts, is it easy to get parts for grizzly tools?

Thanks,

Bob

[James Carmichael]

If you decide on a Grizzly, you might want to move fast. My summer sale catalog (received in May) announced price increases on a number of tools at the end of 2004. No specifics by the G0555 BS is definitely going up.

[Rob Horton]

Thanks for all the advice everybody. I think I'll go with a Grizz tool for sure now - probably will copy after Chris'. Mainly due to space requirements - I mean hey, I still have to park a Honda Odyssey in this garage too when the shop isn't in use.

I'll definitely send pics as I get things closer and closer to being set up. We just moved into the house two weeks ago. And I've been shop-dreaming ever since. :D

Thanks again!

[Chris Padilla]

Third, if Chris P says the Grizz cabinet saw is a good one, then you can believe it. He has pretty darn good taste in tools. (I'm still kicking myself for moving from the SF Bay Area to Tampa just a few weeks before Chris unloaded a bunch of his old tools in order to make room for the monsters he has in house (and/or in the pipeline) currently. :( ) Gosh, are the words spewing from my keyboard worth something?? That's an awful lot of pressure...I'd better make darn sure about my opinions...yep, they're mine and I stand behind 'em! :D



Fourth, I think you should spend a tad more for the G1023SLX. It comes with the 7' rails, table, and legs so that you can rip up to 54" to the right of the blade. This may seem like overkill, but take it from someone who is in the process of building a similar table in a desperate attempt to extend the capabilities of his under-capable saw -- buy it now, so you can spend your time using the saw, rather than spending it trying to make the saw usable. Also, even if you never use the full length of the extension table, you can always mount a router in it, this giving you another table-type tool within the same footprint.
I'll disagree with you here just a tad: I should have bought a plainer jane of the G1023 and not the G1023Z. Why? I wasted money on the fence with the Z and even went so far as to get longer rails...more money wasted beacuse the fence was dissappointing. Here is what I would do if I were a wiser man 4 years ago still assuming I didn't want to fork out for grey (Delta Unisaw)or gold (PM66):

Get the G1023S (or L for left-tilt...I'm not a fan of left-tilt). Dump the fence on eBay or craigslist.org and pick up a better aftermarket fence like the Bies or my personal favorite, the Incra TS-3a. Be sure and get a mobility kit...the Shop Fox Griz sells is very nice ( I have it but mine has some problems that aren't too big a deal).

The large table you get with the G1023SLX might work for you or it might not. If you want mobility, you'll need to get the extension for the shop fox mobile base to accomodate the extra leg supports. You can get longer rails for aftermarket fences, too. Yes, I've had needs to go wider than the 32" rip the Incra allows but it is rare so I've stuck with their standard 72" rails instead of going with the monster 96" rails.

So, here we are having fun playing with your money, Rob! What do you think? The cabinet saw is already a big upgrade for you but now I'm tossing a fence your way. The G1023S is on sale for $795 and that Incra Fence is in the $300 level. Mobile base will be $70 I think.

You could be quite happy with the G1023S and existing fence but I think you definately want the mobile base. Get the fence later when you scare up a few more funds.

I was able to dump my Shop Fox fence and rails for $125 several weeks ago after they sat in the corner of my shed for 2 years gathering dust and cobwebs. I couldn't figure out a good use for it so I sold it. Note that the Shop Fox fence on the G1023Z is different that the one on the G1023Sxx table saws.

:D

[Tom LaRussa]

I'll disagree with you here just a tad: I should have bought a plainer jane of the G1023 and not the G1023Z. Why? I wasted money on the fence with the Z and even went so far as to get longer rails...more money wasted beacuse the fence was dissappointing. Here is what I would do if I were a wiser man 4 years ago still assuming I didn't want to fork out for grey (Delta Unisaw)or gold (PM66):
Hmm.... Wasn't aware of that.

Never mind. :rolleyes:

[Jim Becker]

Yes, Chris, the fence on the G1023S and G1023SL/SLX is the "Shop Fox Classic" which is a Biesemeyer clone...very different than the original ShopFox...and quite usable according to many folks.

[Rob Horton]

Chris,

I think that the 'G1023S' looks really good. Why not a fan of left-tilt though, just wondering?

I know there is a debate among right vs. left-tilt but I've never really understood the whys of it.

[Chris Padilla]

Chris,

I think that the 'G1023S' looks really good. Why not a fan of left-tilt though, just wondering?

I know there is a debate among right vs. left-tilt but I've never really understood the whys of it.Using a stacking dado will mess up your fence registration since it loads from the other side of the TS. In other words, the stacking of dado blades moves toward the fence instead of away from the fence. PITA, I think. The zero mark for your fence now is different.

The Incra fence can quickly be moved to the other side of the blade to give a psuedo left-tilt action if you so desire it for blade tilts of 45 degrees. Yes, the rip width is pretty limited (20" I think?) but it is an option.

Oh, and the real reason? The left-tilt wasn't available 4 years ago from Grizzly! :p ;) :D

[Jim Becker]

Using a stacking dado will mess up your fence registration since itl loads from the other side of the TS. In other words, the stacking of dado blades moves toward the fence instead of away from the fence. PITA, I think. The zero mark for your fence now is different.Of course, a left-tilt user will tell you that this is a non-issue since they prefer to measure dado cuts manually so that both sides are positioned "right on the line" and that with a left-tilt machine, bevel cuts on sheet goods put the good side up and help to keep it splinter-free. And that they like how bevel rips leave the off-cut on the outside of the splitter and away from the fence.

And a right-tilt user will further cite the difficulty in fitting a slider on a left-tilt saw (less choices) and the bevel tilt is less than optimum for that setup. (The reason that Euro machines remain right-tilt)

The point of all this is that it's largely a personal comfort decision whether to go left-tilt or right-tilt. And if the saw is an upgrade, many folks find it most comfortable staying with the tilt direction they are used to...although not all. My previous saw was a right-tilt contractors' style saw. My current is a left-tilt cabinet saw. Someday way in the future I may end up with a Euro slider...which will again be right tilt. Decisions, decisions...if we all stay to butt joints, it will not matter! :p

[Thomas Canfield]

Check out the fence system well along with the size of the side table. I purchased a Delta contractor saw at the Dallas woodworking show about 6 years ago because it was cheap and would fit in my garage. The basic saw was heavy duty enough, but the fence system on tubular rails was terrible and the 24" cut barely adequate. I just recently bought a 50" Biemesmeyer commercial fence and built a melamine side table on oak frame with ridgid adjustable legs. The new fence and extra table top have made a world of difference to use of the saw and accuracy. The saw is on a rolling cabinet I made from a Shop Note plan, and the open area under the t able has been handy for storing the 16 gal shop vac. You can upgrade fence and table in future, but it is extra cost and work. Get all the saw you have $$ and space.

[Joe Mioux]

Hi Rob:

In the last FWW Annual Shop Idea magazine, they rated the General table saw as the best contractor style saw. Based on that article, I bought it. 2hp motor, Left tilt blade, 50" rails. Everything was accurate right out of the box. I think that I paid around $750.

Joe

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Better fit and finish than griz with some upgrades. Double the warranty and local service if needed. Mine was dead on accurate right out of the box. I have used a Unisaw (very old) or PM 66's (2 of them) at work for since 1969. They are great saws! But, for home hobby shop or light pro use I would buy the SF again and use the extra money for more toys or wood. ;) Remember that a cabinet saw has a smaller foot print than a contractors saw.

[Bart Leetch]

Shopfox is owned by the same people that own Grizzly & is basically a Grizzly saw with white paint & different control cranks & miter gage. I have the parts breakdown for both saws & have talked to the people at Grizzly & ask pointed questions about the comparison of both. :)

[Cecil Arnold]

If Shop Fix is on your list, check e-bay. I think someone is clearing them out as I saw a number of them NIB last night for $11-1200. Don't remember the specs but I think they had the long fence.

[Mark Stutz]

Rob,
I think you've made the best choice going with a cabinet saw. I bought the JET contractors saw when I started this hobby a few years ago, thinking that I didn't need "that much saw". For all the reasons listed before, I wish I would have gone with the cabinet saw, so I won't have to upgrade. The JET is a perfectly good saw, just has all the flaws of the contractor type saws.

Mark

[Joe Mioux]

Hey Rob:

I just thought of a couple other issues before you make the jump. Consider that you will want a stacked dado head cutter, which will cost around $100.00 and a tenoning jig which will cost another $100 and maybe a few other accessories which may and probably will cost another $100.

The reason I bring this up is that your original post lead me to believe that money was an issue on whether to go cabinet saw vs contractor saw. If you can swing the Griz cabinet saw go for it, but remember you have to buy the blades for the saw. You will want a good ripping and a good finising blade or a good combo blade and a good dado blade. Those two/three blades will set you back at least $150/$200.

The other option that is worth noting is the rails. The 52" rails are wonderful when cutting a piece 36", or 39" or 42" or.....(fill in the blank) of wood. I think you get my meaning. The 52" rails on my saw cost and extra $100, but that is well worth the expense.

Hope this helps with you decision
Joe

[Joe Mioux]

Hey Rob:

One other thought. If you go with a 3hp cabinet saw, I think you will need 220V in the garage.

Like I said in my previous post, if you can swing the cabinet saw go for it.

Regards
Joe