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Scott M Smith
05-19-2009, 11:24 AM
If a customer comes to you with an ipod, laptop, other custom item, etc... How is it handled if the laser messes up or by some off chance, the operator makes a mistake?

Mike Null
05-19-2009, 11:32 AM
My laser never messed up.

Dave Johnson29
05-19-2009, 11:35 AM
If a customer comes to you with an ipod, laptop, other custom item, etc... How is it handled if the laser messes up or by some off chance, the operator makes a mistake?

Scott,

There was a lengthy discussion on this topic a few months back. I seem to recall it coming down to 2 options,

1: Get the customer to sign a release.

2: Refuse the job.

Rodne Gold
05-19-2009, 11:56 AM
There is only one "good" way if it your error and that is to make good to the customers satisfaction.
You can put a disclaimer in plain view that all goods and items are worked on or stored at the owners risk which would probalby absolve you to varying extents according to your local law.

David Fairfield
05-19-2009, 12:52 PM
Messed up jobs are FREE :D

You can also do a little preparation and inquire at the local Mac store, how one goes about getting a replacement cover for a laptop or Ipod. Its probably not all that expensive, and the knowledge will put your mind at ease.

Dave

Doug Griffith
05-19-2009, 1:01 PM
Messed up jobs are FREE :D

You can also do a little preparation and inquire at the local Mac store, how one goes about getting a replacement cover for a laptop or Ipod. Its probably not all that expensive, and the knowledge will put your mind at ease.

Dave

I used to buy covers for iPods and Mac laptops and they are practically unobtanium or very pricey... and then installation is a ROYAL pain. About the only option is to buy used off of eBay.

It might be worth offering a hardshell skin. If mentioned prior to work (or damage), it just may be enough to pacify the customer.

Cheers,
Doug

Scott M Smith
05-19-2009, 2:08 PM
I was thinking about a waiver or release also. I also think that the ipod covers would be a good thing, because if they get tired of the design, they could get a new cover.

Michael Simpson Virgina
05-19-2009, 3:02 PM
From a legal standpoint. You can have all the wavers, disclaimers and releases you want. These will not stop someone taking you to court. Just be cause you write it down does not make it so.

The most binding is a release form that each customer signs. But they can still sue you and even if you win it might have been cheaper just to replace the item.

David Fairfield
05-19-2009, 4:41 PM
When I had surgery, I signed exactly such a release that said I'd be cool with it and not file a law suit if the doctors killed me. :rolleyes:

Dave

Mike Null
05-19-2009, 5:19 PM
The fact is that such an agreement has worked extremely well for engravers for years and I haven't heard of any lawsuits.

I don't use a form but I tell my customers verbally if I think there is an unusual risk. If they're cool with it I go ahead if not they can take it elsewhere. Never had any problem.

As Rodney said, sometimes in the interest of good business practices you should bite the bullet and take care of your customer; especially if you could reasonably be expected to perform such a job.

Jerry Hay
05-19-2009, 5:57 PM
When I do a phone or something like that I tell them straight out "they usually turn out great but, sometime things happen. I ask if they have a replacement case or if they can get one. If they say go for it I do it. The only time I get really picky if it is a kid. If they are under 18 I make them bring a parent in to approve. If you do a job for a minor and their parents don't approve you will be on the hook no matter what. Even if it looks great you may have to buy them a case or worse a new phone, ipod or any other toy they have.

Martin Boekers
05-19-2009, 6:53 PM
I find this interesting as we have addressed this before in the forum.

What is interesting to me it always is asked about "what am I legally responsible for"?

It never comes up as; "what is the best way to handle customer service when a damaged or ruined piece occurs"?

If we are more worried about legal ramnifications with damaging a customer supplied object the simple answer is don't do it. Only engrave Items that you supply yourself. Then all you have to worry about are typos and deadlines;)

If I accept a piece to engrave, yes I do inform the client that even though the utmost care will be taken with their piece it may end up damaged. I have turnded things down that I haven't felt comfortable with. There have been problems, a shattered glass, a wavy engraving (bad encoder strip) loss of power in the middle of a burn. It's not always a typo!

Customer service, customer service, customer service.

The better service we provide the less chance we have of becoming an endangered species!


Marty

Dee Gallo
05-19-2009, 7:19 PM
I agree with Martin. The better service we provide the less chance we have of becoming an endangered species!

I specialize in engraving other people's vintage, not-replaceable items in a very small niche market. For this, I charge a decent amount of money and they get 100% satisfaction. It's very nerve-wracking for a new customer, but after their first time, they always come back for more and send their friends.

The only way I can do this is that I have practiced, tested and practiced again with each of my machines for each material I will use. I did not try to do a job before I knew exactly what I was doing. When I get to the engraving stage, I do a template, draw registration marks carefully, align the item precisely, test burn on tape and double check myself on all settings EVERY TIME. Seems pretty anal, but I don't want any surprises or disappointments. Plus I don't have the luxury of just getting a new substrate. At this point, I'm very efficient at it. If you ask the more experienced engravers here, I'll bet they all have their own systems for guaranteed results in their fields.

It is a bazillion times easier to work with acrylic ornaments or nightlights or wooden pens or anodized flashdrives or lasertiles. But they are not my main moneymakers, so I just have fun with them.

I guess my bottom line is be professional, know your business and your limits. If you feel confident, do the job. If not, reject it.

my 2¢ :) dee

John Barton
08-19-2009, 12:49 AM
I once spent six weeks engraving customer supplied pool cues in person at 3 shows back to back. In that time I messed up four jobs out of hundreds.

Those four jobs set me back around $2500 in replacement costs.

One of the jobs failed because the convention center did not hook me up to the dedicated power. Each time I ran the job it took down the whole row of vendors who were on the line with me. That one luckily only "cost" me four hours time to reregister the piece being engraved and figure out how to redesign the file so that the final result was acceptable to the customer.

One of the jobs was done on a guy's PAIR of high end pool cues - over $1000 each. The names were done in the perfect spot - perfect font - coloring was dead nuts perfect - I was one friggin letter off when I typed his name.

And another one I was having trouble getting a skull to engrave in a customer's cue case so I kept upping the power. Up and up and up - finally the customer asked me if it was supposed to be on fire.

Opened the lid and the skull looked great - - - - - - - - - for 3 seconds and then it crumbled into ash leaving a gaping hole in the customer's $400 case. Yeah, I forgot to FOCUS the laser properly and had it set too high off the piece and just burned it with a basically a giant hot spot on full power...

On another one I took on the MISERABLE job of trying to cover up someone else's engraving. The only PROBLEM was that that they engraved with a router bit and I had no clue HOW DEEP it was until I had made ten or twenty passes and still not gotten to the bottom. So that was another couple hundred I had to lay out to replace that cue.

Moral of the story: NEVER EVER EVER take on ANYTHING you can't or won't replace. Once you take it on and it gets messed up in your care then you are responsible for it. You can make the customers sign waivers all you like but mess up someone's prized thing and you will not like the bad mojo that comes with it.

Final note: On the day I misspelled the customer's name I started having the customers print their names in big block letters and double check them. And I double checked, triple checked them letter by letter. So later that night I had a guy bring a cue in and want his name on it. I had a BIG SCREEN tv/monitor sitting on top of the laser so EVERYONE could see the job being run.

The guy was standing there so I asked him to reconfirm that his name was spelled right and the lettering was how he wanted it etc.... He said it was.

I ran it and pulled the cue out cleaned it up - colored in the letters and handed it to him.

He looks at it and says "you spelled my name wrong". I said "no, if it's wrong then YOU spelled your name wrong."

Sure enough he misspelled his own name. I was able to do a cover up job on it and didn't charge him for it but we all had a good laugh at his expense.

I'd really be scared to do someone's laptop or Iphone. I have done a lot of battery covers though. And I know that there are businesses that do laptops all the time so they must be pretty adept at it.

Doing your own stuff - using your own stock is SO MUCH LESS STRESSFUL THOUGH. :-)

John Barton
08-19-2009, 12:58 AM
I agree with Martin. The better service we provide the less chance we have of becoming an endangered species!

I specialize in engraving other people's vintage, not-replaceable items in a very small niche market. For this, I charge a decent amount of money and they get 100% satisfaction. It's very nerve-wracking for a new customer, but after their first time, they always come back for more and send their friends.

The only way I can do this is that I have practiced, tested and practiced again with each of my machines for each material I will use. I did not try to do a job before I knew exactly what I was doing. When I get to the engraving stage, I do a template, draw registration marks carefully, align the item precisely, test burn on tape and double check myself on all settings EVERY TIME. Seems pretty anal, but I don't want any surprises or disappointments. Plus I don't have the luxury of just getting a new substrate. At this point, I'm very efficient at it. If you ask the more experienced engravers here, I'll bet they all have their own systems for guaranteed results in their fields.

It is a bazillion times easier to work with acrylic ornaments or nightlights or wooden pens or anodized flashdrives or lasertiles. But they are not my main moneymakers, so I just have fun with them.

I guess my bottom line is be professional, know your business and your limits. If you feel confident, do the job. If not, reject it.

my 2¢ :) dee

I agree with this as well. After doing all those pool cues I became an absolute expert in doing them and I believe that there probably isn't another engraver in the USA who can do the particular jobs on the pool cues that we have done. In order to do that though I had to make special adjustable jigs and work out templates in Corel to perfectly account for the taper and inlays on pool cues.

I am SURE that there are many engravers in the USA who could reach or surpass my level with some time with the subject.

I do the same thing as you - test test test test before doing it for real.

And I reject jobs that I don't feel comfortable doing.

Having said all that I do love the challenge of figuring out ways to use the laser to do things - be it precise engraving or building parts.

Roy Nicholson
08-19-2009, 7:25 AM
I have had trouble with warranties being voided on two USB memory sticks that I engraved. Both from teh same manuafacturer. Both USB sticks ceased to work wikthin six months of the engraving and within teh years warranty. They looked good lasered and white filled with name and cell phone number.

I don't think the fault had anything to do with the laser engraving but the manufacturer refused to honour the warranty.

Thankfully I have not that happen with the laptop cases that I have engraved.


Regards


Roy N.

Gary Hair
08-19-2009, 1:24 PM
If they are under 18 I make them bring a parent in to approve. If you do a job for a minor and their parents don't approve you will be on the hook no matter what. Even if it looks great you may have to buy them a case or worse a new phone, ipod or any other toy they have.

Says who? A minor can't enter a legally binding contract, but that doesn't mean that they can't purchase something that doesn't require a contract. Using your logic, if a minor bought a music cd that the parents objected to they could force the store to take it back. I think not. The store might take it back in the name of customer service, but I don't think they could be forced to do it.

If I'm wrong, I'd like to know, but I have never heard of anything like this before.

Gary

John Noell
08-19-2009, 11:12 PM
My laser never messed up.
Wish I could say the same. Right in front of a customer the laser started rastering where it shouldn't and failed to raster where it should. Ugly. It was intermittent and it was months before it acted up regularly enough to diagnose. Took quite a while but eventually we traced it to the logic board.A new board (and nearly US$1500 later) and all seems well. The only really bad part was a special acrylic piece (the only one available) that got ruined. :(

Bill Cunningham
08-20-2009, 9:36 PM
Cowboy wisdom: If things are going right, you ain't learnen !

Things that contain any text, i.e. names, poems, numbers, stories, etc. I ALWAYS insist the customer send it to me in a email, in plain text, or a .txt file.. I then cut and paste into Corel, and change the font, layout etc. to whats needed. I 'never' accept hand printed info, info over the phone, or .doc files (customer .doc files usually contain some weird font I'm not going to waste time looking for, or they can send me the .ttf file for it) if text is faxed to me, I charge a time/artwork fee to type it in, and then send it to the customer as a proof for final approval. Once approved I schedule the job, and run it. I never run jobs while the customer waits, or watches unless it's one of a large number of pieces that has already been running, and it belongs to someone else! Just my way of Goof Proofing my work.. Oh ya! never 'quote' over the phone, have them send you a email with full job specs so you can quote it right, or decline it..