Which ROS to upgrade from a 5" P/C?

[Alan Tolchinsky]

I want to upgrade my 5" P/C ROS and wonder what to buy? Is there that much of a difference with a 6" ROS? Any suggestions appreciated. Alan in Md.

[George Summers]

I've always been really satisfied with my old 5" Makita. Don't know what 6" would give me.

George

[Steven Wilson]

I just went through that, upgrading both a 5" PC 333VS ROS and a 1/4" PC330 Orbital sander. I went with a Festool 150/3 6" ROS for general work and an RS400 (3x5") to get into drawer corners and such. The two sanders are fantastic and when combined with the Festool CT22 dust extractor the whole operation is dust free.

[Pete Harbin]

I've got the 5" and 6" Ridgid sanders and I like them a lot. I can't make a comparison to the Festool, but both sanders perform almost dust free when connected to my little mini shop vac. I just got the Ridgid Portable Pro Vac to use with the sanders, but I haven't tried it out yet. I got the new vac so that I could use it with my band saw and drill press as well. That mini shop vac does well, but fills up to fast since it's so small.

But you asked about sanders, not vacs...like I said, I really like both of them. I've used Makitas, PCs, DeWalts and Craftsman, and the Ridgid sanders seem to be the smoothest from my experience. The vibration is almost eliminated compared to the others I've used, and I've been very pleased with the finish I get. The dual mode feature on the 6" model (R2610) is nice, plus I really like the feel in use.

Pete

[Dennis Peacock]

Alan,

If you really want a ROS that is very easy to control, much more quiet and has superior dust collection......Go with Festool.!!!!!

I have the 125 and the 150 (5" and 6") and was completely blown away at how nice, balanced, quiet and will do a far better job with less dust that ANY ROS sander I have ever owned.....and in 20 years of ww'ing I've owned several and tossed several.

[Chris Padilla]

Alan,

If you can manage the financials on the Festool line of sanders, they are wonderful to use and make sanding a joy. Couple the Festool sander with a Festool vacuum, and no foolin', you might actually look forward to sanding your projects. I have the 150/5 (150 mm/ 5 mm 'stroke') which is basically a 6" sander. The sander and vacuum are quiet and you'll be hard pressed to find ANY dust left after sanding. Truly a remarkable system and worth the money.

[Jim Becker]

Fe....Fes....err....you know what I mean!

[JayStPeter]

Alan,

Good question, my 333VS is slowly falling apart after I dropped it off a ladder a couple years ago. Somehow, I knew what the most popular answer was going to be ;) . I'm gonna put a 150/5 on my xmas list this year.

Jay

[Dennis Peacock]

Alan,

Good question, my 333VS is slowly falling apart after I dropped it off a ladder a couple years ago. Somehow, I knew what the most popular answer was going to be ;) . I'm gonna put a 150/5 on my xmas list this year.

Jay

Jay,

You won't be sorry you did.!!! :rolleyes: :)

[Alan Tolchinsky]

O.K. guys I shouldn't be surprised at these answers. Boy you sure do like your Festools. There must be something to it. :)

I'm going to check out the Rigid 6" first. Anybody have a first hand opinion on the Festool/Rigid difference besides a lot of $$$$? Please don't take this as sacrilege to ask this. :) Alan in Md.

[Chris Padilla]

Well, the price might make you sorry INITIALLY but you will quickly (like within 30 seconds) declare it was money well spent. Definately by the time the credit card bill comes due with it on there, you will be only too happy to pay it...well, maybe not that thrilled but you won't mind!!! :D :D

It still remains to be seen how these sanders hold up over the years but Festool does back it with a 3 year warranty...mighty fine in this typical1-year warranty business.

[Dan Mages]

I purchased a special pad for my PC 5" that converted it into a 6" unit. Now, if you want to make this thing run like a bat outta hades, take off the belt that is under the pad. It will now sand its way through your wood faster than greased lightning!

Dan

[Ian Barley]

Here comes another vote for the festool - I just got the 150/5 and it is a dream. So happy to toss my old yellow hunk of junk.

[Steven Wilson]

Alan,

Good question, my 333VS is slowly falling apart after I dropped it off a ladder a couple years ago. Somehow, I knew what the most popular answer was going to be ;) . I'm gonna put a 150/5 on my xmas list this year.

Jay

You might want to look at the 150/3 instead, the shorter stroke (3mm vs 5mm) gives a nicer finish than the 150/5. It sort of depends on how agressive you like your sanders. In addition to the 150/3 and RS400, I also picked up a Rotex for hogging off gobs of material and probably polishing. The Rotex might be another contender. Try to spend some time with the sanders and then figure out which one(s) will work best for you.

[Lloyd Robins]

Another vote for Festool. I love my 150/5

[Chris Padilla]

You might want to look at the 150/3 instead, the shorter stroke (3mm vs 5mm) gives a nicer finish than the 150/5. It sort of depends on how agressive you like your sanders. In addition to the 150/3 and RS400, I also picked up a Rotex for hogging off gobs of material and probably polishing. The Rotex might be another contender. Try to spend some time with the sanders and then figure out which one(s) will work best for you.
Steve,

I'm going to get a Rotex and sell off the 150/5 and replace it with a 150/3 to get a bit better finish. The Rotex, however, is quite versatile and I may just stick with that for a while.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Steve,

I'm going to get a Rotex and sell off the 150/5 and replace it with a 150/3 to get a bit better finish. The Rotex, however, is quite versatile and I may just stick with that for a while.

Chris, For general furniture making, which Festool would you recommend? The 150/5 sounds like it's too aggressive for a fine finish.

[Chris Padilla]

Alan,

The Rotex is the most verstatile of the bunch but it is $400 I think.

The two ROS (150/3 and 150/5) are $225 I think. If you had to pick just one of those and didn't plan to get any other ROS for a while, you can't go wrong with the 150/5.

I've sanded to 600/800/1200 using the 150/5...it does a great job and the finish is excellent. You won't be disappointed. Pick up a good assortment of sandpaper from Festool as well. Realize they have a special 9-hole pattern. I think Klingspor makes sandpaper that fits the Festool as well but I've heard they aren't much better price-wise than what Festool offers.

[JayStPeter]

I made my decision to get the /5 based on recommendation from WCs Ellis Wallentine. He reviewed the Festool and Bosch sanders for one of the Mags. He thought the adjustment on the /5 made it good as a finish sander also. I figure more aggressive = less sanding.
Sorry Chris, but I don't think any sander will actually make me enjoy sanding :cool: .

Jay

[Jim Becker]

Jay, I think you made a good decision. The variable speed and other "adjustments" available on most of the Festool tools make them very versatile...more like multiple tools in many respects. "Gentle" or "Agressive" and lots of places in between is possible from a single machine. It's one of the things I really took note when Bob and I met last winter in the shop and spent an afternoon with virutally everything they sell. It's a bit easier to justify a larger investment when you get value that is not available in many of your other choices.

[Pete Harbin]

Alan,

I don't have any experience with the Festool sanders, but like I said, I really like the Ridgid.
The Ridgid 6" (R2610) is dual mode. You have sanding strokes of 1/8" and 1/4", so the 1/8" setting is the same as the Festool ETS 150/3, but the 1/4" setting isn't as agressive as the Festool ETS 150/5's 3/16" stroke. It sounds like quite a few of our Festoolaholics get a nice range of finish performance with the 150/5 though by varying the settings. The Ridgid and both Festools are variable speed. The speed range for both Festools is 6000-10,500 RPM, while Ridgid's is 4000-10,000. The Ridgid weighs in at 6 lbs, while the Festool 150's come in at 4 lbs, however Ridgid sports a bigger motor (3.8A vs 2.6A.)
Ridgid has been touting their new motor technologies, but I honestly couldn't comment since I've never burned out a sander before. Some of the pros on the board could probably comment more on motors.

I've seen that Festool also has a dual mode sander, but I don't know if the references are the same as on the Ridgid. I know with all the recent Festool gloats that somebody could probably chime in on that sander.

Bottom line for me is that I'm really happy with the Ridgid (with their 5" model as well) and not motivated to shop for anything else any time soon. You could take Ridgid up on their 90-Day satifaction, no questions asked policy and try one out for yourself. Should be a lot easier to bop on down to a Home Depot than to order/return a Festool to try one out.

Pete

[Scott Coffelt]

Though the F word may be the best out there, at least to many on this forum. I have the Ridgid and am perfectly happy with it. I have it hooked to my Fein Mini Vac and no dust escapes no matter how I use it. Is it worth the $$$$'s to find out, not right now for me. The Ridgid is made by Metabo a German company and is built like a tank. Anyways, you could always give it a whirl and if not completely satisfied, return it to HD. Not sure about the sandpaper on the Festool, but I believe you have to buy from them. I never really like it when I am forced to buy from one source. I like Mirca and Klingspor papers and the price is much better, but hey that's just me and my opinion.

[Greg Mann]

Though the F word may be the best out there, at least to many on this forum. I have the Ridgid and am perfectly happy with it. I have it hooked to my Fein Mini Vac and no dust escapes no matter how I use it. Is it worth the $$$$'s to find out, not right now for me. The Ridgid is made by Metabo a German company and is built like a tank. Anyways, you could always give it a whirl and if not completely satisfied, return it to HD. Not sure about the sandpaper on the Festool, but I believe you have to buy from them. I never really like it when I am forced to buy from one source. I like Mirca and Klingspor papers and the price is much better, but hey that's just me and my opinion.
Scott,

The Festool does use a different paper but the extra hole in the center is precisely why it works so well, not only in dust collection but in keeping the paper from loading up as well. This contributes to its legendary long life and therefore cheaper operating cost. Interestingly, even though their tools are not cheap, their perishables are very reasonably priced and with the aforementioned high quality.
As far as 150/5 vs. 150/3 vs. Rotex in regards to attainable finish, this is not really much of an issue. Because Festool offers some very fine grades it is easy to get superb finishes even with a larger orbit. Festool has a link on their website to a Rotex summary by Stother Purdy where he works from direct drive mode to detached random orbit and back to direct drive with a polishing bonnet with great results. The Rotex costs more but one can argue that it effectively replaces 3 tools, angle grinder, ROS, polisher. If one doesn't need that or already has one or two of those covered, then it may not be worth it.

Your Rigid is, no doubt, a fine tool. I understand that Metabo makes some very good stuff. I have not used either a Metabo or Rigid but I have a Makita that runs away with itself when not on the wood. None of the Festools do that and I really appreciate their tame nature. How does the Rigid deal with that issue?

Greg

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Alan,

I don't have any experience with the Festool sanders, but like I said, I really like the Ridgid.
The Ridgid 6" (R2610) is dual mode. You have sanding strokes of 1/8" and 1/4", so the 1/8" setting is the same as the Festool ETS 150/3, but the 1/4" setting isn't as agressive as the Festool ETS 150/5's 3/16" stroke. It sounds like quite a few of our Festoolaholics get a nice range of finish performance with the 150/5 though by varying the settings. The Ridgid and both Festools are variable speed. The speed range for both Festools is 6000-10,500 RPM, while Ridgid's is 4000-10,000. The Ridgid weighs in at 6 lbs, while the Festool 150's come in at 4 lbs, however Ridgid sports a bigger motor (3.8A vs 2.6A.)
Ridgid has been touting their new motor technologies, but I honestly couldn't comment since I've never burned out a sander before. Some of the pros on the board could probably comment more on motors.

I've seen that Festool also has a dual mode sander, but I don't know if the references are the same as on the Ridgid. I know with all the recent Festool gloats that somebody could probably chime in on that sander.

Bottom line for me is that I'm really happy with the Ridgid (with their 5" model as well) and not motivated to shop for anything else any time soon. You could take Ridgid up on their 90-Day satifaction, no questions asked policy and try one out for yourself. Should be a lot easier to bop on down to a Home Depot than to order/return a Festool to try one out.

Pete

Pete,

Thanks for putting all that info together like that. I thought the Rigid had a bigger motor (1.2 amps bigger) which as you said may account for the additional weight.

How is the vibration on the Rigid after an hour of sanding? Did you mean to say the Rigid at 1/4" stroke isn't as aggressive as the Festool's 3/16" stroke? That doesn't add up to me and seems like the Rigid is the more aggressive one. The Rigid comes with a 3 year warranty like the Festool which is surprising considering the price of the tool.

Thanks again for the additional view point. Alan

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Though the F word may be the best out there, at least to many on this forum. I have the Ridgid and am perfectly happy with it. I have it hooked to my Fein Mini Vac and no dust escapes no matter how I use it. Is it worth the $$$$'s to find out, not right now for me. The Ridgid is made by Metabo a German company and is built like a tank. Anyways, you could always give it a whirl and if not completely satisfied, return it to HD. Not sure about the sandpaper on the Festool, but I believe you have to buy from them. I never really like it when I am forced to buy from one source. I like Mirca and Klingspor papers and the price is much better, but hey that's just me and my opinion.

Scott, How is the vibration on the Rigid? My PC leaves my hands numb after awhile. I have the Fein mini so the dust control sounds good. Alan

[Greg Mann]

Scott, How is the vibration on the Rigid? My PC leaves my hands numb after awhile. I have the Fein mini so the dust control sounds good. Alan
Alan,

Your question about vibration is very important. After dust control, vibration is probably the next important issue for sanding. These are the health issues that are often overlooked when shopping for a tool. Scott can comment, per you request, about the vibration of the Rigid as I have no experience there. The Festools all have a feature referred to as Vibration Stop, which mechanically counterbalances the orbiting action. This is probably how they achieve such low vibration while still being several pounds lighter. And it is probably why there are so many posts describing their use as 'fun'.;)

Greg

[John Miliunas]

Alan, you didn't honestly think you could get away on this thread without hearing from me and my Festool addict....errrrrrr.....preference, now did you? I've got the RS400 (small, rectangular ROS), the 125 and the 150/5. Each serve a more "specialized" purpose, but if I were to have only one of the three, it would be the 150/5. I purposely bought it, because it IS more aggressive and I'm going to be sanding away a fair amount of painted face frames. I've been most happy with it. Being the semi-lazy sort that I am, I have even found myself needing to do some finish sanding and, because the 150 was already out for whatever reason, I put a finer grade of paper on it and went at it. Worked just great, even for final sanding! You already know about the dust collection, etc.... You just simply can't go wrong with Festool and Uncle Bob! :) :cool:

[Scott Coffelt]

Since I don't own a Festool I can not compare, but I will say it is much smoother than my PC. Like I said, since there is a 90 day no questions return policy, it doesn't hurt to try it out. If too much vibration for your taste or just don't like, take back and flip the bills for the Festool. Or if you have the bucks, flip for the Festool now. There is obviously many folks who can attest for their quality. I got my Rigid for $105, long story, but for my use there was no way I could swing the money for the Festool. When the PC shoots craps some day, I may look for a replacement. I still use both sanders. I am definietly a fan of buying the best you can afford, but sometimes not paying more is better int he long run.

[Pete Harbin]

Alan,

Brain freeze on my part, I wrote 3/16" and was thinking 3/8"...no wonder the last batch of clock faces I made were 1/16" too wide!!!!
The Ridgid's 1/4" stroke should in fact be more "agressive" than the 3/16".
Last year I built a window frame mirror for LOML's sister and brother-in-law. It was a 5" wide frame (or was it 5 and 1/16"? Ha ha!), 50" wide and 34" tall, rough pine. This was my first project using the Ridgid 6" sander. I used both modes down to the final sanding and got great results. I probably logged a good 30+ minutes of solid sanding time and didn't feel any ill effects in my hands, wrists or forearms. Since that time I've probably used the sander at least a dozen times for "significant" amounts of time, 20+ minutes at a shot, and lots of times for shorter durations. Feels fine every time. I've not used the sander for an hour or more straight though.

Pete

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Alan, you didn't honestly think you could get away on this thread without hearing from me and my Festool addict....errrrrrr.....preference, now did you? I've got the RS400 (small, rectangular ROS), the 125 and the 150/5. Each serve a more "specialized" purpose, but if I were to have only one of the three, it would be the 150/5. I purposely bought it, because it IS more aggressive and I'm going to be sanding away a fair amount of painted face frames. I've been most happy with it. Being the semi-lazy sort that I am, I have even found myself needing to do some finish sanding and, because the 150 was already out for whatever reason, I put a finer grade of paper on it and went at it. Worked just great, even for final sanding! You already know about the dust collection, etc.... You just simply can't go wrong with Festool and Uncle Bob! :) :cool:

Hi John,

Mentioning f______l on this board is like throwing chum in the water. Man what a feeding frenzy. :) But if so many people love (not too strong a word here) their festools then there must be something to it. Alan (getting out his arm sling)

[Dennis Peacock]

Alan,

I have the 125 and the 150/5. I use the 125 for final and fine sanding when working with plywoods and veneers. I use the 150/5 when I sanding just before the final sanding is needed. Your hands won't go numb and the control of these babies is incredibly easy on the arms and shoulders. Once you get one, you'll wonder why you ever bought anything else.

[John Miliunas]

Hi John,

Mentioning f______l on this board is like throwing chum in the water. Man what a feeding frenzy. :) But if so many people love (not too strong a word here) their festools then there must be something to it. Alan (getting out his arm sling)

Alan, if you don't give Uncle Bob a call *SOON*, you're going to be needing a full body cast! :eek: :D In all fairness to the other recomendations, let me just say that I've never used the new Ridgid line of sanders, though my own Bosch VS does little more than collect dust anymore and it's NOT a bad sander! :rolleyes: I have, however, had the opportunity to use one of the new Ridgid cordless drills (12V) and I must say, that would be my next best choice to my Festool cordless! Note that I said "next best"! In the final analysis, I guess I've just been WAY too happy with Festool to ever look at anything else. Good luck in your decision making! ("Hey Dennis...Wanna' get that cast ready?!") :D :cool:

[Pete Harbin]

Alan and John,

I guess as much as some guys are Festool addicts, and yes guys, it is time to admit that you have a problem, that I would be a Ridgid fan. Their line of handheld tools has proven to be quite impressive. (Disclaimer: Absolutely no affiliation with Ridgid or Home Depot.) I've got the 18v X2 drill, and I swear that thing will rip your arm off! It's a monster. It's been a huge upgrade from my Craftsman Pro 9.6v, which still runs fine actually. When I got the drill late last year I did a test with a buddy of mine (builds houses for a living.) We chucked up a long Phillips head driver on both ends and pulled the trigger. I would not recommend doing this...my friend is a bit of a nut. Anyway, I spun his new DeWalt 18v back on itself 5 out of 5 times. The next week he had a brand new 12v and 18v Ridgid in his box. They're both still running strong for him, and this guy knows how to work a tool. I'm guessing that some of the hype about the new motor technologies may be true. I'll probably never put a tool through the paces that he does, or even many of the guys here, but it's possible that some of these Ridgid tools I have may be the last ones I buy. Unless, of course, this Festool virus is contagious...(queue creepy music here...)

Pete

[Greg Mann]

Alan and John,

I guess as much as some guys are Festool addicts, and yes guys, it is time to admit that you have a problem, that I would be a Ridgid fan. Their line of handheld tools has proven to be quite impressive. (Disclaimer: Absolutely no affiliation with Ridgid or Home Depot.) I've got the 18v X2 drill, and I swear that thing will rip your arm off! It's a monster. It's been a huge upgrade from my Craftsman Pro 9.6v, which still runs fine actually. When I got the drill late last year I did a test with a buddy of mine (builds houses for a living.) We chucked up a long Phillips head driver on both ends and pulled the trigger. I would not recommend doing this...my friend is a bit of a nut. Anyway, I spun his new DeWalt 18v back on itself 5 out of 5 times. The next week he had a brand new 12v and 18v Ridgid in his box. They're both still running strong for him, and this guy knows how to work a tool. I'm guessing that some of the hype about the new motor technologies may be true. I'll probably never put a tool through the paces that he does, or even many of the guys here, but it's possible that some of these Ridgid tools I have may be the last ones I buy. Unless, of course, this Festool virus is contagious...(queue creepy music here...)

Pete
Yes we are addicts, but I can tell you it is not from some subconscious effort at justifying what we paid for 'em. They are truly fine tools, all of them, and since they are not private labeled like many other lines out there, you know who you are dealing with and that continuity might be fairly handy some years down the line. We read every so often where someone has a problem and they get something like this as a responce: "Well so-and-so used to make that for us but now we sell a different model made for us by some other so-and-so. Gee, you might try the first so-and-so for parts since they made it. They may have some left-over parts but since we aren't selling their model anymore we are not stocking those parts."
I'm poking a little fun at the Rigid line, but truth be told, one could do much worse than having Metobo make your tools. Does anybody know how many tools in the Rigid line are Metabos and how many are somebody elses? That would make an interesting line-up. "Now Batting For....":D

Greg

[Chris Padilla]

Hey, does Eurekazone make a ROS??? :p ;) :D

[Greg Mann]

Hey, does Eurekazone make a ROS??? :p ;) :D
Chris,
You beat me to it. In the post where the fellow is looking for table saw advice I was going to say: "You can't beat my Festool TS!:D Whoops, they don't sell a table saw here.:o "

I would suggest he look at either the Festool guide system or the Eurekazone but Ken would probably banish me for life!:D :D :D

Greg

[Jack Young]

This raises an interesting point. . . . is a culture change in the making? Given that a great majority of the typical uses of a table saw can be done with either the Festool or the Eurekazone systems, how beholden will folks remain to the tablesaw as the foundation of their shop, particularly when a tablesaw which can really handle a sheet of 3/4 ply and get a good cut, at that, tends to cost way more than the more versatile and moveable F... and E...systems? And what are the implications for worktables themselves, which, for some now, are two bats of foam on a couple of sawhorses for the basic work of cutting up a panel, ripping, crosscutting, even router work?

In any event it's perhaps a philosophical paradigm shift in its infancy, and it will be most interesting to see what comes of it. Hope I live long enough to see where it all goes.

Jack

[Alan Tolchinsky]

This raises an interesting point. . . . is a culture change in the making? Given that a great majority of the typical uses of a table saw can be done with either the Festool or the Eurekazone systems, how beholden will folks remain to the tablesaw as the foundation of their shop, particularly when a tablesaw which can really handle a sheet of 3/4 ply and get a good cut, at that, tends to cost way more than the more versatile and moveable F... and E...systems? And what are the implications for worktables themselves, which, for some now, are two bats of foam on a couple of sawhorses for the basic work of cutting up a panel, ripping, crosscutting, even router work?

In any event it's perhaps a philosophical paradigm shift in its infancy, and it will be most interesting to see what comes of it. Hope I live long enough to see where it all goes.

Jack

Jack,

I was thinking the same thing; there are always other means of accomplishing the same end. I've never used any of the "guided" circular saw systems like Festool etc. but if they work why do you need a large cabinet saw? My SCMS now does almost all my crosscutting. So I guess the question is: Can one use one of these "rail" systems in lieu of an expensive cabinet saw for ripping?

[Chris Padilla]

In woodworking, you are typically always doing 1 of 2 things:

(1) Pushing the tool through the wood
(2) Pushing the wood through the tool

There are situations where one is usually the most preferred, most safe, and "best" method to do. It is up to the woodworker to decide what works best.

[JayStPeter]

Hmmm, this thread is wandering into volatile territory here. Hopefully, we'll be able to generalize about these saw guide systems. This subject could be pretty interesting and doesn't need any brand comparos mucking it up.

I think that compared to a table saw, the guided circular saw systems fall short in a few areas:

* Most significant is the ability to cut a repeatable perfectly parallel edge. You rely on measuring and aligning the edge to a mark to position these systems. It is fraught and getting two pieces the same requires some patience. I've spent a good deal of money on accuracy and repeatability and frankly, the guided saw system is a step backward. I can see ways to design a guide that may make the huge 50" cut fence systems on many of our saws obsolete. Something that would make a nice repeatable parallel cut. As it stands now, I usually "sweeten" the cuts I make w/ my guided saw on the tablesaw when multiple parts need to match.

* Cutting thin strips (i.e. less than 6") is difficult, if not just plain unsafe. It would require a pretty complex clamping guide to solve this one.

* Joinery cuts that require depth settings would require a more accurate depth setting method.

With the first problem solved, I could see lots of us not spending big bucks on cabinet saws. Instead choosing a basic table saw and more complex and expensive saw guide system. Sort of reverse the tool expendature.

As for crosscutting, I considered my need for a CMS after getting my SmartMiter. I finally decided that parts longer than 4' are better done on the CMS. Plus, it is sometimes more convenient to just slap the piece up there and pull the trigger. So, I'm building a CMS station with storage that will cut pieces up to 9'. I also got the Delta dual-laser saw so the quick 'slap and cut' can occur that much quicker.

Jay

[Dino Makropoulos]

This raises an interesting point. . . . is a culture change in the making? Given that a great majority of the typical uses of a table saw can be done with either the Festool or the Eurekazone systems, how beholden will folks remain to the tablesaw as the foundation of their shop, particularly when a tablesaw which can really handle a sheet of 3/4 ply and get a good cut, at that, tends to cost way more than the more versatile and moveable F... and E...systems? And what are the implications for worktables themselves, which, for some now, are two bats of foam on a couple of sawhorses for the basic work of cutting up a panel, ripping, crosscutting, even router work?

In any event it's perhaps a philosophical paradigm shift in its infancy, and it will be most interesting to see what comes of it. Hope I live long enough to see where it all goes.

Jack
Hi Jack. .hello Guys.
Jack, You will see where it all goes.
And Yes,this is a philosophical paradigm shift in works.
The name is THE DEAD WOOD CONCEPT. The wood stays dead and secure under the guide and your tool slides on the rail. Nothing can go wrong.
The benefits of a guide system 're : accuracy,safety,
versatility portability.and Affortability.
Jay,You Got it Right. The problems with the guides: clamping small items clean cuts repeatability.
and few more shortcomings.
For decades now we use straight edges and guide systems.Some good some but none completed.. yet. A complete system to me means that you don't have any of the above mention problems and the same time you have all the benefits.. Imagine that the guide becomes the clamp in its entire length,(no more clamps). Imagine that you can set your guide without the need to measure every time (repeatability) and Imagine a smart material support system that not only support the materials but becomes the guide control unit and positioning system.
The only thing that I can't imagine in the reaction.
But I was very glad today when I saw this by You Jack.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In any event it's perhaps a philosophical paradigm shift in its infancy, and it will be most interesting to see what comes of it. Hope I live long enough to see where it all goes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
You will Jack.
YCF Dino

[Dennis Peacock]

OK guys....this thread is on <b>Random Orbit Sanders</B>. We aren't going to start another heated discussion on saws and guides again are we? :rolleyes:

I suspect we will need to keep this on the right track or this thread too will be locked or removed if things go the way they "appear" to be heading.

Just a word of caution is all. ;)

[Dino Makropoulos]

Hi Dennis,
You want me to remove my post? I thing we can forget the E and F and talk about the future of woodworking.
If someone gets upset by this...Ask him, why?
Let me know and I will obey without any questions.
Thanks for your advice.
YCF Dino

[Dennis Peacock]

Hi Dennis,
You want me to remove my post? I thing we can forget the E and F and talk about the future of woodworking.
If someone gets upset by this...Ask him, why?
Let me know and I will obey without any questions.
Thanks for your advice.
YCF Dino

Dino,

I know you have a good product though I've never seen it to actually review it. These threads are not to promote competition between the members or standing one tool above the other. The objective is to post our experiences with the tool in question and suggest a different tool for the job, a better tool for the job, the same tool but a newer one, and so forth.

We aren't here putting "F" against "E". We've all spent good hard earned money on tools in our time and learned some hard lessons when buying some tools. When a member comes across a tool that makes a big difference to them, they post and "gloat" about the new tool and why it is better for them.

I've been through many ROS's and finally spent the money for a good quality sander(s) that are kind to my hands, arms, shoulders, and lungs.

Some folks post tool reviews with a "kind heart". And then there's those of us that do a review with a "no holds barred" type of attitude. We post the good, bad and the why's about the tools we review. Want your product reviewed with the results posted? Send me one and I'll be glad to do the honors.

[Christian Aufreiter]

I'm poking a little fun at the Rigid line, but truth be told, one could do much worse than having Metobo make your tools. Does anybody know how many tools in the Rigid line are Metabos and how many are somebody elses? That would make an interesting line-up. "Now Batting For....":D

Greg

Hi Greg,

a while back I contacted Metabo Germany about the Ridgid-Metabo-relations. I received the information that Metabo makes a couple of tools for Ridgid. They are produced in Nürtingen, Germany. The Metabo rep. pointed out that those tools are similar (not exactly the same) to some Metabo tools. The Ridgids made by Metabo are:
corded drill and hammer drill, 6" ROS, angle grinder, jigsaw.

Regards,

Christian

[Ken Salisbury]

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead colSpan=2>Today 1:22 AM</TD></TR><TR title="Post 90328" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>Dennis Peacock</TD><TD class=alt2>OK guys....this thread is on Random Orbit Sanders. We aren't going to start another heated discussion on saws and guides again are we? :rolleyes:

I suspect we will need to keep this on the right track or this thread too will be locked or removed if things go the way they "appear" to be heading.

Just a word of caution is all. ;)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Dennis is right on. Lets try to stay with the topic of this thread: "Which ROS to upgrade from a 5" P/C". I don't know how we got from "ROS's" to "saws and guides".



http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/misc/moderator.gif

[russ bransford]

Alan,
Upgrading to a 6" ROS from a 5" gives you 44% more surface contact. The 6" ROS's work better for large flat areas. The 5" is better for rails and edges.

To bring the "paradigm" back to topic, the shift in technology and use in the last ten years has been to the ROS's. Festool and Fein have proven tools in this area.

In any case, the key to look for will be the dust extraction. With the finer grits you're creating that nuisance dust which floats around forever and gets back into the house, computer, etc.

Look for a sander that will hook to a vac with high static lift(90-100").

Russ

[John Miliunas]

In any case, the key to look for will be the dust extraction. With the finer grits you're creating that nuisance dust which floats around forever and gets back into the house, computer, etc.

Look for a sander that will hook to a vac with high static lift(90-100").
Russ

Guess I can't speak for the Fein sander (though I DO have my Festools hooked up to one of their vacuums!), but I think you hit one of the "master" keys to look for in good ROS! :) One thing we need to remember about the dust collecting ability is, when sanding, it's not just the wood dust we're concerned about. The sandpaper, being what it is, breaks down, too! Those particulates are as harmful, if not more so, and need to be kept in check! I know that Metabo and Fein make a great product, but as I had mentioned before, the Festool meets all my requirements, so I just never bothered looking elsewhere! I have to believe the dust extraction is second to none and it truly makes for a much more pleasant working environment! Just MHO, of course. :cool:

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Hi Greg,

a while back I contacted Metabo Germany about the Ridgid-Metabo-relations. I received the information that Metabo makes a couple of tools for Ridgid. They are produced in Nürtingen, Germany. The Metabo rep. pointed out that those tools are similar (not exactly the same) to some Metabo tools. The Ridgids made by Metabo are:
corded drill and hammer drill, 6" ROS, angle grinder, jigsaw.

Regards,

Christian

Hi Christian, I've looked at pics of the Rigid and Metabo sanders and they look identicle, at least the outer case. I've looked at the Rigid and it looks like a nice piece but who knows if the mechanicals are the same as the Metabo. Alan

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi Christian, I've looked at pics of the Rigid and Metabo sanders and they look identicle, at least the outer case. I've looked at the Rigid and it looks like a nice piece but who knows if the mechanicals are the same as the Metabo. Alan

Hi Alan,

I don't know either and I can understand your conern. The Metabo rep also mentioned that Metabo was not responsible for the service of Ridgid tools. I'm not an expert on electricity but I guess that there are differences between the EURO Metabo and the US Ridigd (a EURO Ridgid is not available) because we have 230 V and you have 120 if I remember correctly. Maybe the US Metabo has the same motor as the US Ridgid but I don't know.
You might want to contact Metabo USA http://www.metabousa.com/ for additional information.

BTW, as I already mentioned somewhere else, I don't think you will regret buying a Festool ROS. I like me ES 150/3 a lot.

Regards,

Christian

[Dino Makropoulos]

Dino,

I know you have a good product though I've never seen it to actually review it. These threads are not to promote competition between the members or standing one tool above the other. The objective is to post our experiences with the tool in question and suggest a different tool for the job, a better tool for the job, the same tool but a newer one, and so forth.

We aren't here putting "F" against "E". We've all spent good hard earned money on tools in our time and learned some hard lessons when buying some tools. When a member comes across a tool that makes a big difference to them, they post and "gloat" about the new tool and why it is better for them.

I've been through many ROS's and finally spent the money for a good quality sander(s) that are kind to my hands, arms, shoulders, and lungs.

Some folks post tool reviews with a "kind heart". And then there's those of us that do a review with a "no holds barred" type of attitude. We post the good, bad and the why's about the tools we review. Want your product reviewed with the results posted? Send me one and I'll be glad to do the honors.
Hi Dennis.
I can't agree with you more. If you notice I don't even 'answer' to the 'Joke.'
The're other forums as we speak that people 're making fun of the EZSmart and our CO. do I answer to them? No. At the end of the day i found out that the same people who 're making fun one day they become my friends the next day, week,or month. So I know not to step in and strart the mine VS yours story. But I consider this forum to be one of the best and one that promotes all the above that you have mention.
I found the subject very interesting and to see Jack, Jay and others get down to the point and wondering if they will see the future of the 'straight edge' or as i call it the dead wood concept. To talk about the ups and downs of the old way and the new.(And believe me, after sending a 2x4 thru my garage wall behing my 4 year old son, saving his head on the way..I know something about this.)
So I think we should use this e vs f senario and start the e & f VS t & J
Because that's what I notice from J & J.Never mind Chris and Greg.
Chris is the Devil and Greg is his advocate.
If you remember on my first post on SMC (chris again) I talk about an idea that it was so good but the same time the thought of having the idea at first was.... Crazy?
But I tell you what is really crazy. We make circles around Saturn this days and the same time we have ten's of thousands (people that is) ending up on the hospital using outdated stupid tools and ways when we try to
..play our game.
Dennis and Ken. Thanks for your kindly reminders.
I'm going to watch the GAMES now.
YCF Dino