How anal are you with the use of your table saw blade?

[Glen Blanchard]

I don’t have the need to cut MDF, hardboard or particleboard very often, but occasionally I will have the need to make a cut or two. I use a Forrest WWII blade on my table saw, and when it comes time to cut this stuff I am like a deer in headlights. I stand at the table saw agonizing over whether I should change to a cheaper blade for these cuts so as to save my premium blade for hardwoods. I have this “thing” about keeping my good blade virginal, so to speak. I guess I just hate changing blades (although nothing is worse than changing a BS blade).

What do you guys do? Change blades or just make the 2 or 3 cuts with your good blade and be done with it?

[Pat Germain]

I also have a WWII and I used it to cut MDF occasionally. One good thing about Forest blades is they have a lot of carbide which allows many sharpenings. As I see it, my tools are there to serve me. I take care of them and they take care of me. I don't mind using them hard. I just don't abuse them. I see no point is dying and leaving behind tools never or hardly used. Whomever inherits my tools will likely appreciate the wear contrasting with the shine.

I think it's similar to owning a pickup truck. Sure, towing a big trailer is tough on the truck. But that's what trucks are for. If you take care of the truck and maintain it well, it will keep on truckin'! Your saw blade is the same.

Now, I if I was going to cut a few miles of MDF, I'd probably swap out the blade.

[glenn bradley]

I use my WWII for MDF as well but, I use task specific blades for fine work so you could say the Forrest is my beater(?)

[Julian Nicks]

I use a forrest blade also. It's designed to cut wood, so that is what I do with it. When it dulls, I swap it for another forrest blade, and send the dull one out to get resharpened. There is no reason to use an inferior blade to cut mdf, since it will yield poor results.

[Jeff Duncan]

I'm glad Glenn said it first;)

My Forrestt WWII blades are the workhorses of the shop. They are regularly changed out for other blades more specific to things like ripping thick stock, cutting melamine and/or hardwood veneers, cutting plastics, etc etc.. On a good day if I'm doing various tasks I may change blades a dozen times. Takes only a few seconds and gives me the right blade for the task.
Now as for bandsaw blades, I avoid changing those like the plague....go figure.
good luck,
JeffD

[Larry Fox]

I will make the ocassional cut with my WW II but if I have much to do I change to a cheaper blade (the one that came with my Uni). I agree with PAt though that tools are to be used. I sometimes will run MDF across the jointer to clean up an edge or something. I routinely route it.

Are you spending more time agonizing over whether you should change to a cheaper blade than it takes to change the blade? :)

[Philip Johnson]

If cutting MDF with your Forrest blade is painful try cutting nails with your brand new Forrest blade. I was surprised how smooth the cut was on the nails.

[Frank Drew]

Glen,

Blades get dull over time, but dull isn't the same as ruined. Sometimes, however, there's a more appropriate blade for a specific task, and I've never found it particularly onerous or time consuming to change blades; what does it take, all of about a minute?

[Glen Blanchard]

Are you spending more time agonizing over whether you should change to a cheaper blade than it takes to change the blade? :)

Come on Larry....are you introducing "common sense" into this discussion? :eek:

Actually, I was waiting to see who would be the first to pose this question. DING DING DING! We have a winner.

[Larry Fox]

Come on Larry....are you introducing "common sense" into this discussion? :eek:

HA - actually I was asking because that is an all-to-common pattern for me. Last night in fact. I needed a piece of ply for a box bottom but could not find one of suitable size. I knew that I could make one out of a piece of BB ply that I did have and some veneer that would match the rest exactly in about 10 minutes. I spent 15 minutes looking for the ply + the 10 minute to do the veneer when I could not find one. :D

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

As a general proposition I need a bloody good reason to bother to change a blade. It's gotta be that the work absolutely requires a different blade.
Otherwise I just run 'em till they are dull and then send 'em to the sharpener.

I like Felder "Silent Power" blades rather well. I have a Ghudo blade that I think is the single noisiest blade I ever used. I have maybe 5 or so blades of various types including two Non Ferrous Metal blades, rip, combo, and fine.
I have another mess of blades that fit my old Conventional TS.

But as to your initial proposition. I think if you can get yourself a collection of blades you won't feel ther need to be changing blades all the time.

Here's the trick. When you need to send a blade for sharpening take advantage of the moment and purchase a new blade before you gotta send the other blade out. After a few years you'll always have a couple of newly sharpened blades on hand.

[Karl Brogger]

If you were using a straight steel blade, you'd have something. The carbide doesn't care about hammering through the glue in particle board, MDF, or plywood. Nails are made out of butter compared to carbide as well so the occasional nail does nothing. Pocket screws will dull a blade pretty quick though.

I swap between an 80T blade for sheet stock, and a 40T for solid. That's about it.

[Glen Blanchard]

But as to your initial proposition. I think if you can get yourself a collection of blades you won't feel ther need to be changing blades all the time.

Actually I have 3 Forrest WWII's - one that has not been used since its last sharpening, one recently sharpened (now on my saw) and another that needs to be sent out. Additionally, I have 2 other "lesser quality" blades. So having 3 WWII's AND starting this thread makes me pretty anal, huh!?

[Glen Blanchard]

I need a bloody good reason

Cliff - I would rather you settle for just a "slightly good reason". :D

[Larry Fox]

Nails are made out of butter compared to carbide as well so the occasional nail does nothing.

Well, this may be true of the carbide but a fellow Creeker has my old Forrest WW II hanging on his wall as a clock-face right now as a result of my hitting a nail and ruining the blade. I am pretty sure that the bits of carbide that were scattered around my shop when I hit a nail were just fine - they just were not attached to the blade anymore. :eek:

[george wilson]

As a machinist,I can tell you that the carbide is harder than nails,but the high speed of the saw blade is way too high for cutting steel,and will ruin the carbide PDQ. Carbide is hard,but also brittle,with very little mechanical strength. When it is used in machining,speeds,feeds,etc. have to be optimal. Interrupted cuts are bad-it can't take the shock. Stopping a lathe with a carbide cutter in the act of cutting nearly always breaks the point off the carbide.

So,be careful about what you think carbide can handle.

[David G Baker]

I keep a general purpose Craftsman blade on my saw because I frequently cut less than high quality wood (pressure treated 2x4s/2x6s etc), when I work on any quality wood I then swap out the general blade and put on a blade designed for the cutting I am planning on doing. I have a couple inexpensive miter saws that I use for cut offs. I pay good $ for blades so I respect them and try to treat them well.

[Jerome Hanby]

If I have a quick MDF cut to make, I'm lazy enough that I use whatever is on the saw. If it's more that a short cut or two, I swap to the blade that came on the saw or some Irwin's I picked up cheap on clearance. I normally am pretty good about swapping between my Freud Glue Line Rip blade and Freud Crosscut blades as appropriate.

I also hate the thought of using my "good" blades on MDF. I guess since everything is carbide tipped, it may not be that bid of a deal, but...

[David DeCristoforo]

" I stand at the table saw agonizing over whether I should change to a cheaper blade..."

The "keyword" here for me is "agonizing". If you feel this strongly about it, you could most likely have the blade swapped out in less time that you are spending "agonizing" over it. No reason not to take the best care possible of your equipment if you are so inclined. In my shop, the piece of MDF would get shoved through the blade without a moment hesitation. But then I "agonize" over having MDF in my shop at all. Each to his own.....

[John Thompson]

I have 4 40 T.. 2 20 T and two 24 T and change blades an average of 3 times a day with ripping .. cross-cutting.. etc. which includes a box jointer cutter set. The rare occasion I use ply or MDF (drawer backs.. bottoms.. jigs) I put on the stock 40 T that came with my TS. Actually a pretty good blade in this case but it became to sacrificial for those task and does a good job on both.

BTW... a blade change takes under a minute which is far less time than it took me to type this on the computer.

Sarge..

[John Coloccia]

BTW... a blade change takes under a minute which is far less time than it took me to type this on the computer.
Sarge..

Exactly. It takes me less than a minute to change a blade. I have the fence calibrated to my general all purpose blade, and I have a little sheet for the kerf adjustment for my other blades. One of these days I'm going to recalibrate everything for the largest kerf I have, and make some long fence shims. Then when I change blades, I just stick the proper shim on the fence, and I don't even need to think about it. One of these days...

[george wilson]

I never use MDF anyway,but it just SEEMS to me that it might be more abrasive than real wood.Just my own impression.I would be inclined to change blades. I wonder how fast MDF would also dull your jointer knives.

[Pat Zabrocki]

When I saw the title of this thread, all I could think is

"oh boy, I never let the table saw come anywhere near my butt!"

I think that would the beginning of the sawstop thread to end all sawstop threads :D

cheers
Pat

[James Hendrix]

I have different blades for differnt types of cuts; ripping, cross-cuting, melamime, plexi-glass, etc. I can change my blades very quickly and often do several times when ripping or cross-cutting.

[Jesse Cloud]

I'll use a good blade to cut a few pieces of MDF, but I would never ever pass MDF over my jointer blades. Takes me way way longer than one minute to change jointer blades.:o

[Dave Cav]

I normally keep an Amana combination blade in my saw, but I keep a good rip blade close by, and a couple of Ace Hardware economy blades handy for rough work. For example, when I was ripping down mass quantities of ash for my workbench top, the rip blade did a lot better and faster job than the combination. Then, when I was cutting up (for scrap) the old particle board bench top, I used the economy blade, and sure enough I hit a couple of drywall screws. They are WAY harder on a blade than an occasional nail. After the old bench top was broken down the blade went in the trash.

[Von Bickley]

But then I "agonize" over having MDF in my shop at all. Each to his own.....

Amen David...... I agree with you 100%. Make it simple, don't use the crap. :)

[george wilson]

MDF seems rather like real thick paper.Paper is abrasive. I'm not sure what kinds of glues,or fillers might be in the stuff. If I am taking the trouble to make anything,I try to use real materials. It might have its place in things like pedestals for displaying items in a store and the like,but I don't care for it,and don't trust its longevity-as in what if it got wet?

[Richard Dooling]

I am fairly new to a lot of the finer points of woodworking but I owned a shop in the 1980s and I can say with assurance that MDF is very abrasive and will dull carbide tools faster than many other materials. Of course on many jobs that was a primary material. Then again many woods have a high silica content and they dull tools quickly also. Teak is very hard on cutting tools.

I seldom use MDF now but - for a few cuts I'll just keep cutting. It's not that bad. Cutting more than exactly ten cuts 3.2' long and I change the blade.:o

.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have three saws set up and one of them always has the appropriate blade. You just need more saws......

[Larry Edgerton]

MDF seems rather like real thick paper.Paper is abrasive. I'm not sure what kinds of glues,or fillers might be in the stuff. If I am taking the trouble to make anything,I try to use real materials. It might have its place in things like pedestals for displaying items in a store and the like,but I don't care for it,and don't trust its longevity-as in what if it got wet?

George, the stuff is obnoxious, not at all pretty, strong, light or any other good qualitys. The dust burns your nose and stinks, totally dusts out your whole shop when you route it, but....

I have large sign letters that have been outside for close to 20 years made out of MDF coated with West System at a friend of mines business, and they still look just like the day I put them up, and there is no paint peeling.

It has its uses, but so does Preparation H.........

[Steve Clardy]

As a general proposition I need a bloody good reason to bother to change a blade. It's gotta be that the work absolutely requires a different blade.
Otherwise I just run 'em till they are dull and then send 'em to the sharpener.


Ditto that.

About 15 blades around here to use, I don't change em out to cut something different, though I do have one blade I use if I think there might be a nail in something.

[Peter Quinn]

It has its uses, but so does Preparation H.........

I am laughing my....well... this is a family site, I should stop there, but I'm laughing pretty hard Larry. It occurs to me that both MDF and Preparation H involve a major pain in the butt. One cures it, one causes it. I don't like getting too close to either.

In any even, no, I am not anal about my WWII blade. Maybe there was a time when it was my first and only other than some real low grade Borg stuff, but that time is long gone and I scarcely remember it. I have so many good blades at this point it takes me longer to choose which one is right for the task at hand then it does to change blades. I probably wouldn't process a ton of MDF with a good combo blade, but I wouldn't change blades to cut a little bit now and then either. Carbide beats paper and glue every time.

If you really want to run a lot of the stuff a good TCG thin kerf seems to do well in made made materials like hardboard and MDF. Best solution, keep its use to a minimum.

[Tony Bilello]

I have cut miles of the stuff and never noticed any premature dulling of my blade. Me thinks this is an Urban Legend as a carry-over from particle board which has large pieces of hard glue and chips. I would think that woods like white oak being very hard and cypress having fine silica sand in it would do far more in wearing out a blade than a material like MDF that cuts like butter and leaves a fine dust behind. Surely plywood would be much tougher on a blade than MDF.

I think I might call up Freud or some other tool maker and put this age old statement to the test. I tend not to believe woodworking books and magazine articles when it comes to technical stuff.

Does anyone here know of some kind of scientific testing in regards to MDF?

[Dan Forman]

Does anyone here know of some kind of scientific testing in regards to MDF?

That would be my question too, hard to believe that it would be that abrasive against carbide.

Dan

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Cliff - I would rather you settle for just a "slightly good reason". :D

Umm nope. I loath changing blades. It's too much like work.

I am so lazy that I have ( yes I really have) left a Dado on to make miter and cross cuts because I was too lazy ( or was it in a hurry) to change blades.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

AStopping a lathe with a carbide cutter in the act of cutting nearly always breaks the point off the carbide.

Every single time.

[george wilson]

I didn't want to sound too extreme,Cliff,but it really does always break the carbide. Any time I use the word always,I get challenged,it seems.

[Jim Becker]

I have two identical "good" blades...both Forrest WW-II 40t GP blades. I only rarely change whichever one is on my saw out for the WW-II 20t ripping blade as the 40t blades work just fine for me for most of my cutting. Someday when I wear them out and they are no longer sharpenable, I'll replace them with 12" versions...

[Glen Blanchard]

Umm nope. I loath changing blades. It's too much like work.



Cliff - I was merely trying to remove the word "bloody" from a sentence which contained the word "blade". :rolleyes:

[Bryan Berguson]

I keep an inexpensive blade on my saw and put the Forrest on when I want to make premium cuts.

Bryan

[Jason White]

I'm not very anal about it.

Of course, I usually don't spend more than $40 on a blade and it's always a "combination" type blade.

Even if I spent $100 on a really "good" one, I wouldn't treat it differently. That's what sharpening services are for. In fact, blades seem to cut better after re-sharpening than they do new out of the box -- even the cheaper ones.

Jason


I don’t have the need to cut MDF, hardboard or particleboard very often, but occasionally I will have the need to make a cut or two. I use a Forrest WWII blade on my table saw, and when it comes time to cut this stuff I am like a deer in headlights. I stand at the table saw agonizing over whether I should change to a cheaper blade for these cuts so as to save my premium blade for hardwoods. I have this “thing” about keeping my good blade virginal, so to speak. I guess I just hate changing blades (although nothing is worse than changing a BS blade).

What do you guys do? Change blades or just make the 2 or 3 cuts with your good blade and be done with it?

[Jeremy Polk]

I use a WWII, and I work it pretty hard. I think it was said earlier already, but my tools are here to serve me. I take care of them, and they happily do what I ask ... (usually).

Jeremy

[Karl Brogger]

stuff is obnoxious, not at all pretty, strong, light or any other good qualitys

Except that it is flat, inexepensive and pretty darn stable. Getting people to pay for actual wood is tough. Using plywood for wood tops, and finished ends is even tougher sometimes. Plus with MDF you don't get the rings like you do with plywood. For 1/4" panel doors plywood is also a nightmare. Rarely a true 1/4", and rarely the same thickness through out the sheet, or sheet to sheet. Once again, try getting people to pay for solid wood panels for their doors. It has its uses.

I too have cut literally miles of MDF, and have no reason to think that it dulls a carbide blade at an accelerated rate.