A couple of knots = 1 pen

[Mack Cameron]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=118220&stc=1&d=1242211720

A Perfect Fit BP pen in curly maple with a bloodwood centre band.

Finished with 7 coats of Minwax 4 hr. dry poly applied over 3 days.

[John Terefenko]

Once again nice knot Mack. I too am working on a couple right now and just like the look you can get with these. Is that knot cut on a 45 or a 60 degree???? Thanks for showing.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Good looking pen Mack! Really like the contrasting colors!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Great looking pen Mack with some nice color.

[Mack Cameron]

Once again nice knot Mack. I too am working on a couple right now and just like the look you can get with these. Is that knot cut on a 45 or a 60 degree???? Thanks for showing.Hi John; Believe it or knot, that knot is cut at 37º.

Somewhere, someone posted a 37½º knot which I quite admired. I really didn't think the extra ½º would make that much difference.

This one is 60º.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=118232&stc=1&d=1242230302

[Chris Rae]

Beautiful pen!!!!

[John Terefenko]

Thanks Mack. The 60 degree was what these were too and liked the look of yours and I wanted to scrunch them up abit. May have to play around with the angle. Yours look right for that style pen too.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/JTTHECLOCKMAN/comboknots-1.jpg

[Richard Madison]

Mack and John,
That's some nice, nice work! What is the width (kerf) of your saw blade?

[Curt Fuller]

You sure do beautiful work with you pens and celtic knots!

[John Terefenko]

Mack and John,
That's some nice, nice work! What is the width (kerf) of your saw blade?

I do not want to step on Macks post. I was just making a comparison as to what I would like to try thast he does with his. The blade I use is a 3/32" blade Freud 80 tooth.

[Richard Madison]

Thanks John.

[Mack Cameron]

[quote]I do not want to step on Macks post. I was just making a comparison as to what I would like to try thast he does with his. Hi John; Not a problem. We are all in the same boat trying to learn from each other. I'm trying to get my head around your knots with the alternating wood. Can't figure it out!!
The blade I use is a 3/32" blade Freud 80 tooth.I'm using a Forrest WW I 60 tooth, 3/32" kerf.

Some use a SCM to cut for their knots. I prefer the TS.

Another point with respect to the saw kerf. It is really immaterial the width of the saw kerf since I prefer to cut all the way through the blank. The sandwich thickness isn't as critical in that regard, then if you were only cutting partially through, which I know some penturners do it that way.

[Richard Madison]

Thanks Mack. Good point about cutting all the way through.

[John Terefenko]

The thing about the kerf though is the thickness of the knot bands. I think if you make the kerf too wide it makes the bands too wide and looks too bulky. I have seen others that use their bandsaw or even a hand miter saw and the bands are narrow. I think that is too extreme the other way unless you are doing a 6,8 or 12 sided knot then it looks good. I too cut all the way through. I too use my tablesaw. Easier to see what I am doing.

Mack I will solve your wonderment with one photo that should help in your puzzlement of the colors. It is quite interesting of what can be done. If you still don't get it let me know and and I will tell you. You are going to kick yourself though. HE HE


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/JTTHECLOCKMAN/penXblanks-1.jpg

[Mack Cameron]

The thing about the kerf though is the thickness of the knot bands. I think if you make the kerf too wide it makes the bands too wide and looks too bulky. I have seen others that use their bandsaw or even a hand miter saw and the bands are narrow. I think that is too extreme the other way unless you are doing a 6,8 or 12 sided knot then it looks good. I too cut all the way through. I too use my tablesaw. Easier to see what I am doing.

Mack I will solve your wonderment with one photo that should help in your puzzlement of the colors. It is quite interesting of what can be done. If you still don't get it let me know and and I will tell you. Nope; it's just not coming through. I can't see you cutting separate triangles and inserting them!:confused:

[John Terefenko]

OK Mack now I told you were going to kick yourself. You can skip that part. Now you noticed I made 2 pens and interchanged the colors. What you do is when you make each cut you interchange both pieces. Do this for all 4 cuts and you have what you see. Try it, you will amaze yourself. I am going to do this with 4 pens next time so they will have 4 different colors.

[Richard Madison]

The saw kerf and band thickness do not have to be the same, but the amount of material removed by one or more saw cuts must equal the band thickness. Otherwise the parts of the knot will not align correctly.

[John Terefenko]

The saw kerf and band thickness do not have to be the same, but the amount of material removed by one or more saw cuts must equal the band thickness. Otherwise the parts of the knot will not align correctly.

If you cut all the way through the blank!!

[Richard Madison]

John, Are you saying that you can make a 1/8" saw cut part way through, glue in a 3/32" thick band, and it will work?

[Mack Cameron]

John, Are you saying that you can make a 1/8" saw cut part way through, glue in a 3/32" thick band, and it will work?Hi Richard; Not John here, but I know what he meant. We cut all the way through our blanks when we do our knots.

So long as the thickness of the material that we inlay on all 4 sides is the same, it makes no difference what the size of the saw kerf is.

[Richard Madison]

Mark,
Maybe your kerf width and insert thickness have been close enough that what you said seems correct. But consider the following. You make the first 3/32" kerf cut and glue in a 7/32" insert. The blank is a little bit taller than it was. Let's say we are gaging off the "bottom" of the blank, so the inserts will all be right at the bottom. Now rotate the blank 180 degrees and make the second 3/32" wide cut and glue in another 7/32" insert. Again the blank is taller than it was, so the "top" piece is not where it was before you made the cut. Same with the next two cuts and inserts. If you could rotate the piece shown, you would see that all four inserts are perfectly aligned at the bottom because the cuts were gaged off the bottom, and the inserts are mismatched at the center and the top because the top changed position after every cut and re-glue. Note especially the misalignment of the center "X".

Not trying to be a PITA guys, but have often thought about making a knot, and your beautiful pens just pushed me over the edge. I don't do pens, but was thinking of a stopper or small box. The piece shown is about 2" square, with 45 degree cuts.

[John Terefenko]

Ok

I think it was Richard who ask the question about the kerf. Yes you can make the cut almost all the way through and leave about a 1/16" or even an 1/8" of stock left. Depends how thick your blank is. I like to work with 1". What this does when you leave a portion left, you do not have to fight lining up the two pieces of the blank again when you insert the filler piece. This means that filler piece has to exactly match the kerf. I have no problem lining up the pieces if I cut all the way through because I use a piece of aluminum angle as a gluing block. It gives me a 90 degree corner and with all things equal all other corners will be 90 degrees. The thing is you do not want to push the two piece past each other. They need to rest against the angle all the way around. Hope that helps.

Now on the second question. You must use a square piece. Weather it is 1" X 1" or 2" X 2" it must be square. When you make the cut the infill piece should be a smidgeon smaller than the blank. I like to keep it about 1/16" smaller. This way I do not have to trim anything off when I go to the next cut. If it is larger and stands proud of the blank when glued, you need to trim this down so it is even with the blank before you make your next cut and you do this with all 4 sides. Hope this helps.

[Richard Madison]

John.
Agree 100% with what you just wrote. And/but my previous post stands as written. The thickness of the material removed by the saw cut(s) must be equal to the thickness of the inserted material for the pattern to be aligned. Certainly the use of clamps and alignment devices (architectural aluminum angle is a good one) is essential for best result. Why not try your own test? Use a thin saw blade and an insert that is twice that thick.

[John Terefenko]

John.
Agree 100% with what you just wrote. And/but my previous post stands as written. The thickness of the material removed by the saw cut(s) must be equal to the thickness of the inserted material for the pattern to be aligned. Certainly the use of clamps and alignment devices (architectural aluminum angle is a good one) is essential for best result. Why not try your own test? Use a thin saw blade and an insert that is twice that thick.


Richard I agree with you. I have said this on other sites also that the kerf has to match the thickness of the infill piece. It does not have to match the width of the piece. I cut my pieces all the way through with a 3/32" blade and insert a 3/32" piece. I am in the process of trying this with my aluminum pens. I am waiting for the proper blade to be delivered. Will post a photo if this works.