14 or 17 inch bandsaw

[Tom Hassad]

I am starting to look seriously at getting a new bandsaw. I have a piece of junk 14 inch HF bandsaw. Besides length of table surface, how do you differentiate the 14 inch vs. 17 inch saws when certain models have the same HP as the bigger 17 inch models.

I want enough power and clearance to resaw up to 12 inches. I have read enough reviews to see some claim they get by with the 14 inch models. If you took money out of the equation but wanted performance to justify going with 17 inch over 14 inch in terms of extra costs - should I go with a 14 inch or 17 inch. Most of the uses will be to resaw but I would like to use thin blades to do nice curve work too. I will need to re-wire my garage for 220 volts but I don't want that to stop me from looking at all options. My experience with the HF bandsaw convinced me that I need power and accuracy. I put good blades in the HF and still had bad resaw results.

I don't want to have to buy a saw and then put on a riser block to get the necessary resaw height but I know some bandsaws, even at 14 inch, provide enough height. I just don't know how to differentiate them from the 17 inch models or what I get with the larger models when they have the same HP (besides the larger size between frame and saw blade).
Thanks, Tom.

[Mike Lipke]

It depends what you use it for.
I just sold my 14" 1hp BS with a riser block for a bigger model.

Why?
It worked well on smaller, even medium work, but I use it for making blanks, and running a 12" log thru the thing, even with the biggest blade, 3tpi, going soooo slow, it would bog down and generally make me know that I was pushing it's limits to the max.

Sorta like towing a houseboat with an Escort. It will do it, but boy do you know its back there. Just doesn't feel right.

So, bought a saw I should have bought the first time. 5hp, with a 16" vertical capacity. Do I need 5 hp? Prolly not. 3hp would be ok, but this saw comes with 5hp, and boy does it cut.

What size paint brush should I buy? Depends if I am painting a house or a rocking chair. What do you cut mostly (or even sometimes)?

[Guy Belleman]

and never look back.

Check out all of the other many bandsaw threads.

[Leigh Betsch]

I don't know where you are located but if you are close to PA check out the for sale forum for the :Centauro 24" bandsaw SE PA. That is one heck of a saw for cheap. My MiniMax 20 is made by Centauro.

[Grant Vanbokklen]

Band Saws take up a very small foot print really. Keep your eye out for something good. There is an AGAZANNI 18" BANDSAW for sale on CL in Berkley California, asking $1500

[Loren Hedahl]

Since you indicate resawing would be your major use, I would think you would want to make your decision based on optimizing that operation. A 17 inch saw would be a significant step up in performance over a 14 inch, in my mind, and a 20 inch would carry that even further.

On the other hand, changing blade sizes for scrolling, which includes resetting guides or sometimes changing guide styles can be tedious. The advantage of a large saw for resawing doesn't carry over to scrolling work except for the increased throat depth that would permit working with larger pieces.

In my case I had an old aluminum frame 12 inch Craftsman that I replaced with a Delta 14. A rainy day a year or so later I felt pity on the Craftsman and spent a day going through a complete alignment, correcting all the little deficiencies with everything set up for narrow blade cutting. It has turned out to be a dandy little saw and now I wish I had gone with a larger saw than the Delta 14.

That's just my experience that you may be able to benefit from.

[Tom Hassad]

To answer Mike's question - I don't really use a bandsaw and never have resawed after getting miserable results with my HF bandsaw. I did cut arcs in pieces or tried to cut tapers then cleaned it up on the jointer. I anticipate if I bought a bandsaw I would try resawing. I just don't understand how a 17 inch is better than a 14 inch when they have the same HP - should I be looking at bigger horsepower for a bandsaw to go with a size higher than 14 inch?

[Mike Lipke]

You will find a BS with a 17" wheel is much more rigid in the frame than a 14" with a riser block. That affects blade tension and alignment.
More HP is necessary for taller resaw.

[Cary Falk]

You can tension a wider blade sufficiently. There is more weight so there is less vibration. My 14" Delta had a vibration problem. A 17" is in a different class of tool than a 14" Cast iron C frame band saw. It isn't just about 4". I also have the G0513x2 and love it. It is like going from a contractor saw to a cabinet saw.

[Curt Harms]

If you're buying primarily for resawing, I'd go with a 17"+. I have a Rikon 10-325 14" with 13" resaw and it works but if you have the room and ability to move the saw to its home, bigger is most likely better. If you have the room (again) keep your existing saw for curved cuts and to abuse with nonferrous metal etc. It can get tiresome changing blades.

[glenn bradley]

To answer Mike's question - I don't really use a bandsaw and never have resawed after getting miserable results with my HF bandsaw. I did cut arcs in pieces or tried to cut tapers then cleaned it up on the jointer. I anticipate if I bought a bandsaw I would try resawing. I just don't understand how a 17 inch is better than a 14 inch when they have the same HP - should I be looking at bigger horsepower for a bandsaw to go with a size higher than 14 inch?

With the price so close between a 14" that has a 12" height (Rikon 10-325 at about $900) and a 17" (Grizzly G0513 at about $770 or the X2 at about $1000), I guess I would second Guy's remark "Get the 17" Grizzly 0513x2and never look back."

All our needs and methods of work differ so there is rarely a "best" answer. If you do go with a 17" the G0513's, like the G0490 and the 1023 is one of Grizzly's tools that gets consistently good reviews from owners. I have the G0513X which is no longer made but, becomes a G0513X2 if I swap a couple parts . . . it was a "tweener" model.

Just to add to the confusion, many fine pieces have been posted here by folks who have older cast iron 14" models that they have put riser blocks on. I love my 17" and keep a smaller saw for curvy stuff so I like both. I'm sure you'll get some ore definite responses and hopefully they will help.

[John Thompson]

Any BS will cut curves but.. when you get to very large BS's the large bearings make it a bit more task for scrolling. A 14" with riser will re-saw but.. not as well as a larger BS that is heavier to reduce vibration... has larger springs to handle bi-metal and carbide blades and a back-frame that is more ridgid to compliment the springs.

I have a 14" that I leave a 1/4" 6 tpi blade on for curves. I have a Steel City 18" I leave a 3/4" Lennox bi-metal on.. therefore I don't have to change blades and both are more suited for the blades on board. If I could have only one BS.. I want one that will not only cut curves efficiently but re-saw just as efficiently.

I would chose one in the 17"-20" range with the 17" and 18" standing out as about all you really need to do both very well.

Good luck...

Sarge..

[Frederick Wilt]

I decided to upgrade from a 14" to a 17". Very glad I did. Totally different animal. I went with the G0636X. No regrets.

[David Keller NC]

"I just don't understand how a 17 inch is better than a 14 inch when they have the same HP - should I be looking at bigger horsepower for a bandsaw to go with a size higher than 14 inch?"

There are some subtle differences between a 17" and a 14" saw with the same HP motor - as others have mentioned, the bigger saw is likely to have better guides/bearings, will accomodate wider blades (usually, a 14" saw will not take a 1" wide blade), and the castings tend to be heavier, which makes them more rigid.

But you have not answered a question posed to you earlier on the thread - what do you want to resaw? If you're a box-builder (like jewelry boxes, humidors, etc...) and need to slice relatively short pieces of nice wood that are usually less than 8" in height, then a 14" or 17" (low-end) bandsaw will be just dandy. If you're going to be re-sawing 12" wide maple 12/4 boards 6 feet long or more, then even a 17" 3 HP bandsaw is not enough. You'd be much better off getting a bandsaw that's intended primarily for re-saw and has the horsepower, guides, and rgidity to do it.

Just about every manufacturer makes a model designed to do this - including (famously) Laguna, Rikon, Delta, Powermatic, Jet, and Grizzly. And honestly, unless you buy a high-end brand like Laguna or you have low expectations, you're likely to have to do a bit of tweaking to the saw to get the best performance out of it anyway, so it probably doesn't matter a whole lot what brand you buy.

This is why it's important to ignore the "buy brand X, I have it and love it!!!" type of posts. These are generally useless to you, because every poster has a value system that's propbably different than yours. There are lots and lots of posters to this site and others that are simply cheap, and will never spend the money to buy anything but the lowest end of tool in particular class, regardless of performance/quality tradeoffs. There are also those (but fewer in number on internet forums) that will not tolerate even the slightest defect in performance out of a tool, and will complain loudly about whatever that defect is, even though a lot of us would just shrug our shoulders and keep cutting.

What's considerably more important is matching the size/class of the tool to your needs, and not to try to make any one tool do everything. Bandsaws, in particular, suffer from this syndrome. Generally speaking, it's better to have a narrow-throat, large vertical capacity resaw and a second bandsaw that's low horsepower and light duty for cutting curves than it is to have a single, large saw with a large throat capacity and a lot of vertical cutting height, because such a saw will be much heavier, much more costly, and have a very long band (which are more expensive to replace).

[William Falberg]

Tom: The only difference between a 14" and a 17" is 1.5" of wheel radius.

Mike: What you have is a vertical saw mill with limited cut depth and without the log feeder.

Guy: Let's really confuse Tom.

Loren: What you're saying is that set-up is critical to performance and the easier the set-up, the better the saw.

Tom: A 14" cast iron wheel requires more HP than a 17" aluminum wheel. It's not the size but the weight.

Mike: Wheel diameter has nothing to do with frame rigidity, riser or not. Neither factor affects blade tension (that's a function of the spring) or alignment (a design factor). More HP is required for wider blades and heavier wheels and has nothing to do with cut depth.

Cary: IF you can properly tension a wider blade depends on springs and frame. Weight has nothing to do with vibration. Balance does; it also helps if the wheels and tires are round.

Curt: If you want to specialize in re-sawing - get the deepest cut depth you can find with enough frame to super-tension a 1" blade and enough HP to force-feed a 16" oak log. If you want versatility look for a BS with easy and multiple conversion options relative to blade guides and tension mechanisms.

From 8" "toy" bandsaws to 25HP mills the individual components of a band saw cutting solution should be "proportional" to the job at hand. Most band saws out there have frames that could be converted into rock-crushers but the disparities in component "proportion" are huge. It's a marketing thing but watch out for the "wow" factor. Like "wow!, it has 5 HP" ; it means nothing if you can't cut more than 12" anyway.

[Mike Lipke]

The spring on my new 17" BS is literally 10 times as big and thick as the one on my Jet 14".
Putting a riser kit on it did not change the spring, which was designed for for the 14" saw with a 6" height.

[James Carmichael]

It's a marketing thing but watch out for the "wow" factor. Like "wow!, it has 5 HP" ; it means nothing if you can't cut more than 12" anyway.

So, William, if you've got a 5hp bandsaw with a 12" depth of cut, you would be willing to trade for my 1hp, which also cuts 12" stock, right? After all, that extra 4HP doing you no good.

[Mike Lipke]

My 17", 5hp has a maximum cut of 16". I have cut 14" with it, so it is not just the Wow factor.

1hp will cut something 12" thick, and I have done it. But is takes longer.
A lot longer.

[Mike Lipke]

1 hp cutting 12" works, but a lot slower.

More than Wow factor if you are cutting thick stuff.

Is 5 hp necessary?
No, but 3 is prolly minimum for very often use at that thickness.

[Andrew Joiner]

Tom: The only difference between a 14" and a 17" is 1.5" of wheel radius.

Mike: What you have is a vertical saw mill with limited cut depth and without the log feeder.

Guy: Let's really confuse Tom.

Loren: What you're saying is that set-up is critical to performance and the easier the set-up, the better the saw.

Tom: A 14" cast iron wheel requires more HP than a 17" aluminum wheel. It's not the size but the weight.

Mike: Wheel diameter has nothing to do with frame rigidity, riser or not. Neither factor affects blade tension (that's a function of the spring) or alignment (a design factor). More HP is required for wider blades and heavier wheels and has nothing to do with cut depth.

Cary: IF you can properly tension a wider blade depends on springs and frame. Weight has nothing to do with vibration. Balance does; it also helps if the wheels and tires are round.

Curt: If you want to specialize in re-sawing - get the deepest cut depth you can find with enough frame to super-tension a 1" blade and enough HP to force-feed a 16" oak log. If you want versatility look for a BS with easy and multiple conversion options relative to blade guides and tension mechanisms.

From 8" "toy" bandsaws to 25HP mills the individual components of a band saw cutting solution should be "proportional" to the job at hand. Most band saws out there have frames that could be converted into rock-crushers but the disparities in component "proportion" are huge. It's a marketing thing but watch out for the "wow" factor. Like "wow!, it has 5 HP" ; it means nothing if you can't cut more than 12" anyway.


If you study William Falberg's website http://www.falbergsawz.com/
you can see he's done a lot of experimenting with bandsaws. I'd say he pushes the limits in many ways. It is cool to see a guy do so many unique things with a bandsaw. Having studied William's saws I can kinda see where he's coming from with his comments. Yes , his comments seem a bit unconventional, but he has designed and built bandsaws.

Me I'm just a user of bandsaws.

Tom, if you want a new saw I'd say get a 17". I'm a big fan of a 2 saw shop because I hate changing blades. Some people " soup up" 14" bandsaws and get good resawing out of them. Heck, maybe that's how William got started!

To keep it simple, you should be able to resaw OK with your current saw if you get the right blade and set it up right.

[Tom Hassad]

Thanks all for your comments - the truth is I am not sure what I will end up resawing - I know it will be for boxes then I want to graduate to making veneers, etc. I still want to do curve work and I am not happy with my current saw to even do that. I do want a saw to do both so it looks like I will go with a 17 inch model. I just want the capacity but I do not see myself resawing really long boards - I may need up to 12" capacity but maybe not right now. I cannot afford to have two machines, I do not have enough space in my garage and I really want to get rid of my current saw - I do not even want to think of spending more money on it to turn it into a curve cutter. I am looking at the Grizzly models - I am going to make a decision this fall - thanks again for your comments.

[Jim Kountz]

and never look back.

Check out all of the other many bandsaw threads.

Yes yes yes, cant go wrong. No need to spend anymore money either. Great saw and great customer service.

[Pete Bradley]

So, William, if you've got a 5hp bandsaw with a 12" depth of cut, you would be willing to trade for my 1hp, which also cuts 12" stock, right? After all, that extra 4HP doing you no good.
Power is greatly overrated in band saws. If my 5 HP bandsaw was a Harbor Freight with a riser and yours was a 20" Delta with a 1HP, I'd trade any day of the week.

Pete

[Pat Germain]

Here's another recommendation for the Grizzly G0513X2. I have that saw and I'm just tickled silly with it. It's an absolute joy to use. And, for a new band saw, I don't think there's a better value out there.

This saw comes wired for 220V. I recommend keeping it that way. The cord that comes with the saw is very short. Buy a heavy duty extension cord and the plug of your choice at your local hardware store. Cut the ends off the extension cord and wire it up. (This is much less expensive than buying wire by the foot.)

[jerry nazard]

Yet another vote for Grizzly G0513x2. It's a nice saw!

[Erik Christensen]

Keep in mind that another benefit of the larger wheels on the 17" saw is that the blade life is much greater.

The smaller radius of the 14" wheel causes greater blade flex and thus fatigue which can cause premature failure of the blade. Also the larger saw usually has a much longer blade so it has more time to cool before traveling back into the cut - heat being another wear factor on blade life.

[William Falberg]

The hype behind claims of excessive weld fatigue in wheels of lesser diameter is just that - hype. Manufacturers of band saws with larger wheels cite that in their bullet points to boost sales of what are currently the worst band saw designs in existence. Under controlled testing here we couldn't find any difference in blade fatigue while the saw was run without a load. The arc section of a 20" wheel barely diverges from its 14" cousin and even the theoretical difference between them is marginal at most. We've run our 10" wheels for days with the same blade. In on-the-job operation, the blade gets dulled long before the weld gives out. Where you see the most devastating weld fatigue is in the blade's cut path. We discovered there's a direct relationship between wheel alignment and weld fatigue however, but the most likely cause of premature breakage is deflection (around blade guides, drift correction, and free-hand operational errors) through the cut path. No blade will last long under conditions of improper alignment or operation. You can't take manufacturers claims as fact. They're usually self-serving and often incorrect. I'm no exception. But I try. So you can believe me; because I never lie, and I'm always right:-)............

[Rick Fisher]

I am a big fan of a powerful bandsaw. I upgraded to a bigger saw, and now rip all hardwood on the bandsaw. Its safer, faster and takes less kerf..

I just today got my first 1" 3tpi Lennox Tri-Master blade, am about to do the "throw it on the lawn and run" routine and install it. :D

If I survive the un-coiling .. I will post an opinion on it.

[Dave Lehnert]

OK!

I am confused. If I buy a 17" saw I will not want to use it for curves????
Why would it not do curves like a 14" saw would?

[Rick Fisher]

A 17" will cut curves just fine.. Its actually nicer because you have more room between the saw and the blade.

[David Keller NC]

"OK!

I am confused. If I buy a 17" saw I will not want to use it for curves????
Why would it not do curves like a 14" saw would?"

The reason you'd like to have 2 saws (a smaller 14" and a larger one for re-sawing) has to do with set-up and use. One typically uses a dedicated blade with a thin kerf and coarse teeth for re-sawing, and the wider the better. For curves, one usually wants a blade with finer teeth (so there's less planing or sanding afterwards), and you have to have a narrower blade to get around the curve without pinching.

You can get around this by re-sawing with a narrow blade and a "point fence", but you must carefully steer the board with this sort of set-up. It works great for short pieces of stock, but gets troublesome when you need to re-saw a 6 footer.

This may not be a factor for you if you're a hobbyist where production speed doesn't matter, but having to change out the blade, re-align it and re-tension it several times a day is a real pain.

[John Thompson]

Dave L.... to add to what Rick and David K. said.. I will repeat my opening line in the only post I made here. Any BS can cut curves. I mentioned I have a 14" set up with 1/4" 6 tpi for curves and a 18" set up with 3/4" bi-metal for re-saw as I do both almost daily. I am not a production shop but I do spend 4-8 hours a day in my shop 6 days a week.

So.. most of us amateurs that have a small and a larger BS ended up with them because we had the smaller first. When upgrading.. in lieu of selling one at half what we paid we had the space and recognized the advantage of having two. And we had the space which is another consideration.

Changing blades is not that difficult but it does take time. I change TS blades from rip to cross-cut about 3-4 times a day (sometimes more) and I had rather make 10 blade changes on a TS in lieu of one on a BS even though it doesn't take that long. But.. when you change a blade you have to also re-set proper tension. You also have to adjust the bearing settings in most cases. If you had a wide blade on the saw for re-saw and put say a 1/4" on.. the 1/4" would be completely enclosed by the bearings on a larger saw.

Teeth grinding on bearing don't mix well so you have to slide the bearing back behind the gullet on a blade so the front of the bearing is just behind the gullet depth giving the teeth clearance to avoid touching the bearing and grinding down the teeth and bearings.

So... having two is simply a convenience but by no means a necessity. Simply put.. if I had not purchased the 14" first and had purchased the 18", there would have been no real need to up-grade in my case as the 18" is the better choice IMO to fill both curve and re-saw needs. With that said I re-sawed on a 14" for years and could still be doing it today. It is just slower and requires more acute tuning IMO to do so using a smaller width blade.

Sarge..

[Dave Lehnert]

Dave L.... to add to what Rick and David K. said.. I will repeat my opening line in the only post I made here. Any BS can cut curves. I mentioned I have a 14" set up with 1/4" 6 tpi for curves and a 18" set up with 3/4" bi-metal for re-saw as I do both almost daily. I am not a production shop but I do spend 4-8 hours a day in my shop 6 days a week.

So.. most of us amateurs that have a small and a larger BS ended up with them because we had the smaller first. When upgrading.. in lieu of selling one at half what we paid we had the space and recognized the advantage of having two. And we had the space which is another consideration.

Changing blades is not that difficult but it does take time. I change TS blades from rip to cross-cut about 3-4 times a day (sometimes more) and I had rather make 10 blade changes on a TS in lieu of one on a BS even though it doesn't take that long. But.. when you change a blade you have to also re-set proper tension. You also have to adjust the bearing settings in most cases. If you had a wide blade on the saw for re-saw and put say a 1/4" on.. the 1/4" would be completely enclosed by the bearings on a larger saw.

Teeth grinding on bearing don't mix well so you have to slide the bearing back behind the gullet on a blade so the front of the bearing is just behind the gullet depth giving the teeth clearance to avoid touching the bearing and grinding down the teeth and bearings.

So... having two is simply a convenience but by no means a necessity. Simply put.. if I had not purchased the 14" first and had purchased the 18", there would have been no real need to up-grade in my case as the 18" is the better choice IMO to fill both curve and re-saw needs. With that said I re-sawed on a 14" for years and could still be doing it today. It is just slower and requires more acute tuning IMO to do so using a smaller width blade.

Sarge..

Thanks! That clears things up for me. I can do all with the 17" just beware of the extra time changing blades.
Guess its kinda like Norm with a router for each bit.

[John Thompson]

Thanks! That clears things up for me. I can do all with the 17" just beware of the extra time changing blades.
Guess its kinda like Norm with a router for each bit.

Yeah.. or that Sarge fella with his 4 ROS's which have different grits on each one so a quick switch of the vac hose is the only slow-down. :)

BTW... if you upgrade always to be sure to check to make sure the bearings are just behind the gullet (any BS for that matter) .. if you get a quick release tensioner always be sure you apply tension and turn the wheels by hand to set up tracking before starting the saw. Those are very importanat and you probably already know that but.. doesn't hurt to repeat and emphasize them for any that might not.

Good luck....

That Sarge fella...

[William Falberg]

James C: Everything else being equal, I would trade; the 1HP uses less electricity. But everything else is seldom equal and if both saws will TENSION a 1" blade I'd keep the 5HP because it would be faster. On the other hand, 1HP would be incapable of benefitting from the beam strength of a 1" blade. Band saws comprise a mechanical chain that's only as strong as its weakest link.

Mike L: I've cut 18" D with an old 1/2HP portable but it was very, very slow. You increase rip speed by PROPORTIONALLY increasing blade width and motor HP. "Proportionally" implies the wheels, guides and frame can handle the incresed load also. You'll only cut as fast as your weakest link will allow. It's like hot-rodding a car: change the carburator and you end up jacking up the radiator cap and sliding a whole new car under it. There's no end.

[Carlos Alden]

My experience with the HF bandsaw convinced me that I need power and accuracy.

So true. How many times do we buy on the cheap only to realize that there is a reason it's cheap.

Last December I bought a Jet 14" bandsaw (DX model, 1.25 HP) and put on a riser block. It's fine for resawing 12", no problem. But I can feel the table size and saw size limit, and if I were doing any more resawing than I am I would get a larger saw.

I think that bigger and heavier and sturdier is almost always an important factor in woodworking. Generally speaking it gives one more accuracy and control, is safer, and yields better results.

I sold my old Delta 12" bandsaw to get the Jet, and I'm sure you could pick up something like that for $100-$200 and keep a 1/8" blade on it for curve sawing.

I advocate getting a 17" saw.

Carlos