Router table Vs' Shaper

[Michael Liechty]

I'm in need a of dedicated router table or shaper. After pricing a new router motor (PC7518) benchdog top and router lift. I'm at what a 2 HP shaper costs. Any reason not to go with a shaper?

ML

[Rod Sheridan]

Not as far as I'm concerned, it's what I did.

2HP is a bit small, unless of course you plan to use it with router bits only.

If you do intend to use it with shaper cutters, 3HP is probably the smallest you would want.

Regards, Rod.

[David DeCristoforo]

Michael: There have been a plethora of discussions on this subject. Search the forum and you will find days worth of reading.....

[Lee Schierer]

Typically shaper bits are more costly and have less selection. For most applications a router will do the job just as well. You can also remove the router fromteh table and use it as a conventional router. You can't do that with a shaper. A Table mounted router is going to be more versitile than a shaper in my opinion.

I have an old Homecraft Shaper and don't use it much because the cutters I have are all high speed steel and they dull relatively quickly. On the other hand, I use my and my router table all the time.

[Ray Newman]

from Pat Warner's "Router Woodwoorking" web site:

Router or Shaper --

http://www.patwarner.com/router_or_shaper.html

[Vince Shriver]

[QUOTE=Lee Schierer;1130908]Typically shaper bits are more costly and have less selection. For most applications a router will do the job just as well. You can also remove the router fromteh table and use it as a conventional router. You can't do that with a shaper. A Table mounted router is going to be more versitile than a shaper in my opinion.

The section from Pat Warner's book gives an excellent explanation of each. As an aside: 1) usually a shaper works best with a power feeder, depending on the task, and 2) shapers are capable of running router bits as well as shaper cutters.

[Jeff Duncan]

What David said:D

In addition....assuming you don't have a lot of experience, (as you don't already have a router table), what makes you think you need either of the two options you listed? I use a PC 690 router in a shop built table that cost nothing but scrap to build (already had several routers). It's been an invaluable tool for many years in my shop even with 2 shapers, and I personally can't justify the expense of those fancy aftermarket gadgets. For less than $200 you can buy a router and assemble a basic router table, use it for a while and see if you even need anything more than that before spending a bunch of money.
good luck,
JeffD

[Richard Dooling]

Do youself a big favor and look at Bill Hylton's "Woodworking With the Router." He has several great plans for router tables and fences. From simple to complex.

I think this book will serve you better at this point than his other big seller, "Router Magic."

[Michael Liechty]

What David said:D

In addition....assuming you don't have a lot of experience, (as you don't already have a router table), what makes you think you need either of the two options you listed?
JeffD

Not to be teh new guy smart @$$ but am currently running a PC 690 on one side of my table saw. Just sold a PC 3.5 HP plunge boat anchor. Already have more routers than I know what to do with and most of them get used for fluting columns adn or millwork.
FWIW: I'm not the homeowner type but spend my days building custom cabinets and doing millwork in high end homes. As for expernece, I've been making a lliving as a carpenter for 22 years. I came here to gain some insight from others. A shaper would predomidantly be used for making iterior doors.

ML

[John P Clark]

I would recommend the shaper if you had a good shop to set it up in and leave it. I have done the same work on custom houses and nothing beats a shaper for interior and cabinet doors. Not very portable however

[Peter Quinn]

I can't resist a "Shaper vrs router post. I should, but I can't.

If you are doing this for a living you will not regret a shaper, period. I would probably go bigger than 2HP models. I work in a cabinet and mill work shop, mostly making passage doors and exterior units these days. I guess you know how versatile routers are already. I'm here to say shapers are equally versatile in different ways but FAR MORE POWERFUL. The suggestion that routers offer more cutter options is pure unfounded HOGWASH. In fact with a handful of shaper cutters you can make an amazing variety of profiles, and HSS has considerable longevity in most hardwoods. Router bits are often cheaper initially but many cost more than insert knives, and some of those "Molding" bit for routers strike me as just plain stupid unless you have no other option.

Say you are moving some rocks, say 20 tons of crushed stone. Sure, you can move it in a pick up truck, and in the end it will get moved. But I would rather use a dump truck for that job. Same is true of most things I do with the shaper. I have made moldings on a router table, still do now and then, but the speed and quality possible with a shaper are simply unmatched by a router. And if you are making custom doors without a shaper, well, good luck with that.

In short, there is no reason as a professional NOT to have a shaper, though there may be reasons not to have a 2HP shaper and some compelling reasons to go bigger.

[Jim Kountz]

Oh no, not again!! LOL

[Jeff Duncan]

Well then, if your working in high end millwork and fabricating interior doors, you should already have a shaper:D
No really, trying to fabricate more than 1 or 2 passage doors on a router table is not really the way to go. There are many reasons why, but you really should have a shaper and powerfeed if you want to produce quality work fast enough to make $$$. Actually this goes for cabinet doors also if you make your own. And if your doing any kind of solid wood paneled doors (as opposed to flat panel) then you would be better served with at least 2 shapers.
And I would still recommend having a decent router table to work with. I do custom woodworking, cabinets 1 week, interior doors another, and I use both shapers and the router table frequently. I can't imagine working without any of them. In fact if I had room for a 3rd shaper....;)
good luck,
JeffD

[Chip Lindley]

I dare say, at this point, you will find much more practical utility with a RT than with a shaper, if you have neither. Most see the need for a shaper when they discover that even a big router is insufficient to produce needed profiles.

Todays *router table crowd* at SMC would think it gastly that I've used P-C 690s and 7518s in a Ho'Made RT with NO lift for yearzzz! It works just fine!

Save some Bucks, and build your own RT, and mount the router base solidly beneath! That P-C *twist* base works amazingly well if you have an *eye* for adjustments (and an accurate rule) instead of trying to read a *dial*!

In my experience, router settings do NOT need micrometer precision in the majority of applications! If you can live without the Benchdog and Lift, you'll have several hundred $$ to spend on bits!

[Jason Hallowell]

I agree with everything Chip said. If you don't have a router table yet, make one. I made a decent router table last year for all of $50, only spent one afternoon/evening on it, and it's worked wonderfully during the construction of an entire house full of cabinets, and several pieces of furniture. See it here-http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=93220

I just got a new tablesaw, and being that I have limited space, and the extension table that came with it is a little messed up from a forklift running into it, I plan on rebuilding it with a router mount. I see no reason to buy any sort of lift, fancy fence, or any other add-ons when I do so, and the only improvement over my current RT will be a better dust collection box underneath.

I've used shapers, and think they're are great, and if I ever start making cabinets or doors full time I'll buy one.... or maybe three. For my part time woodworking though, a solid mounted router does everything I need it to.

[Chris Tsutsui]

Keep in mind that building a router table will take a long time unless you're a seasoned woodworker. (It took me over 20 hours... heh)

Here is a link to the one I made not too long ago:

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=109313&highlight=jessem

I built one because I got the lift, fence and table hardware on CL for just $100 from a guy that scraped his idea of building a table. The PC7518 was $309 shipped from toolzone inc, and I basically just had to buy a sheet of MDF and some misc. parts to build the rest of it.

If I was looking at $800 for a similar router table, I'd totally consider a shaper. Then i'd just have a small hand router and a shaper and I'd be good to go. :)

If I had a shaper I'd consider doing a lot more milling type of work. I could even get custom cutter heads for my own trim and that sort of thing. :)

[CPeter James]

Well, I have both and I have discovered some interesting things about shapers that never entered my mind. First of all the table is FLAT CAST IRON!! I mean FLAT. Second, the lift mechanism is great. Third, it has plenty of power. I have a spindle that is a collet for 1/2" router bits. They cut much better in my shaper that in my router table.

My shaper is a Rockwell/Delta from about 1956. I have about $800 tied up in at this point, a little more than I wanted, but I have done a total mechanical rebuild and it did come with several high end Freud router cutters for raised panel doors and some other things. A new Grizzly is about the same price.

My table mounted router is a Milwaukee 5625. I use the built in lift. The lift works good. The router has plenty of power to spin the biggest bits. The table is ALMOST flat. About as good as you can get one.

So on the question of shaper or router table, I would say, buy a shaper and a decent smaller hand held router like a PC690.

[Peter Quinn]

In fact if I had room for a 3rd shaper....;)
JeffD

I didn't want to go there this early in the conversation, but I'm glad you did. That is where I'm headed (as soon as I save for the third shaper and figure out how to hide it from my wife!)

At work all the shapers seem to travel in three's. One cope, one stick, one panel raiser. Oh, and there is that extra one on the side, the float, for moldings not done on the Wadkin or small custom runs.

I think what I'm really saying is you need four or five shapers, or a good Martin or SCMI with multiple spindles and digital height program just to get started. One shaper is like doing a conga line dance solo.:eek:

[Bill Hylton]

Michael—

I've got a fair bit of router table experience, and I've built some of traditional raised-panel interior doors using routers (no shaper). I've never used a shaper.

My advice is for you to build a quick-and-dirty router table and see how it works for you. Mount the router directly to a piece of 3/4" plywood or MDF and clamp it to a workbench or rest it across a pair of horses. Use a nice straight stick clamped to the tabletop as a fence. Take you a half-hour or an hour to do that. And the investment in materials is nil.

Then invest in a pair of bits for making architectural doors and use them to make a door. If you are dissatisfied, you can probably resell 'em on e-bay or craigslist and recoop some of your investment.

Then shop for a shaper and cutters.

To my mind, milling the copes and the sticking is a relatively trivial part of the door-making job. Even raising the panels—6 per door—didn't take very long on the router table.

I think I'd look at it this way: Even if the router-table approach takes twice as long as using a shaper, how much time have you really saved? How many doors do you expect to build? Working alone or as part of a team?

The biggest challenge for me in building my doors was joinery. I ended up using a homemade mortising block and a DW625 plunger and edge guide to rout mortises for loose tenons. 40 mortises per door, roughly 3/4" wide, 2 to 2 1/2" long, and all but 3" deep.

Bill