Cabinet door profile depth of cut questions

[Glen Butler]

My family is starting a cabinet company and I am about to order some custom tooling. It appears that there is no hard fast rule about how the shapers depth of cut on the cope and pattern or the raised panel but they range from about 23/64~7/16 for cope and pattern, and the raised panel can range from 1 1/4 ~ 1 1/2. Is there any sort of guideline for asthetics of the profile? Also it appears that the panel groove can range from 4-6 mm and it seems most professional cabinets shops like to save more thickness for the profile and so don't use the standard 1/4" that stock tooling leans toward. Is there any problem reducing the panel groove to 7/32"?

[frank shic]

glen, if you guys are seriously going to be running a cabinet business, i highly recommend you consider ordering your doors from a door manufacturer. if you still insist on making the doors yourself, i hope you have at least three shapers set up for each of the operations (coping, sticking, panel raising), a widebelt sander, a jointer and a planer or even better one of those industrial unique door making machines. most people are not going to care about a 1/32" difference in the panel groove. i hope you have a good business plan especially in light of the current condition of the construction industry.

[Todd Burch]

I think a wider profile on a raised panel looks better.

[Glen Butler]

I am not doing this to make run of the mill cabinets for basic kitchens. I want to make fully custom cabinetry for the high end homes that my family builds. We only do 3 homes a year, but they are immaculate with all the ammenities. In floor heat, heated garage, 3 tone paint, custom finish and molding, all brick exterior, home theater, storage under garage, basement kitchen, and the list goes on. So while I say that I am starting a cabinet business it is just another in the enterprise my family has created. So 1/32 of an inch does matter and it matters to the other high end cabinets shops in the area.

Bottom line is I am looking for someone who can grind knives for me. The profile I want for my raised panel is not available as a stock profile from Freud, Amana, Freeborn, or LRH. Because of the depth of the profile it requires that the panel groove is ~5mm or 7/32. Here is the profile.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...I am looking for someone who can grind knives for me..."

For "top quality" custom tooling:

http://www.nordicsaw.com/

Freeborn will also make custom knives.....

[Todd Burch]

If you are wanting to go all out, have a cutter designed with replaceable carbide inserts. One of the most enjoyable machines I have used in terms of ease of pushing stock through and low noise was a monster Felder shaper outfitted with a cutter that used carbide inserts.

[Jay Brewer]

Why not use 13/16" material for the doors and stick with the standard 1/4" groove? This will allow you to buy standard cope and stick cutters.

[Peter Quinn]

I am confused as to your goals. I work in a high end custom shop and get the custom thing. I don't see any problem with a 7/32" tongue on your panels. We use a set of tongue cutters ground from Freeborn that are two 1/8" cutters with the hubs ground off the meeting edges, shims allow you to spread them to hit the exact thickness of tongue required. We do this to match veneered flat panels where we don't have control over the material thickness. Say the panels are figured Sapele, and they come in .235". Then we make the grooves to match.

In your case, if you are making the doors, frames and raised panels from solid stock OR MDF for paint grade panels, you have control over every variable, and the tongue thickness is irrelevant. You can set the tongue thickness with the back cutter and shims. If you are chasing 1/32" just add this to the frame thickness, source good material that can be flattened thicker than 3/4", get hardware to match, and move on with life. I don't see anything about the drawing you included that would inspire me to source custom tooling. Looks like the emperor's new cabinets to me. You can get cutters in that basic Ogee in profile widths from 1/4"-5/8" off the shelf and panel cutters as well.

As regards profile depth of the frames and panels, as the profiles get larger, I like to see the rails and stiles get a bit wider AND the doors and frames get a bit thicker. Keep the look balanced and pushes it more towards the look of built in furniture and away from the look of low cost factory made production boxes. The doors we make are typically 1" minimum, more likely 1 1/16" or 1 1/8". All the details from the crown to the kicks are sized and elaborated to match.

Good luck in your venture.

[Peter Quinn]

It occurs to me that in your sketch the total thickness of your door is 21/32", or .6562", just north of 5/8"? Did I miss something? I think IKEA is the only company I know of locally that sends out cabinets with doors that thin.

3/32"+7/32"+3/32"+1/4"+1/8"=.78125", or 25/32" (A heavy 3/4" in the common parlance) which is a more typical standard thickness and gives you a 1/4" tongue. So is the panel profile the driving force here? I'll admit that ogee profile with the double step is going to be a custom cutter as far as I can tell. I'd draw that one up in 3-d before I ordered it. Not sure that hard vertical step with the small flat into a chamfer is going to render well. Looks like you are trying to squeeze a lot if detail into a panel under 5/8" thick.

[Frank Drew]

Glen, Not trying to change your design, but a thought: The cove detail on the bottom side of the panel is nice, but will almost never be seen. Something to think about is to use material thick enough to allow a certain amount of the panel field -- the central portion -- be proud of the top surface of the framing, maybe by an eighth or so. It's not a bad look, and gives the whole door a bit more "dimension" and visual impact.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...allow a certain amount of the panel field...be proud of the top surface of the framing...It's not a bad look..."

Some like this look but you need to remember that with the panel "proud" of the frame, sanding becomes a bit more complicated. It's easy to "kiss" the corners of the panel when sanding the frame. And if you use a wide belt or drum sander, you cannot hit the frame on the face side and the panel projection can mess with sanding the backs because the door may "rock" or not sit flat on the conveyor

[Bill Reed]

You might look at the cutters made by Garniga. They offer some standard shapes that are very similar to what you have drawn. They are sold in the US by a company called Rangate. They are Italian and of very high quality.

Bill

[jim carter]

It occurs to me that in your sketch the total thickness of your door is 21/32", or .6562", just north of 5/8"? Did I miss something? I think IKEA is the only company I know of locally that sends out cabinets with doors that thin.

3/32"+7/32"+3/32"+1/4"+1/8"=.78125", or 25/32" (A heavy 3/4" in the common parlance) which is a more typical standard thickness and gives you a 1/4" tongue. So is the panel profile the driving force here? I'll admit that ogee profile with the double step is going to be a custom cutter as far as I can tell. I'd draw that one up in 3-d before I ordered it. Not sure that hard vertical step with the small flat into a chamfer is going to render well. Looks like you are trying to squeeze a lot if detail into a panel under 5/8" thick.


it come to 3/4". 1/8" = 4/32

[Peter Quinn]

it come to 3/4". 1/8" = 4/32

Holly crap I can't add! It sure does Jim.

[J.R. Rutter]

Darn near anyone will do custom cutters for you. If I were you, I would put a slight angle on the first vertical step up from the ogee on the panel as well as the second one. I suggest getting an insert type head with your custom profile. The cut quality is better than brazed, and you may be able to get a universal type head that can run a variety of profiles.

I too would suggest going to 13/16" as a minimum door thickness, if not 7/8" if this is seriously high end. You could always do a flat back side of the panel to allow you to use up stock that has good color and grain, but is too thin to flatten and get full thickness with the back cut.