PDA

View Full Version : Dining Table Finish



Brad Wood
05-07-2009, 8:00 PM
Hey all,

I'm perplexed and what to do for a finish on a dining table I am going to get started on pretty soon.

Up to this point, all my projects have been small objects and I have used (re: experimenting) combinations of Tung oil, poly, and sprits (one, both, or all three, like I say, I've been experimenting).

I am currently working on another small project and I am trying shellac for the first time. I'm loving how quick it dries.

At this point I am sitting on the fence on whether to go with poly, shellac, or a straight varnish. I realize there are trade offs between them.
It seems like shellac is less durable but easily repaired and more easily applied... while poly is more durable but less easy to repair and be applied (long dry time, dust, etc).

For what its worth, LOML and I both prefer flatter finishes, which can be obtained on both with a final rub down with 0000 steel wool. We also prefer a less encased look (less thick) look to woodwork.

I'm just curious what you all would do as a finish for a dining table.... that would be in a more casual "country style" dining area (as opposed to formal where a french polish type finish might be more applicable).

Thanks

- Brad

Jim Becker
05-07-2009, 8:29 PM
If hand applied, my preference would be an alkyd or phenolic resin oil based varnish...no poly for me! If sprayed, a Target Coatings water borne finish, such as the Emtech 6000, their Hybrivar or their "conversion varnish" product.

Todd Burch
05-07-2009, 9:59 PM
I, like Jim, don't care so much for poly. Poly has it's place, but not at the table.

How country are you looking for? I've seen a fair number of country tables that were just wood. Now that's pretty rustic!

Pratt & Lambert #38 varnish is my favorite varnish. You can get a dull finish flavor. Three coats is still pretty thin, but has a good feel and offers decent protection.

For a country table, my take is that, yes, you want it to look good, but it's OK to be used and over time, will show wear and tear, and that's OK. I mean, a table is pretty much a utility piece, and what the hey - who cares if the milk spills or the knife is dropped on it, or Junior writes too hard when doing his homework.

Shellac is less durable than a varnish, and softer.

With either finish, you could go over it with a good wax to give it some grab to not be so slippery.

Prashun Patel
05-08-2009, 9:14 AM
What's the wood?

If hand applying, and you want an in-the-wood finish, then I'd go with a Danish Oil type finish. Expect eventual dings and scratches. IMHO, these things antique the finish which is in keeping with a country style table. A long oil varnish like this will adequately RETARD stains until you can get to em, but you gotta get to em. I like to wet sand it in with finer grits of sandpaper (north of 320grit) which really makes it satiny.

If spraying, you can consider a spray lacquer. This will offer more protection than a shellac based finish, and won't be as buildy as a pure varnish.

I'm right with you on the wonder of shellac. I like nothing better than a feel of a shellac then waxed piece. People have done shellac on tables, and in theory it is easy to repair, but it scratches super easily - and in a way that doesn't look 'antiqued' but just damaged. Yeah, it's easy to fix, but you might find yrself fixing it frequently. Besides, a waxed top coat can show water marks and can get fingerprinty. An oil finish is softer, so it doesn't scratch, but more relays the dent/ding to the wood. Personally, I LIKE that; might not be for you.

Brad Wood
05-08-2009, 11:06 AM
What's the wood

I'm doing this in Alder


I've seen a fair number of country tables that were just wood.

We aren't looking for something quite that country :)

I will be hand applying. And LOML wants to get that "worn" look. It sounds like a higher oil content varnish might be the right direction for me (correct me if I'm wrong, but a higher oil content would be described as "Long"??)

Where do you guys find these different products? Pratt & Lambert, I couldn't find anything but paint on their web site.
I look at Woodcraft, Rocker, Lowes, and HD, and the selection of Varnish is very limited, and mostly poly type.
I'd prefer not to spend top dollar on this stuff, I am just a hobbyist and this is a personal project... besides, I'm not brimming over with spare cash.

I like Danish oil on some stuff, but I would like more of a film finish look that what that provides (even though I already said we dont like the thick look, I do want to see something there)

Thanks guys

Prashun Patel
05-08-2009, 11:38 AM
If you don't want to use DOil, then you'll have to make your own 'long oil finish'. However, it's not gonna look or behave that differently from DOil, so given that you seem to want a thin film finish, I humbly suggest you go with a wiping varnish.

If you live near a Lowes, or Ace, you can get Cabot's alkyd varnish; that's the economy solution. I've had good results with it. It's about the only alkyd that's closely available. They also make a Spar alkyd varnish which is a tad longer on the oil, and will dry slightly softer. It's supposed to be for outside use, but I've had fine use with it indoors, and I find it to rub out just fine too - given enough time. Both will build if you use them straight. Ace's spar varnish has a phenolic resin and also works very well.

If you thin either with 25-50% spirits (and no oil), they'll make wiping varnishes. This mix will provide more control over how thick you build. IMHO, gloss does not show up until you start to build. However, even before build coats, I've had a hard time WIPING a satin varnish without streaks. So, I'd suggest you go gloss and just don't build too much. You'll get a nice, thin, barely glossy thin film. If it's too glossy still, rub it down.

You said yr not feeling spendy, but if you WERE, I'd offer that Waterlox is also a great brushing or wiping varnish (phenolic).

Brad Wood
05-08-2009, 11:54 AM
Thanks Shawn.... I appreciate your input.

edit: OMG - I just looked up Waterlox... what the heck, do they put gold flake in there? I think I'll pick up a can of Cabot and slap it on a test piece :)

Jim Becker
05-08-2009, 4:20 PM
Brad, good finishes cost money...and there often can be a very real difference between consumer focused, mass market products and those from higher up the finishing food chain, such as Waterlox. If you can't find the Cabot, Sherwin Williams Fast Dry is ok, can be thinned for wiping and readily available in their paint stores. Do not buy more varnish than you need, however...once opened, the shelf life is very limited.

Joe Cunningham
05-08-2009, 4:36 PM
I have Cabot high gloss varnish on my desk for work--which I thinned a bit for application, and rubbed out after about 7 coats. I pound on a key board all day, sometimes eat my lunch at my desk, place plates straight from the micro, and it looks just as good today as it did a year ago.

I got it at my local Ace hardware store. Much easier to find than Pratt & Lamberts or Waterlox. Reasonable price too if I recall correctly.

Brad Wood
05-08-2009, 7:01 PM
I guess so. I guess I am just going through a little sticker shock... I am still relatively new to the hobby and finishing is one of those things I am just starting to grasp.. and accomplish with at least somewhat pleasing results.

Woodworking seems to be one of those bottomless pits of constant $$$$ sucking. (if my wife only knew exactly how much I spent she would probably crap)

Thanks for the info on Cabot. I know my local Lowes has it on the shelf.... $10 or so for a Qt.

I thought it was shellac that had the short shelf life??? I've got poly that is pretty old and still sets up OK. Is regular varnish different than poly in its shelf life?

- Brad

Prashun Patel
05-08-2009, 7:30 PM
Woodworking seems to be one of those bottomless pits of constant $$$$ sucking.

Here, here. It took me a while to get over the high price of good finishes too. But get over it you will, unfortunately. I'd love to try P&L38, and would pay good $$ at this point too, but lo, it's nowhere to be found by me...

If you think $23 for a qt of waterlox is bad, I like many others have dropped $300 on a piece of metal that lets you drill holes for dowels!!!

You gotta spend some time with econo tools and finishes to really appreciate the time and sweat savings the pricey stuff can getcha...

Todd Burch
05-08-2009, 9:02 PM
No kidding. I recently spent $600 for a 3/4 gallon of car paint. Ouch!! The woodworking stuff is CHEAP after that purchase.

John Keeton
05-08-2009, 9:32 PM
If you can't find the Cabot, Sherwin Williams Fast Dry is ok, can be thinned for wiping and readily available in their paint stores.Jim, after having fought with the SW fast dry on this last project, I couldn't recommend it. I have had a terrible time getting it to lay down. I ended up getting some Arm-R-Seal to finish off with.

My next purchase will be an Earlex!! And, after that, my next phone call will be to Jeff Jewitt!!

Jim Becker
05-09-2009, 9:19 AM
Woodworking seems to be one of those bottomless pits of constant $$$$ sucking.

Na...woodworking is nothing, compared to...equestrian sports. ;)

Seriously, quality materials can make a significant difference in the end result so choosing good lumber and using good finishing materials and techniques will increase your enjoyment of woodworking and also likely give completed projects that are very pleasing to your other half.