"proper" table saw or is a Bosch 4000 (or 4100) good enough?

[Niels J. Larsen]

I think I want a table saw.

I don't actually NEED one, but I can see that some operations that I make today with my Festool guided saw/router and/or my bandsaw, would be easier and (hopefully) more accurate and easier to repeat with a table saw.

Please keep suggestions about what I could do to make the Festool do the same as a table saw out of this thread. I've been there and done that - and I still think it's too much of a hassle for my taste. Sorry :)

I was almost going to buy an old sliding table saw locally, but it's big - especially with the slider attached - and it's lacking some safety features such as motor braking.

Since I have limited space in my shop due to all the other tools/machines I own, I've considered a portable saw.

I've read many reviews and one that seems to get top honors is the Bosch 4000 (which is the only one available here in Europe) or the 4100 (which is only available in the US).

I'd like to hear from people with actual experience with this saw - or this type of saws - and I have a number of questions:

- Is this saw precise enough to be used in building furniture?
- Is it sturdy enough?
- Will I need to build tables surrounding the saw or is the built-in table sturdy and big enough?
- Is the fence precise enough?
- Is the miter guides/fence precise enough?

Thanks!

[glenn bradley]

My brother owns this saw so my experience is my own limited personal use of it and his second hand thoughts. It is a really nice jobsite saw. That being said:
- Is this saw precise enough to be used in building furniture?
Many folks have done wonderful work with less.
- Is it sturdy enough?
It is a jobsite saw and portability is the focus, not mass.
- Will I need to build tables surrounding the saw or is the built-in table sturdy and big enough?
That will depend on how large the pieces are that you are working on are. I don't say that to be a smarty-pants; if an end table will be a large piece for you then the exiting table with a possible roller stand will probably be fine. If you want to do an entertainment center . . . not so much.
- Is the fence precise enough?
This is my main area of concern. It is a nice 'jobsite saw' fence but is made for smaller work. Again, jewelry boxes, medicine chests, small table and cabinets but I wouldn't want to do a kitchen with one.
- Is the miter guides/fence precise enough?
I double checked every time I moved them. I just didn't feel confident with them. I did not set the saw up and hope someone who owns one and has done more on it will chime in as my opinion is sounding a little negative. For not much more, you could go this way (http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=842711&FamilyID=21201). I believe this saw is being discussed elsewhere on SMC.

[Peter Scoma]

I use a 4100 as my only TS but my shop is 90 sq ft so I dont have many other options. I think it is a very precise saw and i've had no problems with the fence or miter gauge doing very precise work. You will need extension tables to go with it.

That being said. If you can swing room for a stationary unit, do it. You wont be disappointed.

PS

[John Callahan]

My comments are based on having spent considerable time using my employer's and coworker's Bosch 4000's; I own a competing model, the Porter Cable 3812.

- Is this saw precise enough to be used in building furniture? Yes, imho it is no less accurate than any cabinet or contractor style saw I've used with one exception, that being the miter gauge.

- Is it sturdy enough? Yes, they've held up well despite being moved jobsite to jobsite. The GravityRise stand is great and makes moving it easy.

- Will I need to build tables surrounding the saw or is the built-in table sturdy and big enough? You'll definitely need some form of extra support if you plan on cutting sheet goods or longer lengths of wood.

- Is the fence precise enough? Yes The saw has a number of of adjustments that can be made; blade parallel to the miter slot, fence to blade, pointers etc so it can be dialed in accurately.

- Is the miter guides/fence precise enough? imho the biggest weakness of the Bosch 4000 is the miter gauge. There's no t-slot (the newer 4100 does have a t-slot) so the miter gauge wants to fall of when you pull it back past the table and the miter gauges I've seen had sloppy fit. Replacing the stock gauge with one such as the Incra V27 will do wonders.

[glenn bradley]

Niels, please, please listen to John and Peter over my limited exposure. They have got some real hands on experience ;-)

[Loren Hedahl]

Of the bench top saws the Bosch saws are in the most expensive group. I have a DeWalt 745 which is a competing saw at a lower price. I also have a Festool TS55, guides and vacuum; and like you, decided that for some cuts that I make quite often, a table saw is much more capable than the Festool, specifically ripping hardwoods and cutting small pieces.

I chose the DeWalt because of its price, its accurate fence, its size and weight, its dust control port and its pipe frame. If the Bosch had a DeWalt style fence, I might have been happy to pay the higher price.

From my experience, I would say that with a good quality sharp blade of the correct type, there would be no noticeable difference in cut quality between the bench top saw and a contractor style saw that I previously had. The advantage of the contractor saw is its cast iron top allows the convenience of magnetic type feather boards and the distance from the front of the top to the blade is greater which can make precise cuts easier. The bench top saw makes quite a lot more noise. But for a woodworker who understands the capability of the saw, very precise work can be performed.

I believe having a Festool circular saw and a small tablesaw available is the best combination. My neighbor has a beautiful setup, a Powermatic cabinet saw surrounded by large in-feed, out-feed and side tables. His dollar outlay is higher, but I believe my setup is at least as functional as his.

[Alfred Hoffmann]

I bought this TS several years ago and I am overall satisfied with it. There are several short comings which the 4100 may have overcome but I don't know since I haven't checked it out.
The short comings are:
1. No T-slot for the runners; slots vary in width over the total length.
2. No separate splitter once the safe guard has been removed. I had to make my own;
3. No zero clearance inserts available except the plastic one from Bosch (Amazon). The dado insert is metal. The insert thickness is not standard thickness and needs a clearance on the left side to properly fit. I make
my own using 1/2" thick oak board and planing it down to the proper thickness.

[Drew Eckhardt]

I think I want a table saw.
I've read many reviews and one that seems to get top honors is the Bosch 4000 (which is the only one available here in Europe) or the 4100 (which is only available in the US).


I bought a Bosch 4000 so I could cut MDF outside and things with more wood + less glue inside.



- Is this saw precise enough to be used in building furniture?
- Is it sturdy enough?
Yes.



- Will I need to build tables surrounding the saw or is the built-in table sturdy and big enough?
For long or wide pieces.



- Is the fence precise enough?
Yes.



- Is the miter guides/fence precise enough?
No.

The big problem is that there isn't much space in front of the blade. For reasonable cross-cut widths especially at miter angles you want to use a sled. The miter slots are sloppy and expandable runners help although the widths aren't uniform.

The 25" limit on ripping capacity may be an issue.

A full size saw may not cost much more or take up appreciably more floor space if it has a mobile base and you're not using the Bosch cart. It'll give you more options and make less noise.

[Augusto Orosco]

Mostly what everybody said. It's a nice saw, the fence can be adjusted pretty accurately and with a good blade, you can make nice cuts.

My biggests beef with the saw, as others have mentioned, is the short distance between the front of the table and the blade and the sloppy miter slots (I have the model without T-Slots). In my opinion, a cross cut sled should be one of your first shop made jigs if you go get the saw.