Epoxy vs Silver Solder

[Burt Alcantara]

I'm making tool handles and would like to know which would be stronger if I attach a nut to a pipe - epoxy or silver solder or are both equally strong?

Thanks,
Burt

[Richard Madison]

Silver solder.

[Paul Atkins]

Silver solder before drilling pipe. Drill through nut and tap hole in pipe too.

[Dale Miner]

A few questions;

What does the joint detail look like?

What temp silver solder are you referring to?

What type material is the nut (and pipe) made from?

Later,
Dale M

[Burt Alcantara]

Dale,
Don't know any of the above. I'm making a number of tool handles. So far, I've used black pipe from Lowes but there is a metal store near by where I can buy flat or round stock of almost any type.

If you have any recommendations for any of the components I'm all ears/eyes.

Burt

[David Drickhamer]

Silver solder, no doubt about it. Something else you could try, better than epoxy but not as good as solder is JB Weld. You can even drill and tap the stuff if you want.

[Burt Alcantara]

I thought JB Weld was just epoxy. No?

[Burt Alcantara]

Are there any particular procedures to follow for using silver solder? Flux, solder, cleaning areas? Where do I get this stuff anyway? Should I use MAPP?

Thanks,
Burt

[Eric DeSilva]

Speaking as someone who has had a new Millermatic 211 in his garage for the last week, the answer is clearly "a MIG weld." :)

As long as the nut isn't zinc coated, that is.

Actually, having said that, you may want to look into whether there is any toxicity issue with heating the kind of nut you are using. Zinc/galvanized give off very, very bad fumes when welded, and I'm not sure MAPP or silver solder temps will do the same thing.

[george wilson]

Silver solder is best. You can remove zinc plating with a cup with some muriatic acid in it.Heat the nut up to drive off remaining HCL. that acid is HARD to kill. Soaking in baking sods and water doesn't really keep it from rusting later.

Be real sure to remove cadmium from nuts,or anything you are getting red hot. It is very harmful,but acid takes it right off. Some suggest vinegar,or lemon juice. Muriatic is fast,and thorough. Keep muriatic acid containers,even sealed tightly OUT OF THE SHOP. I guarantee you,the acid frequently slowly gets through the plastic,and you will begin to find rust on your tools. I found this out back in the 50's from having a never opened plastic cube of it,which had to be snipped open. It was never snipped.

[Jim Underwood]

Burt,
When you silver solder, you must get the surfaces to be bonded pretty flat and shiny smooth. I used a grinder. You must clean chemically or/and mechanically. Yes you must use flux with your silver solder.

You can find the materials to do all this at your local welding supply house. I bought my solder and flux at the welding store as a package, but you'll need to know what percentage of silver you want. They also don't call it "silver solder". They call it brazing solder or somesuch, but it has silver content, and I think the higher the content the stronger it is. http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/popular-mechanics/Amateur-Work-6/Silver-Solder.html

You'll also need a Mapp gas torch because Propane simply does't get hot enough. I bought the Mapp gas torch at one of the big box stores.

[Jeff Nicol]

Speaking as someone who has had a new Millermatic 211 in his garage for the last week, the answer is clearly "a MIG weld." :)

As long as the nut isn't zinc coated, that is.

Actually, having said that, you may want to look into whether there is any toxicity issue with heating the kind of nut you are using. Zinc/galvanized give off very, very bad fumes when welded, and I'm not sure MAPP or silver solder temps will do the same thing.
Eric, I welded galvanized for 25 years and we were always told tha fumes were bad, but it turns out the older you get the more zinc we need in our systems and it won't hurt you any worse than the nasty stuff off any welding. But next week that could change too, so live each day like it is your last and die happy! No matter what an exhaust hood or fan should be used to get rid of any welding fumes, just because they stink and plug up the old snoz!

Jeff

[Dale Miner]

Dale,
Don't know any of the above. I'm making a number of tool handles. So far, I've used black pipe from Lowes but there is a metal store near by where I can buy flat or round stock of almost any type.

If you have any recommendations for any of the components I'm all ears/eyes.

Burt

Hi Burt,

I'm not clear on how the nut will be used in the making of a handle.

If you are joining a steel pipe to a steel nut, then the strongest and probabaly the most cost effective is welding. If the metals are dissimilar, say, steel to brass, then silver solder is a good choice, if the joint is prepared for a solder type connection. Solder requires surface area in a shear mode to gain strength. Most silver solders require a close fitting joint with a few thousandths of an inch clearance for the solder to wick into (capillary flow) for maximum strength.

If you are trying to mount a threaded brass pipe fitting into the inside of a piece of steel pipe, the contact area between the top of the threads and the pipe is minimal, and silver solder may not be as strong as some the better epoxies. If epoxy is used in this type connection, surface area is your friend, and the deeper the fitting enters the pipe the better. Tapping the inside of the pipe and screwing the fitting in would be my choice in this situation. Another method in this situation would be to clean the inside of the pipe to a surface free of all scale, and turn or file the brass fitting to closely fit into the cleaned pipe. This would remove the tops of the threads, increasing the contact area, making for a stronger silver solder joint.

If you are trying to butt the nut up against the end of the pipe, using only the wall thickness of the pipe as the contact area, neither epoxy or silver solder will yield a reliable connection, although the silver solder will be stronger than the epoxy.


The 'low temp' silver solders that are white metal in appearance have low strength compared to the higher temperature 'silver brazing' alloys that have a more coppery appearance. I think that the 45% silver alloy that I use needs about 1300 F to melt and flow properly. A special silver solder paste flux is needed with the higher temp solders. I've no experience with Mapp gas, but do know that propane will not do a proper job of silver soldering.


In the handles that you have previously made with black pipe, how did you secure the tool in the pipe?

Later,
Dale M