Large boxwood logs

[george wilson]

I am sorry for the clutter in these pictures.I am still trying to get all the stuff I had stored at my former job stored in my home shop. My wife is finishing some porch furniture in the background. I am afraid that as well as a tool pig,I am also a wood,and metal pig!!!

These are 3 large boxwood logs,close to 100 years old,that I was lucky to buy from a retired wind instrument maker. They were dried in manure for 50 years.After that drying, at least,they haven't cracked further in the 20 years I have had them. The biggest one is about 10" across the large diameter. They are about 3' tall.The one in back is about 4' tall. The bark is gone from the logs,leaving the cambium. It is possible the bark was removed to help drying. A Forest Service guy,giving a lecture years ago,said that he had discovered a layer under the bark as waterproof as Saran Wrap. This helps trees not dry out and die.

These were hard to get at to shoot,so I did not bring them into the discussion of seasoning boxwood in the folding rule thread. Had I stated that I had such large boxwood,I think no one would have believed it. You would be hard pressed to find box this large today.Wood like this must be buried for 50 years in a manure pile to keep it from cracking to pieces.

Since I was shooting wood,there is also a shot of a Gaboon ebony wedge from a log. The wide side is towards the camera,but it is 9" at its widest,and 5' tall. This wood is also very old,and probably impossible go get in this size today. It is covered with hand adze marks all over,and looks more like a log than a wedge,but a wedge it is.

I have a collection of 100 year old mahogany also. You can tell it is very old because it has turned so dark brown. I bought it from the retiring old furniture conservator,Mr. Simms. I labeled the wood when I stacked it up,as I was afraid that I might forget what it was,as the rack is long and has a lot of different wood in it. Some of my favorite mahogany is the quartered Cuban mahogany. It is VERY heavy,and just about as hard as ebony. Also,there are several boards of curly Honduras mahogany. You can see a piece of curly mah. laying down in one picture. It has been surfaced,so you can see the actual color underneath the dark brown oxidized outer layer. The Cuban mahogany,however,is only a little lighter when cut open. This picture does not include my rare piece of peacock tail honduras mahogany,the only known such figured piece.It has a figure like overlapping peacock tails,like some marbled paper has. It is 18" wide,2" thick,and about 7' long,and too heavy to get down from the very top of the 22' lumber rack without help.

I also have 1000# of Brazilian rosewood cut in 1960 stored in a different area. There are pieces of Brazilian rosewood here and there in the 3rd. photo,and the 4th..

These all are what I consider fine woods.

[Jim Koepke]

Wow!

I'd be most hesitant at making something with that stock for fear of not making something worthy of the wood.

jim

[Mark Maleski]

If I owned wood of such quality I would be very worried that I couldn't produce an end product worthy of the ingredient. Glad to see this timber in your hands, George.

[george wilson]

That is exactly how I feel,Jim,and Mark. It is a big responsibility having some of this wood for that very consideration. Yet,at my age,I'd better get busy,or my wife will be having a large and unusual yard sale!! Then,lord knows who might make something awful out of it. Maybe I'd better leave it to Williamsburg.I've had the ebony 40 years,and did cut 1 little piece out of it. I hate to cut the boxwood,and I really do not know what to do with the peacock figured mahogany plank. Sometime I'll get help,drag it down,and show it to SMC. It is most unusual. Sandy Pond,where I bought it,was trying to find out where the rest of the log went. Had I been them,I'd never have sold it,even if they did get big bucks for it.

When I started teaching school shop,there was a walnut plank in the shop 50" wide,4" thick,and probably 10' long. I could have made something out of it,but was living in an apartment at the time. It was still there when I left. Probably turned into bookends by next year's students. Too bad.

[george wilson]

The best sounding flamenco guitar I ever made had boxwood back and sides. It had an incredibly "live" sound. Probably the only such guitar ever made,as the wood has to be at least 7" wide for the guitar back.I might do that again. At least,guitars don't take a LOT of wood to make a fairly sizeable object,that also has function.

[David Keller NC]

George - Probably beside the point (none of us like to part with any of our wood), but the boxwood you have is worth around $12-$15 a pound on the market. As you noted, large boxwood is nearly impossible to find.

The ebony, while valuable (about $7 per pound), isn't hard to come by, even in that size. Tropical Latin American hardwoods in San Diego has dozens of billets of it, all in fairly large sizes.

The rosewood, if Brazilian, is worth about $100 a board foot, depending on size, quality, and figure. A veneer cutter like Berkshire would be very, very interested in talking to you about it. My thought is that 1000 lbs. of it might bring you enough to buy a couple of new cars, should you decide to part with it.

[Pat Zabrocki]

that boxwood would make some pretty cool planes. I'll be Konrad Sauer would love to get his hands on that for some of his infills.

cheers
Pat

[george wilson]

Yes,wouldn't he,Pat? The same thought has crossed my mind,but it seems too wasteful to make a whole plane from it. Maybe infills would be o.k..

David,I haven't been looking for ebony for some years,since I also have a bunch of flat planks. I am surprised to hear that large ebony is still to be had. I remember back in the 70's,after I got my big wedge,ebony had become exceedingly hard to get.I was told by dealers that the ebony was already spoken for that was still coming in. I guess it depends upon the changing African politics.

My rosewood isn't suitable for making veneer. What I have is good for guitars mostly. My rosewood was what was left over from sawing logs into squares. Someone in upstate New York must have worked in a sawmill. He took the slabs home,and put them into a big barn where they stayed these many years. I have resawed some beautiful guitar backs and sides from a little of it. Some of it would make very nice shotgun sized gunstocks.Probably a bit heavy,though.

I still have rosewood I bought when I was in college. There was a veneer mill called Penrod,Jurden,and Clark not too far from the college. You could buy it for $2.50 a board foot then. That was money to me,since I never had much at that time. We could go there and buy BIG sheets of veneer for $1.00 each,no matter what size. I still have quite a bit of that,1/28" thick. I have original Tamo veneer used in the interior of 1959 Cadillacs that they cut for G.M..

[Danny Burns]

These are 3 large boxwood logs,close to 100 years old,that I was lucky to buy from a retired wind instrument maker. They were dried in manure for 50 years.After that drying, at least,they haven't cracked further in the 20 years I have had them. The biggest one is about 10" across the large diameter. They are about 3' tall.The one in back is about 4' tall. The bark is gone from the logs,leaving the cambium. It is possible the bark was removed to help drying. A Forest Service guy,giving a lecture years ago,said that he had discovered a layer under the bark as waterproof as Saran Wrap. This helps trees not dry out and die.

These were hard to get at to shoot,so I did not bring them into the discussion of seasoning boxwood in the folding rule thread. Had I stated that I had such large boxwood,I think no one would have believed it. You would be hard pressed to find box this large today.Wood like this must be buried for 50 years in a manure pile to keep it from cracking to pieces.

Nice Wood!!!!!!

Can you tell me more about the manure pile?
Does it just keep it moist? Is it the heat?
Never thought I'd be discussing manure!!! lol

[Brian Kent]

It seems like if you're an apprentice, told to keep the boxwood covered with manure, you would assume it was a prank initiation.

[Pedro Reyes]

That is exactly how I feel,Jim,and Mark. It is a big responsibility having some of this wood for that very consideration.

That's how I feel about an 8" wide piece of poplar ;)

Seriously, I think it is in very good hands and I hope you use it.

Kind of a paradox; On one end it could be wasteful to make a few solid items of such nice wood (as you mentioned whole planes) but also a shame to cut such a piece to make lots of small items e.g. moulding plane inserts.

What thoughts do you have? Please share.

/p

[george wilson]

Brian,and Danny,go to the thread about boxwood folding rules to hear about the seasoning of boxwood.

[David Keller NC]

"I remember back in the 70's,after I got my big wedge,ebony had become exceedingly hard to get.I was told by dealers that the ebony was already spoken for that was still coming in. I guess it depends upon the changing African politics.

Yeah - ebony (good ebony, at least) was really hard to get up until the last 5 years or so. As you mentioned, most of the large pieces I've seen show the marks of an adze, and sometimes a chainsaw. Based on what I've been reading, what's happening is the deforestation of the Congo forest. That creates a temporary glut on the market - sort of like those huge bubinga waterfall slabs that just about every wood dealer in the US seems to have had at least a couple of in the last year.

From what I understand, the bubinga slabs came from one african forest that was cut down that was old-growth. If that's so, then whomever buys a couple of those and sits on them for 10-15 years might make a very large amount of money. As it is now, I know of at least one dealer in NC that wishes he hadn't bought it - it's unsellable.

I've seen similar comments about mexican cocobolo - there was lots and lots of it 10 years ago, and it was really inexpensive for a rosewood. But the owner of Tropical Latin American Woods noted in a "Woodshop" magazine interview that he doesn't think he'll be selling exotics in 10 years - most of the forests that supply that kind of wood will be gone.

[Gary Herrmann]

George, I am available for adoption. Just thought you should know.

[george wilson]

David,the Woodcraft Supply store in Richmond has a big bubinga slab for sale,and a smaller one. The big one is about 32" wide and 7' long,about 1 3/4" thick,if I recall correctly. He wants something like $800.00 for it. there is 2" of sapwood on each edge. makes me wonder what my peacock figure mahogany plank is worth. The bubinga plank is quite featureless,though it would make a very nice desk,or table.

[David Keller NC]

That's about $25 a b.f., which is a lot less than most guys were asking for it when they first showed up a year ago. My guess is that there were so many of them that they just saturated the market, which I expect is a somewhat shallow for huge slabs (of anything). Of course, the figure of the particular plank figures into the asking price, as does the economy and the particular audience a store is selling to.

In my experience at least, Woodcraft's main buyer pool for lumber tends to be guys sort of putzing around the workshop making small "doo dad" projects like scroll-saw knick knack shelves, bandsaw boxes, etc... Nothing wrong with that of course, but it seems that the contractors in my area that would build large conference tables, high-end libraries for million dollar homes, etc... frequent another store here.

Your mahagony would need a special buyer, I would suspect. Probably someone making high-end colonial reproductions that needs a spectacular piece of figured stock for the door panels of a secretary, for example. Irion furniture co. would be one example - they landed a $5 million dollar contract a few years ago to fill a Pennsylvania mansion with colonial-era reproductions. Some of the pieces they reproduced went for well in excess of $100,000.

[george wilson]

If I get desperate someday I might sell the peacock mahogany,or just get too old to do anything anymore. Same goes for the big boxwood,or actually,ANY of the wood I've posted!!! Oink,Oink!!!

You are right about the customers. I met one who makes humidors. I went home with him,and he sold me a REALLY nice piece of curly maple,because it had SLIGHT variations in its curl. He wanted the curls to be as identical as planer cut marks. I thought he was quite full of it,myself. Glad to get the wood,though. It was beautiful.

[Mark Versprille]

Pedro, how about posting a pic of that piece of poplar. I love poplar.

[Thomas Knapp]

Since high quality Music woods are dried in manure, the next time someone tells me I do Sh*ty work, I'll take it as a compliment.:)

[george wilson]

I just yesterday gave 2 large poplar logs to my friend Jon. The biggest one was 37" in diameter at the base. this tree was nearly 80' tall,and was leaning over power lines,and towards our roof. It will be sawn into real wide boards.

The day after I had that tree taken down,we heard a large CRACK behind the house. A very tall oak tree had snapped off,landing on the roof of the house behind us. Beside it was a huge oak,that must have been 100' tall. they had to bring in a huge crane to take it down piecemeal. must have cost $6000.00,I bet. Mine cost $2000.00,but we got by with a 75' bucket truck. I felt lucky. We had just had a Winter storm,and I suppose the wind had weakened the tree enough to snap it off onto the roof.

[Richard Dooling]

George,

I also have some Cuban mahogany. The longest piece ~18” x 70” serves as my desk top - just right for a lap top computer. Most of the rest is 8/4 x 18” x 36” or so. The wood is somewhat over 50 years old. My dad picked it up in Gitmo when he was stationed there in he 1950s. Knowing I’m not likely to get any more, certainly not with the family connection, makes me cautious in approaching the wood.

Beautiful wood - not as figured as what you describe but very nice. I haven’t worked too much of it because I have not come up with a good project for pieces of this thickness. Maybe I'll resaw some for book matching but it is too wide for my equipment.

Thanks for what you share, your posts are often like free classes!


BTW, awhile back there was a discussion about wood hand plane finishes and you mentioned the method of plugging the mouth and flooding the body with BLO.
In another thread Raney Nelson posted this link:http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwmitrejack.html (http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwmitrejack.html) in answer to a question of mine.

That led me to this link where the process you described, is mentioned.
http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwjackplane.html (http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwjackplane.html)

.

[Adam Cherubini]

George,

I have some 100 year old boxwood that was seasoned in manure. But it's not that high quality material. In fact, it stinks! It's really crappy.

(sorry about that)

On a serious note, I suspect the manure does something besides keeping the material moist. There may be some enzymes that eat out the sap and replace it with something else (the way water does), stabilizing the wood cells as they dry.

I looked at drawer bottoms on Philadelphia furniture last year. It was all white cedar, nailed up from underneath with no room for expansion or contraction. For the most part the bottoms were uncracked (and original). Riven white cedar is pretty stable. But it was also from Jersey, no doubt floated across the Deleware where it may have seasoned along the sandy banks. Legend has it, wood seasoned in this way is more stable, or at very least, moves and checks less than air dried stock. Allegedly, slow curing is only part of the story.

Adam

[george wilson]

Richard,I appreciate you putting up the mention of filling planes with linseed oil. I got it from old Mr. Simms,in his 70's in 1970. I value what he taught me. He also taught the person who became curator of furniture later on.

I think your computer desk is too long,and you should saw half of it off and send it here so I can make sure it is Cuban!!! you are very lucky to have Cuban mahogany.Some is available in sources in Florida after bad hurricanes blow it down. It was $30.00 a bd. ft. in the 80's.I saw that the Florida Cuban mahogany was not any darker that honduras,though it was a lot harder. Williamsburg's furniture conservation shop bought some. the pieces were rather small,though,not anything like you have. Use it carefully.

[george wilson]

There may be some validity in what you say,Adam. I have no way of knowing about the enzymes. Interesting thought. The slower you can dry real hard wood,the better it will behave.That is for sure,and applies to ivory,too. Ivory was buried for some time in Africa before selling it to traders. Left too long,though,bugs would eat it. About water: Water tends to wash through logs left lengthwise to the direction of flow in rivers,reducing the eventual sap content. In Alaska,rafts of logs were anchored in rivers for some time before getting to the mill. When logs are first cut,the sap is very thin and watery,and can be washed out to some degree,depending upon treatment. It makes the wood easier to dry later on. Water leaves sooner than sap. Some think that is a Stradivarious secret,but the makers were using all the same wood,and varnish,too,in the area.

Let's not forget the logs being dragged up in the Great Lakes,where they have lain for a very long time. The wood is denser,probably being first growth,but the water seems to have had beneficial effects upon the wood also. It is more stable. They get big money for the old wood. The wood has been there since the 19th.C.,yet is still bright. Logs from bogs is different. It gets blackened,or darker,especially oak. Cypress is mined in the South like that. In Australia they also get old wood,Kauri pine IIRC,that way. If I recall,the old wood is the only wood they can cut of certain species.Kauri,I think. My memory isn't so good on that part. I may be corrected.

Walnut stumps were chained under water for several years to keep them from splitting where the butt figures were. this was done in the country areas of North Carolina. Some folks do not believe this is valid,but it is from old lore,and I saw it done for making fancy gunstocks from later on.

[george wilson]

I may put up a picture of the Brazilian rosewood,but it is in a lawn building,as I just don't have room for it inside,and have cut enough guitar backs out of it to last several years. I should actually show one of those,because the slabs of rosewood themselves aren't much to see,as they are old and grey on their outsides. Inside,though,some of the pieces are really beautiful.

[Richard Dooling]

Hey George,

Here is some of the cuban mahogony I mentioned. When it came into my hands it had been through various storage issues. The largest slab is a two piece 8/4 x 36" x 38" glue-up. I have no idea what Dad thought he would make out of a 3' square 2" slab. Or for that matter how the hell he was going to surface it - not a hand tool guy!

117878

[george wilson]

That looks like the real stuff,Richard!!! Oink Oink!! Snuffle!