Hanging Crown Molding - Looking for advice

[Josh Buckley]

Hello all,

fairly new to the creek. working on my first project, which afforded me the opportunity to acquire tools, with little knowledge of what I am doing or how to do it. So naturally jumped in with both feet and prayed I could swim. Turns out, im doggy paddling...

Coud use some advice...Attempting to finish our new son's room. After painting it, we decided to redo the trim... ran out of time for the vaca I had and now am under the gun to finish. I have the crown and chair rail left, and then need to fill nail holes and repaint.

I have searched the topic here and spent consideralbe time on the net trying to accumulate advice. Have a few questions below and would greatly appreciate any advice.

Project involves a 12x13 bedroom, all inside corners.

Tools I have at my disposal: Makita 1013fl, bosch digital miter angle finder, pc compressor with the two guns that come with it, no jigs.

Molding: Using mdf 3.5 inch crown. I have pre painted with two coats.

Here is what I am still struggling with:
1. Its going to be a one man show, so it sounds like pre cutting so 2x4 or 1x4 to help hold up crown is the way to go? I read somewhere that someone put nails on the line for the base of the crown to help hold up. Any suggestions?

2. Measuing, just going to do my best, my DIY book suggests measuring 1/8th long and coping? Not sure how the coping will go, I read another poster suggest coping crown is time consuming and not very ease. I did cope joings on the baseboard and managed to do ok on 3 of the 4 corners. Since I have the Makita and angle finder (no jig) am I better served cutting the miters? Do I then measure only the bottom length or do top as well?

3. Two of my walls do not have 2x4 in the ceiling. Is the 2 1/2 finish nails long enough to reach ceiling plate on top of wall, or should I put in nailers? If nailer, you only nail into the stud correct, not the ceiling (is there specific way to make nailers)? Also should I use glue along the top to assist in holding crown to ceiling? Suggestions on glue? DIY book suggest using differnt gauge nails at ends of run, can I just use the 16 g the gun came with? And should I nail center out, or corners in?

4. Issue with Makita saw. During installtion of door trim and base board, constantly used my bosch to try and make sure angles were correct to the 10th of a degree (e.g. 45.8), however it seems the fence is not square, and veries from left and right side of blade. Also as blade slides, appears to be off a little, read a few other issues with the saw on this site, but no one had any suggestions they said worked in getting saw square, which worries me with cutting angles...

5. filling nail holes - Since I have already painted was hoping to not have to sand. Is wood puddy, sandable wood filler, or dry wall compound best? I have read that puddy and compound are nice bc you can wipe off and not have to sand?

6. Finally (my fingers hurt lol), caulk. I read that taping either side of the joint to be caulked is a good idea. I bought one of the nifty caulk applyers so that seems easy going down a straight line btw molding and wall, however what about the face of miterd corners, not sure the tool will get between grooves neatly?

any insight to one or all of these would be greatly appreciated. I an buried in data and trying to pull a plan together for this weekend. I have been staring at it for 3 weeks now and starting to catch heat...

[Prashun Patel]

1. Trim nails will be enough to hold the pieces up while you nail. Draw a reference line along the wall. Nail 1 or 2 nails along the length. You won't need many. The ref line is advisable, because it's easy to change the angle inperceptibly without noticing it until you get to the corner and screw up yr cope.

2. Cope. Crown profiles are usually gentle and sweeping and easy to do. Further, the mdf cuts with a coping saw like butter. Get yrself a cheap 4-in-1 rasp and you'll be able to cope perfectly. It takes a little practice, but is definitely the way to go on crown.

3. An adhesive is unnecessary. 16ga willbe plenty. I WOULD take time screw a 1x2 nailer around the perimeter at the ceiling/wall intersection. It doesn't have to be beveled. Then nail into this. 2 1/2 on an angle thru drywall and hoping to hit the ceiling plate is dicey.

4. Make an aux fence and stops to hold yr crown at up and at the correct angle so you can cut simple miters instead of having to deal with compounds. It's possible to do it the flat way, but it's harder. Also, if you make a jig, you can shim it so it's perfectly square to the blade like yr fence should be.


5. Use light weight spackle. It'll be plenty for the crown, and you won't notice any shrinking that occurs. You PROBABLY won't even have to paint it. I wouldn't use wood filler because it'll dry brown and require priming and painting.

6. Not worth the effort, IMHO. Just work in small sections, keep a yogurt container with water and an old magazine on the ladder. Wet yr finger, wipe the joint, wipe on the newspaper, rinse yr finger. Move along until you get sore. Then use yr middle finger... In fact, if you keep the bead small and use a good caulk gun, then you might not even have to wipe it at all.

Caulk is your very best friend on white, painted crown molding. With patience, it'll look perfect.

[Phil Phelps]

Here is what I am still struggling with:
1. Its going to be a one man show, so it sounds like pre cutting so 2x4 or 1x4 to help hold up crown is the way to go? I read somewhere that someone put nails on the line for the base of the crown to help hold up. Any suggestions?

Here is a tip a guy showed me a few years back. If you set your crown in a perfect 90 degree box, measure exactly how far down the moulding sets. Tack a block on the opposit end of the corner and it will hold and set the crown in place where it should be. Use a sliding T bevel to see the exact degree each corner is. If, ie., your corner measures 94 degrees, two 45's won't work. Make the adjustment before you cut.

[Josh Buckley]

shawn, thanks for the insight.

Re: the nailer, would you do only the two walls with no ceiling support or entire thing?

Any suggestions on the type or brand of spackle to use?

In terms of caulk, avoid taping both sides? So you are saying to first wet the joint, apply caulk and then smooth with your finger covered with magazine or newsapaper? Sry this part was a little unclear to visualize.

Thanks again for your input!!!

[Josh Buckley]

so you would suggest setting blocks in each corner to hold the molding and cutting the miters? Assume you tack the blocs at the same angle the molding ins from wall to ceiling to hold into place?

[Chris Konikowski]

As someones sig says:
cut, cope, cuss, caulk, drink a beer. or something like that...

[Prashun Patel]

shawn, thanks for the insight.

I did all 4 walls in the rooms in my house. Cheap peace of mind.

Spackle brand, doesn't matter. DAP's as good as anything.

The taping would work, but it's just too much effort IMHO. Shoot the caulk. Then wet yr finger - not dripping, just so it's moist - don't overthink this part; then wipe the joint with yr wet finger. Best caulk advice I got was to act like the joint's HOT; you just swipe fairly quickly - don't work it too much. After each swipe, wipe yr dirty finger on the mag to remove the excess, then rinse in water, and continue down the line. The key to a clean joint is a clean, quick finger. You wet yr finger to keep it clean and lubed.

[Chris Padilla]

As someones sig says:
cut, cope, cuss, caulk, drink a beer. or something like that...

Who said that? :rolleyes:

[frank shic]

josh, get a copy of either gary katz's book on trim carpentry or his dvd on crown molding. you could use something like the 2x4 or a third hand from fast cap or even the crown molding clip hangers that mcfeely's sells for holding those long pieces while you're tacking them in place. cut the crown in position upside down lying against the fence and miter the corners - there's no need to cope MDF which is usually far enough for close scrutiny unless you want the extra practice. forget the extra nailers and just cross nail them on the ceilings without joists. make an auxiliary fence to clamp to the miter saw to make it easy to position the molding. spackle and caulk without the extra taping. good luck!

[Prashun Patel]

I have crown in a 2-story family room that has the uncoped corners opening up after a couple years. You can see it. It's a simple matter to recaulk it in yr son's room, though. IMHO, coping's easier than getting the miter right on a compound cut. Just me.

[Chris Padilla]

IMHO, coping's easier than getting the miter right on a compound cut. Just me.

With 4 inside corners, your last piece must be double-coped...or fitted with a spline joint....

[Prashun Patel]

So what? If you miter, you have a double miter to do on the closing piece. Not any easier (for me at least...). In fact, it's harder, since the opening piece has to be cut right at the time it's put into place.

An easier soln in whether he miters or copes is to start 4ft from the corner in an open scarf joint. Then the last piece is coped on one end and scarfed on the end, which is easy to sneak up on with the miter saw.

[Michael Panis]

I forget where I grabbed these tips (probably SMC), but they are invaluable :)


Tips on installing crown molding in an older home
Tip #1: DON'T! If you are doing this as a lark, pick another project as this one can potentially drive you absolutely batty and leave you awfully frustrated. On the other hand, nothing adds a nice touch to a room like crown molding ...

Tip #10:
Do not have your spouse help you. Pick an independent third party, never, never your spouse. Putting this stuff up is frustrating, and you probably want to take it out on a friend instead of your spouse ...
Some things that helped me:
Rockler (and other places I'm sure) carries these extension poles that can hold crown molding against the all and ceiling while you are climbing up and down a ladder. I couldn't imagine doing it without these.

I nailed blocks of wood to the wall, at the wall joists, and then nailed the molding into these with smaller nails.

Good luck!

[phil harold]

12x13 bedroom
you dont need backing with mdf
snap line on walls
decide which corner is lease visible when you enter the room make that be the start/end corner
your direction you start in, clockwise or counter clockwise is decided by which way you will view the joints the most (the cope butting into the crown looks best after time) or you can go by which way is easier to cope.
take an 8p finish nail and tack it 2/3 of the way from the start install on the line you snapped
first piece is installed butted to each wall leave the last 2' loose where the other piece will cope into it (fudge factor)
the lines that you snapped are guides wall bowing and what not you may have to twist and cheat the molding but keep your corners on the money
cut an 1/8 long cope then spring in last one gets double cope
mdf will crich and deform if there is too much of a spring to be pressed in

your saw is a sliding compound miter saw lay the molding flat to cut is best on bigger moldings here is a link to the angle tables to set your saw to
http://www.dewalt.com/us/articles/article.asp?Site=woodworking&ID=2

have fun

[Chris Konikowski]

Who said that? :rolleyes:
lol...It was chill, not drink beer... :D Same thing in my eyes...:cool:

BTW, I think it was a guy named.....Chris P-something or other....:confused:

[Michael Pyron]

2" 16 ga. nails will grab the top plate if you shoot through the area just above the cove on the bottom of the crown (I'm assuming you're using a typical 8012 profile)...I also take the time to cross nail (2 nails through 1 hole @ ~90° to each other) to the ceiling which gives good holding power and when a GOOD caulk is added will be fine...I use the above on crown that sits 3½" down from the ceiling, I assume you are talking about crown that is 3½" wide...NO BACKING IS REQUIRED....

I butt joint any splices so I can cut the pieces long (~¼" for 32') and snap them together, this being done after the pieces to either side are done so that the pieces being joined have something to set to in the corners...uses lots of glue, sand while wet and come back and sand the next day again...I get seamless joints this way...you are using pre-finished materials so you have an issue here in the concept of getting seamless joints....as long as you use pieces long enough, the measurements you give should be achievable with stock lengths of material

cut the crown upside down and backwards on a fence that has a mark for the correct 'elevation' so that it sits correctly...cutting crown flat with a compound miter saw is a joke unless you have material you saw won't cut standing up...don't even bother coping MDF, its a joke and really doesn't work worth a flip...

just the 2¢ of a person who took the time to go through receipts once and stopped counting after he got a tally of over 60,000 pieces of crown run (a piece being from 5/8" for a rounded corner, to a full 16' piece)

[fRED mCnEILL]

I know some will dissagree witrh this method but I have done my house and my daughters house this way and it has worked out fine.

I don't put any blocking in at all. I simply nail the crown directly to the wall and ceiling using my air nailer. When I shoot the brads I shoot 2 or more in an x-formation which prevents the brads from pulling out. Its OK to shoot multiple brads because its easy to fill the holes(which are small)
Once everything is nailed up and calked and painted it is very secure.(have you ever tried to remove trim that has been painted-it wants to pull the paper right off the drywall.)

Good luck

Fred M.

[Grant Vanbokklen]

depending on how much your doing and how complicated you want to get...check Gary Katz series on crown moulding and the miter saw at smartflix.com.

[Ed Taylor Greensboro NC]

Cope - definiely. I generally cut flat ends on opposite walls, and double copy the other opposite walls. On a 12' or so run I add an extra 3/16" to the measurement... when you put it up, the wood will compress and give you a nice tight joint

[Jim Mattheiss]

The best advice I can offer is USE AN AIR NAILER!!!!!!!

I've put up a bunch of crown in the 2 houses I've owned. I'm a computer programmer by trade and can't consistently swing a hammer with any precision. The nailer is a life saver/time saver/swear word conserver.

The only other advice I have is to make a LEFT and RIGHT sample cope about 12" long. As you are setting a piece you use the samples to make sure the piece you are mounting is properly "rotated" so that the top and bottom are hitting the wall properly.

Jim

[phil harold]

The only other advice I have is to make a LEFT and RIGHT sample cope about 12" long. As you are setting a piece you use the samples to make sure the piece you are mounting is properly "rotated" so that the top and bottom are hitting the wall properly.

Jim


there is some good advise, I do that with wood crown alot

[Dennis Thornton]

I installed crown once in a bathroom. 4 walls that were square and it was a small bathroom. It came out ok.

I wanted to put crown in our upstairs landing. Two of the doorways were at angles. I had inside and outside corners, 160degree angles, what a mess. I knew I couldn't do it without approximately 5x the lineal feet in extra crown.

I then read someone's recommendations here on the forum. I bought the fixtures from Cutncrown. My plan went from a single piece to a 3 piece built up crown. It came out really good. I bought a little more than I measured and had extra left over when I was done.

If you're like me and don't have much experience in trim take a look at their web site. I saved more in material costs in one project than the cost of their fixture.