Square or Round Dogs?

[William Diaz]

I am attempting to build my first workbench and was using ideas I saw on the web. I noticed, for dogs, some had square holes and some had circle holes for the dogs? Which is better and why? Honestly, I would prefer the cheaper, in cost not quality, route.

My thoughts are: First, I can make square dogs from Maple or some other hardwood, much easier than circle one. (Table saw or Miter saw for square ones over Lathe for round ones) Second, which may be a downside is I already have the top for most of my workbench glued, so the square hole would only be on the width side of my top. That's all I can think of right now.

Thanks for your input.

[Jerome Hanby]

Sam Allen's workbench book talks about the round dog holes being more versatile because it allows you to easily construct jigs or whatever that can plug into those holes. I think general consensus would be that round holes are certainly easier to retrofit to an existing bench. Wonder dogs, wonder pups, and other similar add-ons use round dog holes. I think round dogs might be a little more versatile when to comes to holding round or curved pieces.

Square dogs allow you to show off your workmanship, certainly look classy, and have to be better at holding straight material.

No reason you couldn't do both...

[John Thompson]

I have used both.. both have their place. I suggest you make round holes and round dogs but... make some round dogs and square one side of the top. I keep them in a little plastic container on a shelf beside the bench. When I think round it more appropriate.. they are within reach. When I think square are more appropriate.. they ae within reach.

This is one those questions that fall into the left tilt.. right tilt category and there are pro's and con's to both so..... why not have both?

Good luck...

Sarge..

[Rod Sheridan]

Round holes accept holdfasts, so I'd go with round dog holes......Rod.

[Charlie Schultz]

I built my bench with square holes. I wish I would've made them round- much more useful.

[William Diaz]

Well it appears that of the replies I've received so far lean towards round dogs. I mentioned earlier, cost. If I go with Grizzly or Woodcraft, steel dogs, I'm looking at paying 40 bucks for just four of them. I'm not sure how many I may need but I was looking at getting at a minimum, eight dogs. So, that being said I am thinking of getting my lathe out and making round ones out of 1x1 maple and leaving about an inch on top for support and as a stopping point, and rounding the rest to 3/4 shaft.

The image, I hope you can see my idea, is what I plan on making.
The image is from a paint application...I'm not a graphic designer so bare with me.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
All our dogs end up round.
;)

[Jeff Dege]

The problem with the square top is that you can't adjust the amount by which the dog protrudes from the bench.

[William Diaz]

The problem with the square top is that you can't adjust the amount by which the dog protrudes from the bench.

Couldn't you use my same idea and make the square top 1 inch and the shaft of the dog 3/4 inch but square. This would give you the option for the dog to stop at that distance, right?

[glenn bradley]

I went round. Dogs and accessories are easily made or bought.http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=102897&d=1228504888

[John Thompson]

I'm like Glenn, I won't pay for something this simple I can make. I simply use hard-wood dowels as I have no lathe. Drill some corresponding holes with a forstner in a scrap block of wood then cross-cut and rip them into squares. Add a dab of glue and slide them on the dowel.

As far as not being able to adjust the height... simply plane a board down thinner and do the same thing. Scrap is cheap and you can make various size and height dog heads for practically nothing.. You say you need at least 8... you can make 20 in one run for under $3 in dowels using scrap laying around.

Edit.. Opps, as was in a hurry... this method is how I used to make square dogs with round dowels. It can be used to get various thickness heads as mentioned. Glenn's method is better as the those pins are spring loaded and the same dowel can be adjusted to any height allowing use of one dog for all.

Again.. good luck...

Sarge..

[Dave Lehnert]

I went round. Dogs and accessories are easily made or bought.http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=102897&d=1228504888
Thanks!

Great idea.

[Jeff Dege]

Couldn't you use my same idea and make the square top 1 inch and the shaft of the dog 3/4 inch but square. This would give you the option for the dog to stop at that distance, right?
I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. Suppose you were sanding or planing the surface of a thick board. You'd want your benchdogs to be set fairly high on the bench. If you were sanding something thin, you'd want them set shallow. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how you could set a benchdog at different depths using the design you posted.

[Jeff Dege]

Is there an advantage to gluing a square block on the end of a round dowel, so as to make a flat surface, over simply sawing a notch into the end of a round dowel to make a flat surface?

[Tony Bilello]

.......... Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how you could set a benchdog at different depths using the design you posted.


Simple, do like I do and make several with varying thickness heads. I also have round and square heads, I even have some doubles. They only take a few minutes to make on a lathe and it's all done with scraps.
If you own a lathe, a round shaft is faster to make than a square shaft with glue-ups on a table saw.

[glenn bradley]

Is there an advantage to gluing a square block on the end of a round dowel, so as to make a flat surface, over simply sawing a notch into the end of a round dowel to make a flat surface?

I just sanded a flat face at about 5* on the round stock. I got the idea that dipping them in plastic was good; it isn't bad but, if and when it comes off I probably won't bother again.

[Jeff Dege]

Simple, do like I do and make several with varying thickness heads.
That is the simple insight I'd been missing. And with a square head, you don't need a spring to keep the dog from falling down the hole. Simple, and easy.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I went with round, and have a pair of the Veritas 6" bench dogs, mostly due to the fact that some day I will get a pair of Wonder Dogs for panels when I need them. So far, I have not needed them, as my vise works well with the dogs.

One thing I would counsel on is to make sure you have the bottom of the bench well backed up, to prevent tear out. Admittedly, it is on the bottom of the bench, but it is nice to keep the holes clean. I also chamffered the edges of the top of the holes, which left them very clean looking.

Doc

[John Thompson]

"Is there an advantage to gluing a square block on the end of a round dowel, so as to make a flat surface, over simply sawing a notch into the end of a round dowel to make a flat surface"? ... Jeff

The advantage to me is that you can use various thicknesses in lieu of some kind of adjuster as Glenn uses. If you use short dowels that don't have heads.. don't let one go below table depth or you will have to place a smaller dowel under the top hole and drive it back up or.. drive it through from the top.

With a head that is larger than the hole.. no chance of that. For that matter you can glue a square block on top and then take it to a vertical belt sander and round it. Many ways to skin a cat and as long as they all work.. same end result.

Sarge..

[Jeff Dege]

The advantage to me is that you can use various thicknesses in lieu of some kind of adjuster as Glenn uses. If you use short dowels that don't have heads.. don't let one go below table depth or you will have to place a smaller dowel under the top hole and drive it back up or.. drive it through from the top.
Yep. I'd figured that out from what an earlier poster wrote. If you have a head that won't fit through the hole, you don't need to mess about with springs to keep the dog from slipping.

[William Diaz]

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. Suppose you were sanding or planing the surface of a thick board. You'd want your benchdogs to be set fairly high on the bench. If you were sanding something thin, you'd want them set shallow. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how you could set a benchdog at different depths using the design you posted.

Jeff,

You're right, I was thinking of something different, but looking at your pictures, I may go this route. What are you using for the pins?

[Jeff Dege]

Jeff,

You're right, I was thinking of something different, but looking at your pictures, I may go this route. What are you using for the pins?
Those are brass Veritas Benchdogs I bought from Woodcraft. I included the pictures to describe what I meant when I was talking about setting the dogs at varying heights to accommodate different thicknesses of materials, not as examples of something I'd made.

I've thought about making my own dogs from wood. I like that they'd be cheap, and they'd not damage my tools if I hit one accidentally. But without a spring of some sort, I couldn't see how they'd hold their height.

I'd thought I'd come up with an easy method for installing a spring in a shop-made round wooden benchdog. First, drill a hole down the axis in one end. Then make two cuts with a wide-kerfed saw on the end, so that when you looked down the end you'd see an 'X' with the hole in the center. Then stuff the hole with a length of eraser refill, which should push out the four corners, creating a spring action.

I'd not yet gotten around to trying to build them. I may never. Glenn Bradley has posted in this thread his shop-made benchdogs, using commercial spring detents, which might be easier to make, depending upon your tool setup.

But the folks who've been saying forget about the springs, glue the dowel into a top that's too wide to fit down the hole, and make different dogs with different top thicknesses, have a strong argument. Scrap and glue are both cheap.

[William Diaz]

Solution (I think): I found something on the web for Aluminum rods, 3/4 inch, for about 22 bucks. I can buy a 6 ft piece for 22 buck on speedymetals.com (http://www.speedymetals.com/default.aspx). I have no problem cutting aluminum and can make 11 dogs at 6 inches a piece. What do you think?

Woodcraft sells aluminum dogs for 100 bucks. I'm not knocking Woodcraft, because they take all my money on every visit :), but attempting to find a cheaper yet practical solution.

[John Schreiber]

Solution (I think): I found something on the web for Aluminum rods, 3/4 inch, for about 22 bucks. I can buy a 6 ft piece for 22 buck on speedymetals.com (http://www.speedymetals.com/default.aspx). I have no problem cutting aluminum and can make 11 dogs at 6 inches a piece. What do you think?

Woodcraft sells aluminum dogs for 100 bucks. I'm not knocking Woodcraft, because they take all my money on every visit :), but attempting to find a cheaper yet practical solution.

Small problem. A 3/4" rod won't fit easily into a 3/4" hole. If your holes are a little bigger or your can reduce the size of the rod by a .01 or so, you'll be ok. But that's harder than it seems.

I like using round dogs with bullet catches like in the picture earlier in the thread. I keep a bunch of them right in the dog holes and just push them up or down or move them around as I need them.

[Matt Benton]

Glenn, can you recommend a supplier for those catches?

[Tony Bilello]

Glenn, can you recommend a supplier for those catches?

OK, why do you need catches?
I never had any of my simple home made dogs jump out on me.

[glenn bradley]

Glenn, can you recommend a supplier for those catches?

Lee Valley bought a bunch of them without strikes to go with them (or that was the sales pitch) and therefor sold them pretty cheap. I am not using them just to keep the dog from falling through the hole. I use them for a friction fit so I can have as much dog exposed as I want. A lot for grabbing 8/4 for planing and a little for grabbing 1/4" material, eh? The friction fit is virtually adjustable. I don't have to grab the right dog for the job; they're all equal.

[Andy Bardowell]

Depends on the material for your top William if its hardwood then there’s no worry either way and there’s more round stuff to buy such as hold downs, wonder dogs, pups, etc. If it’s someone building a bench out of dimensional softwood lumber such as “Bob & Dave’s Good Fast & Cheap Bench” then the round dog holes will tend to enlarge over time and the dogs will begin to climb out.

[dave pant]

Why couldnt you just put a screw with a washer on on the bottom of the hole that just barely protrudes into hole to stop the tails from falling through?