Lets See Your Dust Collector Setup

[Chuck Isaacson]

Let me start by saying that I dont have my workshop finished yet but it is started. Let me also say that I dont have a DC yet but I know which one I would like to get.

This is my plan. I Plan on getting a 2HP cyclone DC from Grizzly. I am going with a cyclone because I am in a wheelchair and the option to get something that is smaller and move it around and connect it to each thing that I want to use is just not an option. The shop that I am building is going to be 24x30. I plan on having the entrance to this shop centered on the 24ft inside wall that separates the garage from the workshop. When you are looking at the shop door from the garage, it is my plan to have the DC in the corner to the left. It will go through the shop wall and distribute out from there. I plan on having my TS planer, and jointer in the middle of the shop with a miter saw and perhaps a router table on the wall to the right, and a bandsaw somewhere. The wall to the left will be full of cabinets. If you go to this thread you can kind of see what I am doing.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=109850

I want to place the DC outside of the shop so that I dont have to listen to it. I am also going to put my air compressor out there so I dont have to listen to it either. I was just informed my so fellow creekers that I need to have some return air to help with performance. What I would like to do but am not sure if I can is have the intake and the fitler both go through the wall into the shop. Is it possible to put the cyclone together like that? I would like to see other peoples ideas and pictures. If I need to change the location I can still do that before I get the shop wall built, but I need to know. And post some pics of your setups so that we can all be inspired by what you have done. Thanks in advance for all the info.

Chuck

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chuck....think about this for a minute. If you put your mouth over a pipe that is sealed at the other end......you can suck on it until you get so much air out of it and then...nothing.....If you remove the cap on the other end..and if it is large enough in diameter you can suck/breath all you want. This holds true for a DC....if you are pulling air out of the room at 1100 CFM....you had better be able to return air to the room at 1100 CFM.

Jim Becker put his in a closet and built a return air duct that when looked at from the side resembles a "Z". Sound travels in straight lines. By making the return duct in the shape of a "Z" and then lining it with sound deadening material, he can run it without hearing it.

[Chuck Isaacson]

Chuck....think about this for a minute. If you put your mouth over a pipe that is sealed at the other end......you can suck on it until you get so much air out of it and then...nothing.....If you remove the cap on the other end..and if it is large enough in diameter you can suck/breath all you want. This holds true for a DC....if you are pulling air out of the room at 1100 CFM....you had better be able to return air to the room at 1100 CFM.

Jim Becker put his in a closet and built a return air duct that when looked at from the side resembles a "Z". Sound travels in straight lines. By making the return duct in the shape of a "Z" and then lining it with sound deadening material, he can run it without hearing it.

So if I build it in a closet and then just cut a hole in the wall back into the shop that would suffice? Or rather than a whole use PVC in a bent sort of shape to return the air. Some thing like that?

Chuck

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chuck,

Jim actually built a rectangular return. Because any bend adds resistance to air flow, in the case of a "Z" shaped return, you 'd want it quite a bit larger than the incoming air duct.

Check out this thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=6770

[Norm Koerner]

The return to the room/shop doesnt need to be any kind of pipe. It can be a piece of filter material hung rigidly in an square or rectangular hole on the inner wall to the shop. The material can help reduce noise, too, and yet another piece of cloth or carpeting can be hung inside like a curtain to capture even more noise.

Some folks build a little closet outside the shop, with an exterior door for removal of chips and sawdust.

Norm Koerner

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chuck,

My shop is 30'x24' also. Check this thread out to see how Oneida and I designed my DC installation.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=77637


Basically..my shop is 30' long North-South. My Oneida DC is in the S/W corner of the shop. The main pipe comes out of the DC going east and immediately forks. One fork goes to the west wall and then down behind my lathe.

The other fork runs east along the south wall....and forks again.

One fork goes along the ceiling up the middle of the shop and then drops down. This is my most used port. I have quick disconnects on my T/S, my B/S, my jointer, my planer and my disc/oscillating spindle sander. I switch the pipe to the machine I'm using.

The remaining fork continues east along the south wall of my shop to the southeast corner and then turns north and runs along the east wall. This circuit is used on my SCMS.

So...that's it.

[Joe Jensen]

MY DC setup is a 2HP Oneida Super Gorilla. I have it in a 3 car garage. I have most of the tools set up so the runs to the collector are very short. The TS has a total duct length of 10 ft. The shaper only 4 ft, the planer is only 8 feet, and the Bandsaw is only 8 feet. The collector has a 7" port which I reduce to 6". I use 6" for the RAS, Jointer, Planer, and Drum sander. 5" to the TS lower port, shaper, and Bandsaw. The above table saw dust collector has a 4" port connected to a 3" flex hose.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/_NIK1427.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/_NIK1433.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/_NIK1432.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/_NIK1429.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/AZEngineer/_NIK1437.jpg

[John Keeton]

Chuck, the thread on my installation is here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=79131).

[Jimmy Coull]

Bill,

I'm different than most people in that I have a large, 40 x 32, shop disconnected from my house by about 200 feet. But I'm in need of a garage for the cars and a free standing one can be built fairly cheaply, but an attached one is a little more expensive and much more of a hassle, and since it will be for cars I would like it attached.

A detached workshop is cheaper and easier to build than an attached garage.;)

Jimmy

[Norm Koerner]

I don't know why so many of you guys complain about the cost of tools and then turn around and spend over $1000 on dust collection. I had my former student, an engineering graduate of the Univ of IL, make a medium sized cyclone for under $120. Then I bought a 2-1/2 horse blower from Penn State for under $300. And the quality bags from that outfit in Florida. And for Pete's sake use the spiral pipe (under $20 for 10-foot sections in 6" diameter) and sweeping elbows to reduce drag.

[Chuck Isaacson]

I don't know why so many of you guys complain about the cost of tools and then turn around and spend over $1000 on dust collection. I had my former student, an engineering graduate of the Univ of IL, make a medium sized cyclone for under $120. Then I bought a 2-1/2 horse blower from Penn State for under $300. And the quality bags from that outfit in Florida. And for Pete's sake use the spiral pipe (under $20 for 10-foot sections in 6" diameter) and sweeping elbows to reduce drag.

Sorry there Hoss. Not all of us are engineers.

Chuck

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

Let's keep this on subject. This thread is here so that Chuck can get a look at your DC setups...not to hear your opinions on whether or not he should spend several thousands of dollars on a Dc or not or whether someone's lucky dog to have a free standing shop.

[Bill Blackburn]

there ya go Ken --- I deleted my words so all are happy I guess:(

[Joe Jensen]

I don't know why so many of you guys complain about the cost of tools and then turn around and spend over $1000 on dust collection. I had my former student, an engineering graduate of the Univ of IL, make a medium sized cyclone for under $120. Then I bought a 2-1/2 horse blower from Penn State for under $300. And the quality bags from that outfit in Florida. And for Pete's sake use the spiral pipe (under $20 for 10-foot sections in 6" diameter) and sweeping elbows to reduce drag.

Maybe many don't have access to your form student/engineer :mad:

[glenn bradley]

One end of my run is the gated bandsaw. The upper and lower hoses use a single gate into one of the mains.

117406

The main runs about 5" off the floor and banded to the wall below my cleat mounted fixtures (clamps, hand tools, etc.). This floor area needs to stay clear to allow access to tools and clamps and raising the main a few inches created a toe kick space so that I really don't even notice it is there. The dual 45* fittings send me vertical through the two gated downspouts that serve the TS and RT.

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You can see the upper of the downspouts in the lower left. Here the main snakes around to provide the TS overarm (the overarm hose at the business end of the mast moves via a slip-fit from the hood to my RT fence as required. It's not as congested against the wall as it appears in 2-D. The snaking is to keep clearance for my breaker panel and position the main for a future branch up and across the ceiling.

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The lower RT feed runs behind the TS and parallels the lower TS feed back to the two downspouts shown earlier.

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The Cyclone is positioned so that access to filter scrubber handles is clear and rolling the barrel out for emptying is too easy.

117410

Keep normal operations and DC maintenance in mind when laying out your runs, I lost count of how many revisions I went through before I got here. I did end up with plenty of leftovers once I stopped trying to route pipe all over the shop. The revelations came (since I am a little dense) once I was positioning the actual ducting; much easier to visualize with it in your hands.

[Chuck Isaacson]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=117410
This is what I wanted to see. I want to put mine together like this, with both the intake and the return facing the same way, so that I can run both the intake and the return through the same wall. If I put the filter in the shop, then I should prevent a negative pressure situation, correct? Thanks for the info guys! But keep the pics coming, I love to the what you guys have done to make your systems work.

[glenn bradley]

This is what I wanted to see. I want to put mine together like this, with both the intake and the return facing the same way, so that I can run both the intake and the return through the same wall.

You can see the mounting blocks between the cyclone and the wall. On this particular model, with intake and exhaust on the same side -and- with exhaust on the 'wall side', I required a 3" standoff to allow room for the filter. The length of the blocks was determined by stud locations.

John Keeton's install is a great example of making the unit fit your space. It sounds like you will have the unit in one room and pipe the airflow in and out through the wall so other mounting requirements may come into play but after getting through this I realize that the trepidation is more taxing than the actual install. A stand provides the most flexibility of placement but I could not give up the extra floorspace. HTH.

[John Keeton]

This is what I wanted to see. I want to put mine together like this, with both the intake and the return facing the same way, so that I can run both the intake and the return through the same wall. If I put the filter in the shop, then I should prevent a negative pressure situation, correct? Thanks for the info guys! But keep the pics coming, I love to the what you guys have done to make your systems work.Chuck, on the Oneida, and I am sure on the Grizzly, you can rotate the motor/impeller unit to achieve the direction you want - limited, of course, by clearance for the filter. However, if you are extending the discharge/exhaust pipe back into the shop area, then clearance shouldn't be an issue.

Keep in mind, however, that a good part of the sound of a DC comes from the exhaust, so putting the filter back in the shop area would cure the negative pressure, but not do so much for the noise. I am sure there would be some reduction, but probably not a lot.

[Chuck Isaacson]

Keep in mind, however, that a good part of the sound of a DC comes from the exhaust, so putting the filter back in the shop area would cure the negative pressure, but not do so much for the noise. I am sure there would be some reduction, but probably not a lot.

Would one of those in-line mufflers help with the sound of the returning air?

Chuck

[Jim O'Dell]

Here is my shop rehap thread where I document my cyclone install. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14427&page=2 The cyclone part starts at post 49.
If you can, try to have at least 5' of straight pipe as the ducting enters the cyclone. This helps with turbulence. Gentle turns also keep resistance down, which translates into more suction power at the tool. Jim.

[Gregory Stahl]

Would one of those in-line mufflers help with the sound of the returning air?

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

If you want to hear a 3HP Grizzly run, you are welcome to come down to my shop in Oregon, just south of Madison. I don't think it is that loud, at least it does not bother me. Once I had sealed everything up tight--the noise diminished to the point that I just leave it run and can listen to the radio over the noise. Yes, I do have the radio turned-up a bit louder though.

My ducting is just PVC--readily available and low cost. I rent my shop space, so I didn't want to invest too much until I build a permanant shop.

Best,
Greg Stahl

[glenn bradley]

Would one of those in-line mufflers help with the sound of the returning air?

Chuck

Mine has the muffler (you can see it peeking out from behind the duct at the top of the filter) and I do not know that it made that much difference. I did not have the advantage of hearing it with, without, with, without as the hose needed to be cut to install it so my feelings are a bit subjective.

[Greg Crawford]

They're not Grizzlys, but here are a few. Lot's of varied layouts.

http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones.com/main.php

[Leigh Betsch]

Another twist on a DC system. Mounted outside my shop in the main barn. Two motors & two fans, one pushing thru the cyclone one pulling. From there into a prefilter, and then back into the shop. I still have to build the final filter box. Shop built duct work. Short sections of Borg 30 ga piping. I get about 800 cfm at the drum sander.

[Jimmy Coull]

Putting the filter back into the room will prevent a negative air problem, it will also bring conditioned air (a/c or heat) back in to the room without much loss.

Good luck,
Jimmy

[Joel Earl]

Hmmmmmmmm. I've heard now from a couple of you that been using the 30ga duct from BORG's - ever any issue with strength Leigh ?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hmmmmmmmm. I've heard now from a couple of you that been using the 30ga duct from BORG's - ever any issue with strength Leigh ?

I suggest you research John Keeton's installation. He used some 30 gauge and when the DC fired up, it flattened it.

[Rod Sheridan]

My shop is mostly 30 gauge ducting, the hangers are pieces of wood with a round, snug hole cut in them to hang them, and help them retain their shape.

I use two hangers per 5 foot length, breaking each length of pipe into 3 spaces. This helps the pipe resist collapse. (One end of each pipe has a rolled collar built in which reinforces the pipe as well).

My brothers shop is the same, mine has a 1.5 HP Oneida cyclone with external filter, his is 2 HP Oneida pro model.

A decade of service between them without issues.....Regards, Rod.

[Leigh Betsch]

I built most of my duct work out of 1/4 hardboard and 1/2 plywood, it holds up to the low pressure very well. I used 2 foot sections of 30 ga 6" dia pipe between fittings. So the longest pipe section I have is 2 feet. My system will flatted a 5' 30 ga pipe in a hearbeat if it is dead headed.

[Scott Rollins]

Leigh any pics of your square( I assume) duct you built from 1/4" hard board and 1/2" ply?

[Leigh Betsch]

Here is a pic. The duct is 3 x 10 IIRC. I found an online calculator that calculated the equivalent size to a 7" dia pipe. I figured heck I'm a woodworker so I ought to be able to build my own duct work! I need to paint the mounting brackets, they were an afterthought.

[Kendall Landry]

You could do something like this. Their is a Clear Vue cyclone in there. 5 horse. Walls are insulated. Two vents. One on top next to the light is bout 11 inches square. It makes a U-turn and goes to the motor and down over it to the MDF bracket that it's mounted to. Venting heat from motor. Vent on door comes up from near the floor. Both are lined with blue insulating board for sound deadening. Without the closset or volt as I call it, it's a jet plane. Very loud!! In the volt, I hear it humm. What I hear most is the suction from which ever port is open. All told about $2300 I can post some pics of the inside if you like.