"Infused with an acrylic"

[Eric Brown]

Blue Spruce is offering tools with handles that are " infused with an acrylic". Lee Valley also offer sliding bevels with something similar.

Does anyone know how this can be done at home without spending a fortune?

My guess is that the wood is immersed into a container of acrylic and then a vacuum pulled on it. Then pulled out and "cured".

Thanks for all responses.

Eric

[John Keeton]

Eric, this question was asked in another thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=105595) recently, and did't get much response other than what you have stated.

There is a company that produces infused wood here (http://www.woodsure.com/homepage.htm) - no affiliation.

[Eric Brown]

Guess I missed it. Sorry. Still, someone should have something. Oh well, I'll keep looking.

Thanks. Eric

[David Keller NC]

"Does anyone know how this can be done at home without spending a fortune?"

Eric - The short answer is no. And even if you were willing to spend a lot of money, the process is patented (and you can't use it - even for personal purposes. Patent law is different than copyright - there is no "fair use").

The company that makes Blue Spruce's stock, though, will sell you wood that's been treated in this way.

[Jeff Willard]

Check pen turners forums and search for "stabilizing wood". A number of these guys do this on a regular basis. In a nutshell, the wood is permeated with a resin under pressure. Many do this with a home brew set up using a compressor and a HF paint pot. I remember seeing more than one tutorial on how to cobble this together. The maximum size, and the final result, I can't comment on.

[Derek Cohen]

Perhap Tony Z will reply. He sent me a piece for a chisel handle (- I am just looking for the right chisel ..).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark P. Brown]

In the IAP there is a listing fo a product called ultraseal:rboutin@ultrasealant.com (rboutin@ultrasealant.com)
It may be the answer you are looking for.
Mark

[David Gendron]

David K., is the patent on the product or the process? I know that the so called "Diamond wood" is a similar thing, the wood is laminated and saturated with resine... or some thing like that!

[David Keller NC]

"David K., is the patent on the product or the process?"

The process, and the final result (which in this case is wood that's had the acrylic replace the air voids in the cells completely - it's not just a surface treatment). There are, of course, a fair number of potential alternative processes as noted above, but if I understand the company's website correctly, the downside to previous infusion processes is that they don't go very deep, so they're only useful for small stuff (like pen blanks).

[Dominic Greco]

Blue Spruce is offering tools with handles that are " infused with an acrylic". Lee Valley also offer sliding bevels with something similar.

Does anyone know how this can be done at home without spending a fortune?

My guess is that the wood is immersed into a container of acrylic and then a vacuum pulled on it. Then pulled out and "cured".

Thanks for all responses.

Eric

Eric,
To answer your question, and to echo the reply of some others here, Yes you can make a vaccum chamber and "resin" impregnate your own tool blanks. I've tried it and the results were OK. Not great mind you. Just OK. Back when I was turning pens this seemed like a good idea to make premium blanks out of punky wood.

You need a vacuum pump that can pull about 25" Hg. I have one and use it on my lathe as a vacuum chuck. Then you need a vacuum chamber. I used an old pickle jar. The test piece was some spalted silver maple that had the consitency of styrofoam. But the color was amazing! I used Minwax Wood hardener as the "resin" but other have actually used melted plexiglass (in acetone). I adapted the lid of the pickle jar with some fittings and made sure it sealed well. Then I got an old soup can, put a wire handle on it, and then filled it with the maple test piece and the wood hardener. As soon as you pull a vacuum, the test piece started to suck up the hardener. I maintained the vacuum for a couple hours and then allowed the piece to dry. After it dried I found that the hardener only penetrated about 1/8' to 1/4" into the wood. I was told that drilling a hole right up through the center of the test piece (as mist pen blanks have this anyway) would help. I never tried that but reasoned it would work.

After all this mess I shelved the vaccum rig and haven't touched it since. However, your idea of using it to make chisel handle blanks has peaked my interest. You could probably drill a small diameter "stopped" hole up the middle of the blank and that would allow the "resin" to infuse more of the blank.


OR, you could just send your wood to a person that does this for a living and get a professional done resin impregnation!:D

Another thought it to buy stabilized turkey call blanks. Bill Baumbeck at Arizona Silhouette (http://www.arizonasilhouette.com/)sells these as well as other types of stabilized blanks.

[Ron Brese]

I've investigated this process as well and the product that is widely used for this is a Loctite product called Resinol. There are a couple of different versions of this product and the difference is in the way they cure. Some require heat to cure and some do not. From what I understand of this process some woods are more adaptable to this process than others and will take up differing amounts of the acrylic resin.

To simulate the process the pro's use you would need to put the material under vacuum and heat, then introduce the resin while the material is under vacuum, followed by an application of pressure and heat. I'm assuming the pressure holds the material in place after it is drawn into the pores of the wood and the heat cures the material while it is in place. In some experiments that I have performed with different materials I've found that the material will leach back out of the piece once it is removed from the vessel.

This product was developed for sealing metal castings and then developed in other forms to adapt it to more applications.

Several tool makers are experimenting with this material right now and I believe we're going to see more and more if it in applications where impact resistance is a key property. At the Lie-Nielsen Hand tool event in Chicago this past weekend, I saw a chisel made by Czeck Edge Tools with stabilized wood handle pounded completely thru a walnut board with a mallet made from stabilized wood. There were no marks on the chisel handle or the mallet head after this violent experiment.

It is very interesting stuff,

Ron

[Sam Takeuchi]

I just looked at WoodSure website and it says increased hardness, abrasion resistance, durability, dimention stability, and water resistance among other things. If this is as good as advertised, sounds like a perfect stuff for wooden planes. But I guess it's still an expensive process I assume? I certainly don't mind having a Stanley #29 with all that quality.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Well, I'm going to add 2 or 3 cents to the discussion.

Let me begin with a bit of background: I own a manufacturing plant that makes metal parts (such as gears, etc.) out of powder metal. My market is primarily for automotive. Powder metal parts have inherent porosity and in order to zinc plate the parts (think corrosion protection), the porosity needs sealed off. This is where resin impregnation steps in. At my plant, we do not do any resin impregnation, although we do oil impregnation for permanently lubricated bushings/bearings.

For resin impregnation, I have relationships with several nearby plating companies that have the equipment. Because of the same porosity in wood as in my metal parts, my thoughts were the same process would work for both (and it does). The resin used on the wood I sent to Derek was the Locktite product Resinol, although I believe it was the product that did not require heat for curing. Samples of the same wood was sent to Czech Edge, although I don't know if those samples were used for the chisel handles.

The degree of resin going into the wood is dependent upon the vacuum drawn. 25 inches is probably not enough. In the vessels at my plant, we typically draw to 27 to 28 (but this is not home shop equipment). I doubt if the process is patented, as it has been around for ever.

In closing, I haven't had time to do any further experimentation with the resin impregnated pieces I retained for myself! I did them for fun and not to explore another business line, although being in business and making parts for the auto industry makes me think that maybe I should explore some other lines!

If anyone has any questions, please post them and I'll try to get some valid information (not me--I'm a ham and 'egger).

T.Z.

[Dave Jeske]

Blue Spruce is offering tools with handles that are " infused with an acrylic". Lee Valley also offer sliding bevels with something similar.

Does anyone know how this can be done at home without spending a fortune?

My guess is that the wood is immersed into a container of acrylic and then a vacuum pulled on it. Then pulled out and "cured".



Eric, I may have been the first tool company to introduce chisel handles and mallets using the acrylic infusing process. I introduced my bench chisels and mallets at the Woodworking in America show at Berea last year but have been using the material for several years. I do not do the process myself but rather have it done professionally. the company has been working on the specific process for many years and the results speak for themselves. You may be able to get satisfactory results using a vacuum chamber or better yet, an autoclave setup. One key is to use a very low viscosity resin. high temperatures generally decrease a resin's viscosity. If you are the type that loves experimentation then it could be a fun journey.
Good luck.
Dave Jeske
Blue Spruce Toolworks

[george wilson]

When I was a teenager,I recall a resin impregnated wood called "Atomic Wood." It was in an article by Popular Mechanics magazine IIRC,and the resin was cured by exposure to radiation. They sold 2 pieces of wood as a kit to make a gavel out of. It wasn't very cheap,either. This must have been around 1957. I assume(?) there was no radiation in the wood?

P.S. i just googled Atomic wood resin impregnated,and got some results regarding the process.

[Tony Zaffuto]

George,

Interesting that you brought up "Atomic Wood". Up here, in the hinterlands of PA, there was a company that made hardwood flooring using this process. Off the top of my head, can't remember the name, but it was located about 35 miles north of where I live, in the Quehenna Wild Area and less than ten miles from our hunting camp.

Name of the company was "PermaGrain Products", and was located in a very remote area that was used by the AEC for atomic testing (WWII era). Later users of the reactor were Curtis Wright and then Piper Aircraft. PermaGrain came into the picture around 1977 or so and was licensed by the government to use a radiation process in their production procedures. In the era, they would infuse hardwood with an acrylic resin and then use radiation to cure the product. The process was subsequently changed and the reactor was deactivated, but I'm unsure if it was ever removed.

PermaGrain is still in business, although at different locations and, as I said, with a different method of infusing acrylic into wood. Interesting web searches would be "Quehenna Wild Area", with additions of nuclear reactor, PermaGrain, etc. Interesting period, too, in our country's history, when research was conducted without the strings of today (although, the upside is we are probably safer in not having fairly easily accessable reactors all over the country). In closing, I vaguely remember Penn State University also having something to do with the management of the site for a short period of time.

Again, as I previously said, the resin impregnation process has been around for quite a few years and in many different forms.

T.Z.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Another variation was used for years by the Norwegians on cross country skiis when they were still made out of wood. They used "Lignostone" which was a European beech impregnated with a phenolic resin and then compressed in a heated platten press. It was used as edge strips on the soles of the better grades of skiis to slow down or prevent rounding of the edges. Bonna, and Norse Skiiproduktor both used it.

[Bill Houghton]

I just looked at WoodSure website and it says increased hardness, abrasion resistance, durability, dimention stability, and water resistance among other things. If this is as good as advertised, sounds like a perfect stuff for wooden planes. But I guess it's still an expensive process I assume? I certainly don't mind having a Stanley #29 with all that quality.

You could, of course, buy a Stanley No. 6 (or 606, if you wanted to get fancy), and get most of those qualities...

[Steven J Durkee]

I have used WoodSure in the past, and it does everything they say it will. the wood is VERY stable, it penenetartes all the way thur the wood ( wood being 2" thick or thiner.) It ia expensive tho, but great results.
Im also interested in doing it at home, as its very costly. I'd like to have as much imput as i can get, all help would be greatly appreciated



I just looked at WoodSure website and it says increased hardness, abrasion resistance, durability, dimention stability, and water resistance among other things. If this is as good as advertised, sounds like a perfect stuff for wooden planes. But I guess it's still an expensive process I assume? I certainly don't mind having a Stanley #29 with all that quality.

[Andrew Kertesz]

Steven,

This original thread is several years old. Go to the IAP (Penturners) website and search there. You can find tutorials and some that sell the components to do this under a vacuum.

[Dan Hintz]

Note to others: This thread is over 4 years old... please keep that in mind when replying to old posts.

Steven,

It's a pretty simple process these days with all of the equipment available today. A "vacuum chamber" (often a restaurant serving container with a thick acrylic lid routed to shape) can be had from eBay for <$100, Craigslist and eBay for a cheap vacuum pump, and there are several sources for appropriate resins... Cactus Juice from Curtis Seebeck (cheaper in smaller quantities), Resinol 90C from Loctite/Henkel (where I purchase mine from), etc.

Pour resin into a container (not directly in the chamber itself, but a separate bowl inside the chamber) with the wood, apply vacuum and let it sit for an hour or two to let the resin get sucked in, then place on aluminum foil in the oven and bake at low heat for 20 minutes or so. Nothing complicated, but the equipment and supplies can get pricey for the initial layout. I purchased a high-end Gast pump because I use it for my lathe, vacuum-infusing, and other things... $650, give or take, but it pulls a near-perfect vacuum at a high CFM (useful on the lathe for bowls that are highly porous). You could get away with a much lower CFM if all you're doing is infusing. A small 16 oz container will be around $20, or you can order it in 4-gallon jugs at a time (like me) for around $300.

[Christopher Collins]

Drawing a vacuum really just pulls the air out of the wood, right? It doesn't pull resin into the wood. As the pressure drops, the air in the wood expands and some of it is forced out and is visible as bubbles. But as long as the pressure is kept low, the resin still can't get into the wood because there is still some remaining low pressure air filling the wood pores. The key step seems like it would be to release the vacuum slowly while the wood is still submerged. Then the air remaining in the wood will shrink and pull the resin in with it, since every pore contains a little bit of vacuum that pulls the resin in. The normal, ambient air pressure will be higher than the low pressure within the wood (because we sucked most of the air out), but since it's submerged, those pores can only re-fill themselves with resin.

So it seems that the best way to do this would be to submerge the wood, draw a vacuum, wait for the air bubbles to be pulled out of the pores, and then release the vacuum while the object is still submerged, which would draw the resin into the pores. Then you can remove the object and let it cure.

[Dan Hintz]

So it seems that the best way to do this would be to submerge the wood, draw a vacuum, wait for the air bubbles to be pulled out of the pores, and then release the vacuum while the object is still submerged, which would draw the resin into the pores.

Yep, that's it in a nutshell. No need to release the vacuum slowly, however, as long as the blank remains submerged the entire time, just give it a few minutes to pull in as much resin as possible. You could even do multiple vacuum stages to make sure the resin makes it to the core, though I would only consider that for thick blanks.

[David Weaver]

How deep do you guys think the resin goes? I turned a piece of resin impregnated wood once and ended up turning off all of the infused part.

[Tony Zaffuto]

In my manufacturing business (fabricating parts from powdered metal) it is customary to zinc plate parts. Because of the inherent porosity of parts of this nature, said porosity needs sealed off and to do so, the parts are impregnated (infused) with a variety of materials, with equipment virtually identical, to the process used to "infuse" wood (I didn't search this thread, but I would bet I have some early posts in it).

Several years ago, I experimented with impregnating wood, with the same material we use for metal, with initial results looking promising. I sent out samples of the wood to a number of other galoots, but we all seemed to stroll away from further experimentation. As far as Dan's comments go, from experience, once the material cures, you will not be able to impregnate/infuse more material, as the exterior pores have been sealed off. As far as David's comments, the results I obtained were virtually identical, with the infusion remaining/occurring towards the outer surface.

I'm always up for further experimentation and if anyone wishes to pursue the same, let's continue this discussion on the open forum as a means of brainstorming.

[David Weaver]

Tony, our results were probably similar because the piece of wood that I turned was a piece of infused bubinga that you sent me :)

It did make a nice handle for a big mortise chisel, but unfortunately, it's the same as any other bubinga handle would've been. Maybe part of the issue was the wood was too dense.

[Dan Hintz]

How deep do you guys think the resin goes? I turned a piece of resin impregnated wood once and ended up turning off all of the infused part.
If the wood is sufficiently porous to have air in the core, it will be sufficiently porous enough to have resin in there as a replacement when you're finished. In years past people have tried wood hardeners like Minwax, and those are only a surface treatment. Don't compare wood treated in such a manner as a vacuum-infused piece.


As far as Dan's comments go, from experience, once the material cures, you will not be able to impregnate/infuse more material, as the exterior pores have been sealed off.
Since the resin's we're discussing here are heat-activated, you can run them through the vacuum process multiple times until you are satisfied. Some swear by pressure pots in addition to the vacuum chambers, but I see no added benefit.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I couldn't remember who all I sent samples to, but it may be worth exploring again, this time paying more attention to more porous woods. What do you guys think? Anyone up for it? If so, we need to name the wood selection guru. I'll take care of getting the wood infused the way I did before (I believe the resins are also heat activated - but the [problem with multiple infusions may be drawing the acrylic out of earlier cycles).

Anyhow, we may have a project!

[David Weaver]

Soft maple is probably a good target. Its evident that it's already in use with infused woods. It doesn't have a nasty looking open pore surface, but close examination of it makes it pretty clear that there is somewhere for the "stuff" to filter through.

[Allen Marlow]

You are good people, Mr. Jeske. Thank you.
~allen

[Frederick Skelly]

456393

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[Mike Henderson]

"Does anyone know how this can be done at home without spending a fortune?"

Eric - The short answer is no. And even if you were willing to spend a lot of money, the process is patented (and you can't use it - even for personal purposes. Patent law is different than copyright - there is no "fair use").

One slight exception to this is that a patented technique can be used in research. While using a patent for personal use is not legal in the US, it's extremely unlikely that a patent holder would learn of that use, or would take action against you because of the cost of any legal action.

Mike

[Halgeir Wold]

I just found this thread, as I'm, pondering on moving into knife making... I fail to see the difference between "stabilizing" and "infusing" wood, but the process surely works better on porous woods than on hardwoods. The process is widely used by knife makers for handles...
There's plenty examples on Youtube, both for equipment and process..... also using various resins and heat processing.
While I don't know much about US patent law, I do find it strange that this process can be patented according to european patent law.... It is a common and widely used process, no matter what you call it...

[Jim Koepke]

While I don't know much about US patent law, I do find it strange that this process can be patented according to european patent law.... It is a common and widely used process, no matter what you call it...

Receiving a patent for a design or process is not terribly difficult. Defending and upholding a patent may be impossible when challenged.

One of my employers was challenged by a patent holder. The patent lawsuit was ruled invalid by the court when my employer proved he was using the product design before the patent was granted.

Many patents have been ruled invalid when scrutinized in court.

jtk