How to lose less material when ripping

[david kramer]

I have a Grizzly 555x band saw, with riser, on which I have a 3/4" 3 tpi Timberwolf blade (from Suffolk) which cuts through 8"+ stock with ease. The saw has a resaw fence, which is adjusted to track the blade. I like the saw and blade, but when I resaw, I lose a lot of material. By the time I get done resurfacing both faces of the wood on a planer or drum sander, I've probably lost at least 1/8" of material. This is a waste, and also messes up the bookmatch effect a bit, because there's a lot of missing material between the faces.

I've seen posts here where people claim that they can take the boards off the band saw and with a light sanding they're ready for finishing. That's very different from my experience. I'm wondering what I could do to land up with a more finished product. I'm thinking of changing to a 1/2" Iturra bimetal blade, or maybe it's my technique? Any suggestions?

Thx
David

[Steve Rozmiarek]

David, I'm one of those guys you referenced. I use a 1" Lenox Trimaster carbide tipped blade, 2/3 tpi. I run this blade in a 36" Oliver, circa really old, with babbit bearings and I'd guess 50 year old (at least) tires. This is a 5hp saw.

I think the reason that this saw cuts so well is in the tuneup. I also think you could do it with any quality saw that is built with a design that won't flex or vibrate. My saw has superb guides, a Tannewitz/Oliver mix, that I put together with parts I scrounged. I checked the tires out with a dial indicator to see if they needed work when I got the Trimaster, but the runout on the top wheel measured .0005", and the bottom was less, so I kept them...

The theory behind my setup is to eliminate vibration. I like the massive frame of the saw to absorb most anything, but dull blades, bad guides, lack of horsepower, knots, and lots of other things can still effect the cut. Do a good tuneup, buy a great blade, and don't be afraid to experiment! One note though, carbide blades are wider kerf than the usual bimetal, but you should get less cleanup loss.

[jim gossage]

I agree with Steve. The set up is very important. I would recommend the recently published Bandsaw Book by Mark Duginske. It has a great chapter on all aspects of saw setup and tuning, and a chapter on blade selection. I use a 1-1/4" laguna Resaw King blade and am usually able to cut 7-9 pieces of 1/16" veneer out of a 4/4 board. The kerf on this blade is 0.040" and there is no offset to the teeth. It leave a very smooth cut that does not need to be dressed up for face gluing, but I usually will give new registering surface a quick pass on the jointer before cutting my next piece of veneer.

[Myk Rian]

Steve and Jim;
That's great that you can run 1"+ blades, but that Grizzly can only handle up to 3/4". There is no way that saw will stack up to what you use, especially a 36" saw. He needs advice on the tool he has.
David;
The band saw book will help, but I don't think you're going to get planer smooth cuts anyhow.

[Paul Ryan]

David,

I use the baby brother of the saw you have with the exact same blade. When I resaw, the boards usually need only one pass over the jointer to get smooth. The jointer is set to 1/32 some time it takes 2 passes, but not very often. I think it just comes down to tune up again. My blade is set very low on tension. The spring is just a guide but when I have the 3/4 blade in is set down in the 1/8 blade range. The low tension alows the blade to cut just fine and I have zero blade drift. I suggest either but the book, or play with your adjustments.

Check out this web site.

http://www.americanfurnituredsgn.com/Band%20Saw%20Tune-up%20Dec%2003.htm

[John Thompson]

I don't believe you can get a finished side smooth enough with any BS blade. A glue side yes.. as I do on my SC 18" and probably many more do on a host of various saws. You can joint after a re-saw pass and have a finish side that requires only finish sanding with a glue side that requires no sanding but.. by jointing you are still losing stock which is what the complaint was.

Obviously not nearly as much as you said you are taking 1/8" which is a chunk of terrain. You can take less when re-sawing if... you have a wide-belt or drum sander but.. not everyone has one or probably needs one unless you do a lot of re-saw for veneer so.. the best method without a large drum or wide-belt is the jointer pass (most have one) as has already been mentioned with a very light pass.

Good luck...

Sarge..

[glenn bradley]

I joint a face and an edge. I use the planer to get parallel sides. I resaw and then use the out flat faces as a reference surface to plane the BS marks off and repeat if I want thinner stock. This wastes the minimum of stock for me. Although I don't keep track of how much I plane off to get rid of the BS marks, a 32nd is probably about right. A reduced feed rate may help you as well.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steve and Jim;
That's great that you can run 1"+ blades, but that Grizzly can only handle up to 3/4". There is no way that saw will stack up to what you use, especially a 36" saw. He needs advice on the tool he has.
David;
The band saw book will help, but I don't think you're going to get planer smooth cuts anyhow.

Myk, I specifically noted my saw for a reason. I think that the saws mass and design is one of the reasons that it cuts the way that it does. I honestly don't keep up with the myriad of Griz tool #'s floating around here (wish they where a more descriptive device), but I was assuming that a 555x was a 14" cast iron saw. I just checked, and I was right apparently. My saw weighs 2000#, while the Griz 555x weighs maybe 300#? That difference is significant, and David asked how do I, and others getting the same results get the better cut quality. Thats my way to get those cuts.

I see that the 555x has cast aluminum wheels. Having never compared an aluminum wheel saw to a heavier wheel machine, I'd think that the loss of mass may not help in vibration control? The limitation to a narrower blade will hurt a little too, but a well tuned machine running a 3/4" blade will do a good job. The same tuneup issues that I mentioned before apply too all bandsaws as well, not just my 36" monster.

All tools have limitations, and are manufactured to acheive a specific level of quality and price. 14" Delta clone bandsaws show these limitations well. It is pretty easy to reach their stock limitations. After that, we start to add aftermarket stuff to hotrod them. Maybe Carter guides, new tires, better bearings, heavier springs, maybe even more power. A pricier class of saw, maybe the MiniMax line, starts where a souped up Delta clone leaves off. Is it possible to get fantastic cuts from a 555x? Sure, but it will take more work to get there, and probably more money, and you will always be limited to some extent by the basic design of the machine.

I guess the original question illustrates a constant dilema in woodworking, how much accuracy/speed/capacity do I want to buy?

[Andrew Joiner]

Hi Steve,
Does your Tannewitz/Oliver mix of guides have blocks or bearing on the side of the blade?
It's amazing that your 50 year old tires are working so nice. I've heard people say that clean, perfect tires are the key to fine resawing.

David,
Highland claims the Woodslicer will work well on a 14" saw, and go straight to glue-up or 100 grit sanding. They also claim Slicers will outlast other blades easily three times over, which makes them economically competitive with any 1/2" blade on the market.

Sounds to good to be true!

Check out the return policy and return it if it's not true. From what I here they cut good but don't last long.
---------------------------------------
This is from Highland :

Resawn surfaces are extraordinarily smooth, with few torn or broken fibers and nearly invisible tooth marks. Testing the blades here at the store, we've produced 9" wide veneers no thicker than 1/32", clean enough for glue-up and ready to begin sanding at 100 grit. We've never seen a resawing blade cut this smoothly, and we're willing to bet you haven't either.

HARDER
Wood Slicer teeth are phenominally hard, with a Rockwell no. of Rc65-67, as hard as the edge of a fine Japanese chisel. After sharpening and setting, Slicers are sent through a high-speed, ultra-high voltage precision impulse hardening system which treats the face and cutting edges of each tooth without allowing hardening to extend into the gullet, which would create a potential source of fatigue failure. As a result, Slicers will outlast other blades easily three times over, which makes them economically competitive with any 1/2" blade on the market.

THINNER
High strength blades let us specify band thickness of just .022", 12% thinner than usual, without sacrificing the stiffness and beam strength required for clean, accurate resawing. Set angle is absolutely minimal, and total kerf width is barely 1/32". (Due to the blades' minimal set the WoodSlicer® is not recommended for cutting green wood)This means you waste about half as much wood as with a regular blade, and you demand half as much work from your saw, which gives you less back pressure, faster feed rates, and lower impact on thrust bearings and lateral guides. Slicers' rear edges are rounded and polished, extending the life of your thrust bearings and eliminating a potential source of fatigue cracks. Precise setting, polishing and rounding the back not only make for smoother cuts; they also nearly eliminate blade lead, making it easier and faster to set up your fence for straight, accurate resawing in any material thickness.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...a high-speed, ultra-high voltage precision impulse hardening system..."

Woah! I'd like to try that....

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Hi Steve,
Does your Tannewitz/Oliver mix of guides have blocks or bearing on the side of the blade?
It's amazing that your 50 year old tires are working so nice. I've heard people say that clean, perfect tires are the key to fine resawing.




Andrew, the guides are the ones with four blocks, two one each side of the blade. There is one big thrust bearing, about 3" in diameter. I set the guide blocks really close to the blade. I was shocked to have the tires measure that well too. Eagle will redo Oliver tires, and I was planing on sending them in, but thought I'd measure first. I just assumed that they needed redone when I got the saw. I'm not sure of their age either, I was just speculating that they where 50 at least, but they are certainly not anything close to a recent set. They don't look nasty, but there are some scratches on one edge that I think came from a broken blade. The blade runs behind this though, so it isn't a problem I guess.

[Andrew Joiner]

Steve,
Are the blocks metal, wood or phenolic?

[Tri Hoang]

I think it's either the set up (guides, tension, fence) or the technique. When you finished the cut, is it not straight or just not very smooth? Slowing down your feed rate and keeping it steady may help.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steve,
Are the blocks metal, wood or phenolic?

The blocks are metal on mine. I'm looking for a photo for you, I know I took one, but I'll be danged if I can find it on this old clunker of a computer. Might have to take a new one...
http://www.owwm.com/photoindex/images/8431-E.jpg

Andrew, this saw has the same guides that I have. It is Arthur Fueges machine, as found on OWWM.com. Hope he dosen't mind me swiping the photo...

[Phil Thien]

I use a Blade Runner from Iturra (same as WoodSlicer, made from Atlanta Sharptech stock) on a tiny 10" Delta ShopMaster and routinely resaw 5-6" (and even 7" on occasion) material and get incredibly smooth cuts. One or two passes through the drum sander is all it takes for perfectly smooth surfaces.

I tried the Timberwolf blades but the Blade Runner cuts faster, longer, and smoother. The Timberwolf was good, the Blade Runner is great.

[david kramer]

Thanks everyone. I'll check my setup and I'll try a new blade.

[Andrew Joiner]

I use a Blade Runner from Iturra (same as WoodSlicer, made from Atlanta Sharptech stock) on a tiny 10" Delta ShopMaster and routinely resaw 5-6" (and even 7" on occasion) material and get incredibly smooth cuts. One or two passes through the drum sander is all it takes for perfectly smooth surfaces.

I tried the Timberwolf blades but the Blade Runner cuts faster, longer, and smoother. The Timberwolf was good, the Blade Runner is great.

Wow,
Phil you say the Blade Runner lasts longer than a Timberwolf ? Most people say they dull quickly. What are you cutting, any tropical hardwood?