door glue up open time

[Tom Adger]

I am making an exterior entrance door for my shop. It has a 2x4/2x6 frame, and the exterior will be T&G 1/6's. The exterior sheet will be glued and screwed to the frame. I will be using 2002 GF glue from Lee Valley, which advertises 15-20 minute open time. I have used it before and like it, but the advertised open time is a little optimistic, especially here is FL, with 80+ temps. I will be putting a lot of wood screws in, and I am worried about the open time.

Any suggestions about extending the open time? First, I will close all doors and windows to stop the breeze flow thru. How about wetting with a water spray bottle after spreading it on? Or, adding some water to the glue prior to application? I don't care about added cure time, but I do care about loss of strength.

[Frank Drew]

Tom,

I'd be concerned with the effects of wood movement if you firmly glue and screw the outer paneling to the frame; you've got let's say 30 whatever inches of potential movement that's got to go somewhere.

But in general, I like Weldwood's Plastic Resin Glue for exterior applications (not actually wet, of course), and that's got a fairly long open time.

[Tony Bilello]

[QUOTE=Frank Drew;1123432]Tom,
I'd be concerned with the effects of wood movement if you firmly glue and screw the outer paneling to the frame; you've got let's say 30 whatever inches of potential movement that's got to go somewhere.....
QUOTE]

In addition to what Frank said, I would expect some serious warping unless you get the best grade of pine available and finish both sides.

[Tom Adger]

Lets please get past the wood movement issue and go back to the original question. I racked and stickered all wood involved for 4 months. then jointed and planed all pieces before gluing up, then put cement blocks on everything for a number of days. I expect a little warping, but I can deal with that with the placement of the door stops. Back to the glue open time question?

[David DeCristoforo]

OK. Forget wood movement for the moment. I would not use any PVA glue for this. I would get a tube of PL400 construction adhesive.

[Tony Bilello]

OK. Forget wood movement for the moment. I would not use any PVA glue for this. I would get a tube PL PL400 construction adhesive.

David, lets please get passed the construction adhesive and get back to the original question.....extending the open time for 2002 GF glue from Lee Valley.

[David DeCristoforo]

"David, lets please get passed the construction adhesive and get back to the original question.....extending the open time for 2002 GF glue ..."

Read Larry Edgerton's answer to this question:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?referrerid=5960&t=110845

That might work here.....

[Tony Bilello]

"David, lets please get passed the construction adhesive and get back to the original question.....extending the open time for 2002 GF glue ..."

Read Larry Edgerton's answer to this question:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?referrerid=5960&t=110845

That might work here.....

David, you always come up with the correct answer, LMAO.

[Peter Scoma]

Tom, I'm not sure I understand why you are so opposed to experienced posters addressing the issue of wood movement as it carries with it serious implications. It sounds like you dimensioned your materials very well but none of those measures will keep 30in of solid wood paneling from expanding and tearing apart your doors.

Re: the glue. You put alot of time into your doors, heed franks advice of using plastic resin glue.

PS

[John Keeton]

Peter, in Ft. Pierce, the temperature and humidity are constant, 24/7/365. No issue on wood movement.

I agree with David on the PL400 on this one, but would be afraid his answer on the original question would leave an undesirable "patina."

[Tom Adger]

Thanks for all your replys. I think I will go with Frank's and Peter's suggest about the Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue. I went onto Dap's website, and the tech bulletin said it had a pot life of 2.5 hrs at 80 degrees, which is more than enough.

If my door turns into a pretzel I will be sure and let all of you know. If you are wondering why I am making a door, the "solid core" exterior doors sold at the BORG are a piece of junk. Also, try to find a plain metal or fiberglass exterior door for a reasonable price.

[Peter Scoma]

If you are wondering why I am making a door, the "solid core" exterior doors sold at the BORG are a piece of junk. Also, try to find a plain metal or fiberglass exterior door for a reasonable price.

I'm with you on that Tom. I just made and installed 2, 4x8 carriage doors to close off my 1/2 car garage workshop. As you said what is commercially available is either junk or way to expensive (for me neways). Pricing for custom doors was in the thousands. Let us know when you have them swinging.

Peter

[Peter Quinn]

I would be more concerned with the pot life of the door than the pot life of the glue. You could glue that frame to that panel in less than 5 minutes, get enough screws in it to do the basic clamping and finish up at your leisure, use tite bond type III even, plenty of open time. That sir is simply not a complicated glue up you have there. Its also not a very good design.

We have made ladder frame doors with 1/2" T&G skins meant to look like board and batten doors, skinned both sides, only the center is glued solid, the rest of the frame is secured with silicone adhesive so the skins can float a bit. Still not a great design, but seems to last a bit better.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I would be more concerned with the pot life of the door than the pot life of the glue."

http://www.daviddecristoforo.com/Misc/rofl.gif

[Frank Drew]

To accomodate (potential) movement with tongue and groove panelling, I'd probably use screws only on one side of each board, say the groove side, a bit in from the edge, and not fit the joining boards very tightly. The edge of the boards with the tongues could float sideways in and ouit if necessary but would be restrained from lifting by being captured in the grooves.

I'd glue up the frame itself with exterior glue, but not necessarily the t&g boards; I think the screws would hold them well enough, and not invite problems.

Remember to paint or otherwise finish the end grain before hanging the door, while you can still get at it.