Which cut first, the cope or the stick?

[David Rose]

Most writers say to normally cut the sticking cut first then the cope. Bill Hylton and a couple of other reputable folks say that. As I've been playing around trying to get one good set of rail/stile bits out of three sets of pieces :o , I've noticed that all the tearout has occured on the coping cut and the sticking cut cleans it up. This was all on walnut and maple, so that may have some effect.

The mag writers say to use a backer that is flat for the appropriate places, then to cut a coping cut scrap to fit into the stile that is being coped on the end to back it up. If I am right, which is not likely :rolleyes: , then that coped scrap backer is unneeded.

All coping cuts could be done with a flat backer combo push block if the coping is done first and the sticking cleans up the tearout. What am I missing? I suspect that it is something obvious, but it's been some time since I used a profile around raised panels.

David

[Jim Becker]

I've seen it done both ways, David. So far, I've done the coping second, but the idea of using simple flat backers is pretty compelling...and less work switching them out for opposite ends if the long cuts are made first. Maybe I'll try that next time!

[Steve Clardy]

You can do it either way David. Usually the big boys do the stick, cut to lenght, then the cope. I do the cope first, with a backer. Holler and I'll post some pics of me self made cope back er upper. Steve

[David Rose]

Jim, I guess I just need to play around with it some more to find out.

Steve, from the pro's perspective what is the advantage (speed someway I'm sure) of sticking first then trimming?

Let's see if your Missouri ingenuity can beat the Arkie stuff. Come to think of it, I think mine was stolen from most of the articles I've read. :D It's the Use and Trim model. Just a whack on the miter saw after changing profiles and you have a square pusher with a fresh backer. It needs trimming obviously and about time for replacement. It's a good double check for the stile end being square too. If any gap shows, something is wrong.

David


You can do it either way David. Usually the big boys do the stick, cut to lenght, then the cope. I do the cope first, with a backer. Holler and I'll post some pics of me self made cope back er upper. Steve

[Steve Jenkins]

David, the guys making a lot of doors cut the sticking first because they can run full length (8-10'or longer) pieces thru the shaper with a feeder then cut them to length for the rails and stiles and cope after. Having a seperate shaper set up with the cope cutter and a coped backer also helps speed things up. Personnally I do the cope cut first for the same reason as you, I can use a flat backer. If you are doing really small and/or narrow doors it's easier to do the stick cut first because it's a bit more trouble to run very short pieces for the stick cut. Steve

[Steve Clardy]

You are on the right track David. Looks good. Mount you a handle on that backer, makes it a lot easier than a seperate push handle.

[Steve Jenkins]

David do my eyes deceive me or is that push pad screwed to the backer? That's what I do with them, they make great handles that way and no worries about the pad slipping. Steve

[David Rose]

Yeah, Steve(s), the push pad is one of several inherited old pushers with a couple of sheet rock screws in it. :D

David

[Curt Harms]

Hi All
I've made a total of maybe a dozen rail & style doors so my thoughts are worth exactly what they cost ;) . I thought I'd seen or heard of people coping stock before ripping the rails from it. That would seem to help the tear-out on exit situation. I've also CAREFULLY climb routed the back of the rail piece just a tiny bit, an 1/8" or so. That seems to help the tear-out and using a coping sled with a clamp doesn't seem too high-risk. Have I just been lucky?

Curt

[Clint deal]

hey Curt, that's pretty much what I do. I'm building 20 some raised panel doors for my parents new house right now. i try and pick the lumber that I can get the most coped pieces out of. Then rip them out after i clean up both sides on the tablesaw. Works for my.

David, I like that push block. Looks like it'll work pretty good and keep them fingers clear. i just made a new one to use on my shaper. I glued some 80 grit to the bottom to keep traction.
Clint

[David Rose]

Curt, climb cutting is perfectly acceptable and safe with the right tools and if you are comfortable doing it. I will do it sometimes if needed when I've got enough "mass" to the piece and carriage.

David

[Steve Clardy]

I use an old miter gauge and made a sled for the cope cut. Has backer board and toggle clamp attached. To the right of it there is a starting block that lines up with the cutter bearing. I use the toggle clamp for the handle.
Dual routers sure make it more functional. No changing of bits, aligning them every time.

[David Rose]

Steve, there are some neat ideas there. So when you cut the cope you are using only the bearing once started?

Dual routers for something like this makes me drool. :D

David


I use an old miter gauge and made a sled for the cope cut. Has backer board and toggle clamp attached. To the right of it there is a starting block that lines up with the cutter bearing. I use the toggle clamp for the handle.
Dual routers sure make it more functional. No changing of bits, aligning them every time.

[Steve Clardy]

Yes. Brb with a closer pic.

Look close at the walnut sled. The walnut is the backer piece. The pine block screwed to the table is the stop point for the rail. Then just slide it toward the bit. The bearing acts as the guide fence.:)
Steve

[David Rose]

Steve, I've never seen that done. Is that an original idea? I like it! :) Some of my problems have arisen because of using a fence around the bit *and* the bearing. This would eliminate that.

David


Yes. Brb with a closer pic.

Look close at the walnut sled. The walnut is the backer piece. The pine block screwed to the table is the stop point for the rail. Then just slide it toward the bit. The bearing acts as the guide fence.:)
Steve

[Steve Clardy]

Yep. It's all mine. Took lots of redoing to get it to work, several different variations. Works for me. This winter I'm going to redo the whole shebang again. I'll have a cabinet set up with three routers, just for doors. Cope, stick, and a flush cut cleanup bit for the top arched rails. I do my panels on a 3hp shaper. Never did the panels with a router, just didn't seem beefy enough to me.

[David Rose]

I do everything on the router table, but time is not an issue for my hobby use and I really don't have space for a shaper if it fit into the budget. :o I'm surprised that you don't do it all on a shaper(s). That could get expensive and space consuming though with a shaper for each of several jobs.

If you make any changes (besides just adding the router) to your router table setup, I'd like to see them when you rework the thing.

David


Yep. It's all mine. Took lots of redoing to get it to work, several different variations. Works for me. This winter I'm going to redo the whole shebang again. I'll have a cabinet set up with three routers, just for doors. Cope, stick, and a flush cut cleanup bit for the top arched rails. I do my panels on a 3hp shaper. Never did the panels with a router, just didn't seem beefy enough to me.