Grizzly Inc now on the top of my bad company list!!

[Scott Christian]

I placed my order for a new Grizzly G0691 this week. Received an email today saying that it is on back order till, get this, AUGUST 30th!!!!!! In this day and age they couldn't have put that information on their web page? Don't tell me I can order one, take my money and then tell me you don't have one to ship. Let me know BEFORE I order that there is a 4 month delay. To me, that is just crappy customer service! Right now I have half a mind to cancel my order and go someplace else! Should have bought that used Powermatic 66 after all. I am not a happy camper!!!:mad:

[John Keeton]

Scott, there could be several possibilities here.
Perhaps there was actually more than one order that came in that day, and you weren't first?
Maybe they had an unavoidable supply issue - those things do happen.
Perhaps their inventory system had a glitch - those things happen as well.

I don't know what the answer is, but certainly cancelling the order is an option for you. Or, perhaps Grizzly would upgrade you to a different machine at a better price. Have you spoken with customer service?

Not sure Sawmill Creek should be the first avenue of attack here, but each to their own.

[Scott Christian]

Not really attacking...just venting my frustrations with online vendors. With everything computerized, or should be if you are running an online order site, you should at a minimum display the availablility of the products you are selling. Or as the order is processed it should verify stock on hand. It just leaves a bad taste with me.

[Robert Strebler]

I thought they weren't supposed to charge your card until it shipped?

Anyway, I'm sure they'll refund your money if you decide to cancel. I'm also sure they didn't mean to offend, trick, or rip you off in any way. Their customer service has always been top notch and I'd bet a call to their customer service department will get you a refund right away.

[Jason Beam]

Wow ... that's all it took to tick you off?

What if it had been WMH? Or General? Or Delta? Or any number of manufacturers that sometimes have delays.

I'm glad I'm not in business.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Scott, I'd be mad about that too. You spend all that wasted time giving them all your info. and you get excited about getting the product and then the big let down. They should know their inventory before they take your money. Maybe they're hiding the fact they don't have the product just to get the order but I hope not. That would be really underhanded and I expect more than that from Grizzly.

[Jim Rimmer]

I think some of you are little hard on Scott. I would be ticked, too, for a 4 month delay. Leadtimes are one thing, but this is ridiculous. Unless someone came in and bought their entire inventory in one day they should have known they couldn't deliver in a reasonable amount of time.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Scott, I'd be mad about that too. You spend all that wasted time giving them all your info. and you get excited about getting the product and then the big let down. They should know their inventory before they take your money. Maybe they're hiding the fact they don't have the product just to get the order but I hope not. That would be really underhanded and I expect more than that from Grizzly.

Add my +1 to the list.

Bruce

[Dennis McGarry]

I have implemented many online order processing systems and integrated inventory control.

Most all of the ones I have worked with have it setup that if real time inventory is below a set level, usually based on sales trends for that period, the system will automatically back order an item and Not allow sales of it, untill the next restock is due.

Systems that are setup not to is just bad business and configuration.

[Caleb Larru]

I ordered my G0651 last Saturday and it was delivered yesterday.

I ordered a steel city air filtration the first of april and they told me it would ship out in a week. A week went by and nothing. I call them back and they tell me it will be the 1st of may. Now they tell me it will be after mid June.

I understand the frustration. However I would use this to my advantage and see if I could get the G0651 at a better price. They have them in stock.

[glenn bradley]

I hear Scott's frustration. He has probably been working through this important decision for quite awhile if he's like the rest of us. Now he finds that his chosen tool is delayed, I can see that as a disappointment.

I don't know that I would go bear hunting over a supply problem. I think you've gotten to vent a bit and that should help you move forward with your decision. I would call Grizzly and see what options you have. You might end up with an acceptable situation. If they can't make you happy, I assume you had a second choice(?).

[glenn bradley]

I ordered a steel city air filtration the first of april and they told me it would ship out in a week. A week went by and nothing. I call them back and they tell me it will be the 1st of may. Now they tell me it will be after mid June.

I prefer the painful truth right out of the gate, don't you?

[Jim O'Dell]

I'd be disappointed. Especially since I want one so badly. Maybe a lot of others wanted one too, and with the sale price, a bunch of them bought and depleted their supply. It is new, so maybe there aren't that many of them either. I don't know, but call Grizzly. History shows that they take care of their customers. Have them check the other warehouses. Maybe their system only pulls immediately from the nearest warehouse for shipping expense reasons. Maybe suggest that they implement something into their website that shows during the order process, or preferably on the order screen, if it is available. Good luck and let us know the outcome. Jim.

[Jeff Duncan]

Hmmm....yup you should have bought the used 66;)
JeffD

[Eric Gustafson]

I would be disappointed, too. :( You finally get the scratch together, and have to wait 4 months! :eek: I will bet they have been selling that model like hotcakes and cannot keep up with the demand.

When I ordered my Grizzly stuff I did it on the phone and the sales person verified inventory. I got a BS and TS. The table saw was back ordered a month, but came in a little earlier. :)

[John Shuk]

Frustration, Ok I get that. Posting that they are on the worst company list I think that is quite a bit over the top.

[Chris Tsutsui]

Haha, 4 months is enough time for them to start mining for the iron ore to go into this table saw... :p

Perhaps Grizzly is giving themselves enough time to manufacture a freight boat's worth of machines in China. This way they can ship bulk to save on the overseas distribution to their warehouses.

If that's the case, maybe August 30th will be around the time when the warehouses will be fully stocked. Hopefully we'll see a sale on older item versions or perhaps some type of promotion on the new items...

[joe milana]

I pay a few more bucks and support my local vendors whenever possible. It's nice being on a first name basis when I walk in the door and now they bend over backwards to support me, they know how picky I am, and will never offer me anything without warning me of any negative feedback. They have even stayed open late before, knowing that I am on the way to purchase something.

[Eric DeSilva]

I think some of you are little hard on Scott.

I saw a lot of comments understanding his frustration, but didn't see anyone taking him to task. I find that odd, so I'll be a little hard on Scott.

-- If I understand right, Scott placed an order and they promptly (within days) told him it was backordered. He did not wait months and then get told they didn't have it--it was almost immediate.

-- Scott did not indicate his card has been charged, contrary to what some people seem to be implying. As far as I know, he isn't out any cash and hasn't paid anything.

-- Scott has the option to walk away and buy somewhere else, which he has not elected to do, notwithstanding saying Grizzly has the worst customer service.

-- Scott, as far as I know, hasn't even called them to find out if there are other options.

So, if I get this right, he has trashed a company in a public forum for--in effect--not updating their website fast enough with respect to backordered stock. Grizzly is on the bottom of his list for customer service because of that?

I'd say Scott ought to have a beer and relax. I understand the frustration of saving up money, finally pulling the trigger, and having to wait, but I don't think that excuses prematurely and publicly bashing a company for what seems like a minor issue.

Stuff gets backordered all the time. Deal with it.

[Rob Damon]

Every company has these kind of oops. It is frustrating.

I ordered a PM belt/disc. sander through my Local WC, and had them call the PM distribution center in Tenn. Yep, it is in stock. So I ordered it.

At the same time I ordered a SC Osc. spindle sander.

Both were "in stock" and would be due in one week for pickup.

A week goes by. Two weeks goes by. I call about status.

WC calls and finds the PM sander is out of stock in the Tenn. Warehouse, but they do have some in the West coast warehouse. But because the two inventory systems are not tied together, they don't process the sander out of the west coast stock, but typically wait for weeks/months until the Tenn. warehouse is restocked, even though they have several in the west coast warehouse just sitting there. WC came through by getting PM to drop ship from the West coast warehouse.

I ask about the SC osc. spindle sander status. WC calls SC and oops it's back order for 3 months. So I had to wait for the machines to be manufactured in Taiwan and boat shipped. When it finally arrived at the SC warehouse, it just sat there. I contacted WC where I bought it from and got me a contact person at SC. I called, and they said " it's going out tomorrow". After several emails, 2 weeks later it finally shipped from the warehouse. It sat in the SC warehouse for more than three weeks. You would think that after that long of a delay, they would have expedited it out, once it came over on a slow boat from asia.

It is just one of those things, you learn to live with. Both companys make great tools and Woodcraft (ours anyway) is top notch, so live and let live and move on. In the long run, my overwhelming experience with the three companys have been positive.

Rob

[Chuck Isaacson]

I would use this to my advantage and see if I could get the G0651 at a better price. They have them in stock.

I'm with this guy, try to swing a deal on the better saw. I am all about better products at lower prices!

[Shiraz Balolia]

Stuff gets backordered all the time. Deal with it.

I'm glad you said it and not I !

Here's the deal:

1) We had a real big run on the G0691, which is the new riving knife tablesaw with the extended rails. Yes, we are in a back order situation even though we have over ten containers on order.

2) This is a new machine for 2009 and one that is priced hundreds less than a very similar one from another supplier. So you can guess the reason for the run on them. Being a new machine we have to guesstimate consumption as we have no history of sales of this item.

3) We do have the regular version of this saw in stock.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/g0690

If the OP wants that instead, we will discount it the same amount as the other one ($55.00) as an accomodation for the stress this has obviously caused him.

4) No, we did not charge his card. This topic has come up many times and we do not, and cannot, charge a customer for items that are backordered. We charge when we ship.

5) In checking more details it appears that these will be coming in towards the end of June.

6) Since we do not have live inventory on our web site, and no plans for it, if you are in doubt, please call our toll-free line and you will be told of the status instantly.

7) Yes, I know this is the computer age. Gosh, we were one of the first, if not the first, companies in the machinery business to have an internet presence. Sometimes things appear simple, but are not. I do not wish to get into a discussion with computer and other experts about how easy it is to do this or that on our website.

[Bruce Page]

They’re not making pencils here, they’re making machinery. It doesn’t matter if it is Delta, Powermatic, Grizzly or SawStop, stuff happens.
Chill

[Ron Williams]

All of my dealings with Grizzly have been top notch. dont let a little delay cause you to miss out on owning what will be a very long term investment

[Alex Berkovsky]

When I order an item of such value, I always pick up a phone. Be that as it may, Grizzly does not charge you for an item ordered online if it's backordered. So you wasted 5 minutes entering your personal information.

I have ordered a BS from Grizzly and recently a G0690 TS. The TS arrived with some damage (UPS mishandled). Grizzly bent over backwards to send me replacement parts immediately no questions asked. I would not hesitate to order from them again.

[paul dyar]

4 months is not justifiable, IMHO.
paul

[Brian Kent]

Shiraz, I think it is excellent news that you company is on your Best Company list:D!

Thanks for your response.

I understand the frustration of getting hopes up, and you are on my Best Company list also.

Brian

[Dan Friedrichs]

4 months is not justifiable, IMHO.
paul


You think it takes less than 4 months to make a saw and get it here from China/Taiwan?

[Paul Ryan]

Saying "grizzly is now on the top of my bad company list" for something like this is a little harsh. If they would have waited a week to tell you ya it's back ordered until Aug. I would be pissed too. Since it was only a day or 2, just chill. Stuff happens, come on. I ordered a dell computer a year ago, ya I know 1st mistake. I ordered it when my other laptop was on its last leg, starting to fail. I was told yup you will have it in 2 weeks. 2 weeks goes by, then I get an e-mail, it will be another week. Another week goes by, another e-mail now another week again. So now my other laptop has died. Finally I got through to someone that would send me something, it turned out the same computer I ordered. Then it showed up with a busted screen. They promised a tech to replace it in 2 days. The tech showed up a week latter, and then screwed up the motherboard. After that I sent it back and bought an HP from circuit city. I think I had a reason to be pissed.

I suggest the Op chill out, and next time don't go to a public forum to complain over something so dumb.

[Peter Scoma]

Stock at grizzly seems to be low all around for some reason. I ordered some japanese chisels this week that are coming from WA (I live a couple hours from Muncy/Williamsport, PA). Last order was the same. I was also looking forward to taking a trip out to pick up some machinery and odds and ends but I hear that the store shelves are still barren.

Either way Grizzly is still number 1 in my book with number 2 way way behind. Noone comes close to the value they offer.

ps

[Greg Cuetara]

Frustration, Ok I get that. Posting that they are on the worst company list I think that is quite a bit over the top.

+1 here. Even with the age of the internet, internet ordering, email etc. If you want to know if something is in stock pick up the phone. The President of the company is even saying to call if you are really concerned about their stock.

There are many other companies out there. If Grizzly can't provide the product you want in a timely manor then they lose your business. If they can provide the product you want for the price you want to pay then they get your business. If you can't afford another product then you are stuck waiting.

[Dave Lehnert]

Anytime I wanted to order from Grizzly I e-mailed and asked if item was in stock before placing an order.
If Grizzly could figure out a way to guess exactly what I (us) were going to buy 3 month for now they would be rich. I don't even know what I will buy next week.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks......

In the current economy.....NO MANUFACTURER is keeping unnecessary stock in inventory. Since these products are manufactured in Taiwan, in the case of Grizzley, there are shipping delays. They don't just take an order from Grizzley and partially fill a cargo ship bound for the US. THat ship will try to get completely full before it begins it's journey. Secondly, I suspect the factories that build these don't just shut down an assembly line or plant waiting for Grizzly to place an order. They are probably building another Grizzly product or a product for another manufatcturer. That means they will finish their current production run and if the Grizzly order is next in line, they will get on it.

The point is you can expect with the current manufacturing facilities being around the world from the US...there will be some delays.

I'm sure if you had called your order in the sales person helping you could have verified stock.

Just because a business can't provide what you want in what your consider a timely manner doesn't mean they are a bad company.

I think you have several options:

1) Cancel your order with Grizzly and purchase a similar product elsewhere

2) Wait until Grizzly is able to deliver your order

Regardless, at least they notified you of the delay.

I work for a company that even if you purchase a multi-million dollar product....we may not be able to supply it for 3-26 weeks.

[Peter Scoma]

I'm sure if you had called your order in the sales person helping you could have verified stock.



Ken, I agree with all of your points 110% but I dont think there should be an expectation that "large/expensive" orders should be called in. I don't think I've ordered anything by phone sine 1996. :D

ps

[John Bailey]

I certainly can understand the frustration. I, personally, wouldn't be too upset, but I think there is reason to be for those with a different disposition. However, the first step should always be to call the company and, in this case, Grizzly has a good record on making things right. I think your chances of getting an adequate resolution are pretty good.

John

[Perry Underwood]

I live in Taiwan most of the year and sometimes buy machines from some of the companies that make much of the machinery that is exported to the US and Europe.

On almost every occasion I have had to wait until the company makes the machines as part, I assume, of an existing or forthcoming order. My order for one machine seems to be added to the order, so they make one more machine.

I think it is remarkable that the president of a major company in the US takes his time to answer posts on a forum. I don't know of many instances in which a person can so easily get the "ear" of a company's president.

[Rick Fisher]

This stuff happens all the time.. most people understand, some get wound up.. Much of it is just dissapointment, that the excitement of a new machine wont be fulfilled..

This is not a big deal.. if this puts a company on your "bad list".. you will end up with a very long "bad list" and a blank sheet of paper for a good list.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
Head guy of the company responds to a post in under 4 hours.

***** (5 star) company in my book.

No - I have no affiliation with Griz, nor do I own any Griz tools - yet.
I do however give Griz every possible consideration when looking.

Why?
Because the head guy of the company responds to a post in under 4 hours.

Class act. Well done. Bravo Mr.Balolia.

You sir, know how to do business. A trait uncommon in today's world.

To the OP:
Did you ask if the item was in stock prior to ordering it?

As an IT professional I can assure you of two things:
- Email is not guaranteed delivery. (if it's important, put it on paper or pick up the phone)
- Web sites are seldom, if ever, real time.

[phil harold]

Folks......

In the current economy.....NO MANUFACTURER is keeping unnecessary stock in inventory.

I agree with this here
but I dont understand this:



6) Since we do not have live inventory on our web site, and no plans for it, if you are in doubt, please call our toll-free line and you will be told of the status instantly.
Why should I doubt what their website says?
If the item is back-ordered, the website should reflect that.
People who are willing to wait will buy it.
Others who dont want to wait, wont be ticked off.
Like another poster says he has not called in an order since the last century, that would be true for me too.

[Myk Rian]

I placed my order for a new Grizzly G0691 this week. Received an email today saying that it is on back order till, get this, AUGUST 30th!!!!!!
This was discussed a few weeks ago. Grizzly is waiting for that slow boat in China to be filled before it sails.

[John Coloccia]

If you order something from their website, there is nothing that implies stock of any kind. The notion that the website "lied", or whatever, is simply not true, and anyone who thinks differently should go out to their site and see for themselves.

This is exactly how most industrial suppliers work in practically every industry. If you need to know exact ship times, items on hand, etc etc, you have to call them, just like every other large supplier on the planet. If you can't deal with that, you should buy through Woodcraft, or some other consumer oriented company. When I'm ordering anything that I absolutely have to have (or want to have) on time, I always CALL. This goes for Grainger, Digikey, Global, Newark....doesn't matter. You gotta call...always.

I've had nothing but perfect customer service experiences with Grizzly. I had one just a day or two ago. I bought a Shop Fox Pin Router frame, and it came with a cracked part. I called Shop Fox and they said, "Ohhh...you bought it from Grizzly? You have to go through them. They prefer to handle the customer service themselves." I call Grizzly, and 5 minutes later I have a new part shipped out, practically no questions asked. Stocking parts for other manufacturer's items just so you can handle customer service calls to your satisfaction is OUTSTANDING customer service.

my newbie $.02

[Ed Labadie]

This whole thread has got me miffed.

Just for spite.........................I'm gonna go place an order with Grizzly. :eek:

Ed

[Lee Mitchell]

I worked for a number of years for a wholesale distributor of power equipment. We purchased from the manufacturer and resold to retail stores. (Two-step distribution) So, we saw problems in the delivery/re-stocking chain from all sides.

Since much of our merchandise was seasonal, orders were usually placed 6 months in advance. Even with the very best planning, computer tracking systems, etc. Murphy's Law would step in. Just one example:

A popular item was on backorder from the manufacturer, thus, we had backorders to our customers. Based on the manufactuer's delivery schedule, we in turn, promised delivery dates to our customers.

After the semi, loaded with our backordered product, backed up to the dock doors, we found Murphy had visited. The load had shifted in the trailer during the trip from the freight terminal. Pallets of merchandise were crushed.

Needless to say, we couldn't fill a material portion of those backorders. Yes, we had a number of irate customers. Once we explained the situation, most took it in stride. A few ranted and raged, as if that could shorten the lead time needed to replace the damaged stock. Those failed to realize that for every sale they lost, we lost one, too.

I've been a satisified Grizzly customer for a number of years. I've received good value for my money, even when I had to wait for a backordered jointer. Recently ordered a tenoning jig for my 1023S. Savings were considerable after comparing prices to other brand name jigs.

I doubt those savings would have been possible, if Grizzly had a real-time ordering and inventory control system in place on line. In the 90's, at one point we were paying over $800 per HOUR, for customized programming to meet our specific needs for a real time system. And the end result wasn't 100% fool-proof either. A single digit data entry error in posting amerchandise receipt could force an item into backorder, even though the product was indeed on the shelf.

In closing, Grizzly is HIGH on my list! I'm well pleased with their equipment and the customer service I've received over the last 8 years.

Lee in NC

[scott spencer]

Now that there's some clarity about the credit card charges, an alternative to the issue, and a considerable shortening of the stated wait time, what's the status and current view from the OP?

News of the backorder came pretty quickly and no money was exchanged. If I were in Scott's shoes, I wouldn't be happy either, but I've never thought it makes sense to respond to business circumstances emotionally, and eliminate a business from my permanent potential shopping list without major justification.... ultimately I'm the one who misses out on potential deals down the road. A backorder situation is more of an inconvenience/disappointment IMO, but it's not a major issue.

[Joel Earl]

Only thought or thing I can toss out that not be said often enough is this --- crap happens. To them all. Which means to us in the end.
I trust myself only - I walk into a place and see it and buy it right there and home it goes. Otherwise I have sadly learned that these things occur.
Heck - I'd be upset too. I'd either cancel and move on or change the model or just wait it out. Well - it'd be the wait if I wanted it bad enough.

I try to keep it in perspective. My daughter needs 2 knee replacements. Options are artificial and will likely need numerious operations in the future or donor femurs that they cut/modify to create the knee "sockets" she needs to salvage what they can of her own knees. It's a long involved process -- even to explain so it's clear to someone.
So the wait's been 14 months now. Meanwhile she stuggles to walk even with her "sticks" without tears in her eyes or more often screams of pain.

And we get excited about a wait for tools. Or other things.:o

[Phil Thien]

Reading this thread, the first thing that comes to mind is "the little boy that cried wolf." There have been a number of them lately. Eventually, Shiraz will just ignore SMC.

[Greg Cole]

Even if a web site is "real time", inventory is kept track of with bar code scanning etc, there are still inventory discrepencies. Simple fact of life.
Waiting to fill containers is one thing, booking space on a vessel is another. The ship lines like Maersk, Hapaag Lloyd etc do things their way at their pace. It's 3-4 weeks from the Pacific Rim to any US port and another 10 or so days to move containers on a rail & then final delivery is another week "or so", again all depending on the steam lines.
New products are usually introduced at a low volume until sales can establish a trend & inventory level can then be adjusted. As Ken said, no company regardless of industry keeps excess inventory. JIT inventory has been used for 15+ years, its not new.
Grizzly is a great company to deal with and offer very serviceable machinery at attractive prices. The fact that Shiraz addressed this issue muy pronto should be a very good example of the customer service policy of the company (and he's done this same thing on many occasions here & other forums).
Pick up the phone and work on a resolution if you can't wait, the initiative is on you, not them.

[Stephen Edwards]

Grizzly is on the top of my list for merchandise and customer service. The few problems that I've experienced have always been worked out in a timely, courteous manner.

I placed an order a couple of weeks ago for several misc. items. I paid via the new Paypal Plugin feature. Items shipped from multiple locations. One item was back ordered. My PP account was charged when an item shipped, not when I placed the order. I received notice yesterday that the final item, the back order, had been shipped and my acct. was charged accordingly.

Top notch company all the way! I would encourage the OP to not let this inconvenience and temporary frustration make you write off Grizzly as a supplier. They are very hard to beat for bang for the buck and great customer service.

One more thing: I've learned that many times when an item is back ordered the time frame stated for arrival is kinda like going to the doctor. Like doctors, companies will often give you the worst case scenario in their prognosis! Frequently a BO item will arrive before the projected arrival date.

My two cents............

[Bill Blackburn]

I try to keep it in perspective. My daughter needs 2 knee replacements. Options are artificial and will likely need numerious operations in the future or donor femurs that they cut/modify to create the knee "sockets" she needs to salvage what they can of her own knees. It's a long involved process -- even to explain so it's clear to someone.
So the wait's been 14 months now. Meanwhile she stuggles to walk even with her "sticks" without tears in her eyes or more often screams of pain.

And we get excited about a wait for tools. Or other things.:o


Thank you for the rap on noggin which I need from time to time.
Your comments hit home.

She sounds like she is a tough gal and endured a lot. Wishing the best of luck to your daughter and hope that she finds a donor soon and that everything works out for her, you and your family. God Bless

[Robert Strebler]

OK, the OP needs to get ripped on this one. He started a thread bashing a company with false information. Grizzly did not take his money on a back ordered item as he stated in his original post.

Grizzly in my experience, has gone beyond my expectations at resolving problems, and as such have gained a customer for life. Stuff happens, but they make a customer service effort that is uncommon in today's world. However, they have know there is a problem.

It appears that the OP didn't even have the courtesy to call Grizzly, jumped to a wrong conclusion or worse, and then slammed the company on a highly trafficked and public forum about woodworking. That is in very poor taste.

Give Grizzly, or any company for that matter, a call to see what they will do to resolve a problem before slamming them to others. It's the right thing to do.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Only thought or thing I can toss out that not be said often enough is this --- crap happens. To them all. Which means to us in the end.
I trust myself only - I walk into a place and see it and buy it right there and home it goes. Otherwise I have sadly learned that these things occur.
Heck - I'd be upset too. I'd either cancel and move on or change the model or just wait it out. Well - it'd be the wait if I wanted it bad enough.

I try to keep it in perspective. My daughter needs 2 knee replacements. Options are artificial and will likely need numerious operations in the future or donor femurs that they cut/modify to create the knee "sockets" she needs to salvage what they can of her own knees. It's a long involved process -- even to explain so it's clear to someone.
So the wait's been 14 months now. Meanwhile she stuggles to walk even with her "sticks" without tears in her eyes or more often screams of pain.

And we get excited about a wait for tools. Or other things.:o

Joe...my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your daughter!

Some things in life are important.....most things (including a delayed tool order) aren't.

[Caleb Larru]

I prefer the painful truth right out of the gate, don't you?


Without a doubt. I feel like I have been strung along. I don't like that.

I originally ordered the JET AFS-1000B but it nearly burned my shop down. Those Jet AFS do not get along with fluorescent lighting. I called Jet and their answer to the problem was I could change the lighting or work in the dark and that the problem wasn't thiers. I will NEVER buy another JET product again because of this.

It looks like I will be buying either a Grizzly or the JDS.

[Seth Poorman]

Hey Scott
I would get the 66 if its in good shape....

[Julian Nicks]

I have to agree with Robert. Don't come on a woodworker forum and bash a company without merit. CALL the company up and get the problem resolved. IF the company won't resolve the problem to your satisfaction, THEN come here and post your rant. Grizzly has some of the best customer service of any company you'll deal with.

[Jerome Hanby]

OK, the OP needs to get ripped on this one. He started a thread bashing a company with false information. Grizzly did not take his money on a back ordered item as he stated in his original post.

That may be a little harsh. When I place an order and and click the confirm button, as far as my budget goes, that money has been spent. It is no longer available for anything else. They accepted an order that they were not able to fulfill, and while they didn't collect money from his bank, they left him in a situation where he has to take action to cancel that order if the back order time is not acceptable. I think an email stating that this was a back order situation and the order was suspended unless this email receives a reply would have been a great solution. Maybe not as good as a notice at order time that "this item may be back ordered, please call xxx-xxx-xxxx for more information", but at least no further action is required of the customer unless they accept the back order.

If this song and dance cost the opportunity to buy another saw, I'd be upset. If I had already decided on a new saw, then I would not be pleased with the back order. Knowing upfront, I could have spent my time trying to get a price match on another saw with similar features. In this economy, it's a buyers market...

[Ron Kellison]

I'm glad you said it and not I !


Yes, I know this is the computer age. Gosh, we were one of the first, if not the first, companies in the machinery business to have an internet presence. Sometimes things appear simple, but are not. I do not wish to get into a discussion with computer and other experts about how easy it is to do this or that on our website.

Shiraz:

Good for you to respond so quickly! It must make you feel good to see how many defenders jumped into the fray.

My only gripe with Grizzly is that I can't get your products in Canada. I understand the family connection, but I wish you could work out some sort of accommodation to make a few of your tablesaws, jointers, planers and bandsaws available up here through established channels. Whoever you partnered with would almost certainly take a big chunk of market share!:)

Regards,

Ron

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I don't think anybody should get ripped.......

Grizzly was out of stock and the OP could have found that out by calling the company first before placing his order.

Grizzly didn't charge his credit card or won't until it ships.

Call the company and get some resolution!

There are some important things going on in the world ...like a H1N1 virus.....

[Bill Blackburn]

Easy enough now looking back.

Call
Cancel if wanting to
Move on

How many brain cells were burnt up getting frustrated and angry? Maybe none - but the time and anger involved would make me nuts myself.
And there seems to be little value in going to much further in this thread either. We have 2 camps and 2 opinions.

[Mike OMelia]

Although I disagree with the OP, I don't want to apear to be piling on... there has been enough of that already. Shiraz (as I expected) found this thread and offered a reasonable explanation. 'Nuff said.

Grizzly is a fine company.

Mike

[Kevin Barnett]

(Sarcastic) I'd much rather wait for my Jet rebate for 10 months (and counting) when I was promised 6-8 weeks.

Big deal. Cancel the order. It's not like you are being strung along. Perhaps a big company came in seconds before you and ordered all their stock. Things like this happen. At least they told you in a timely manner so you can act accordingly.

I am a supporter of the Griz. I would only have half the machines I currently have if it weren't for them. Perhaps you need to go gold...

[tyler mckenzie]

Support local. Buy the 66 if its in good shape. It will hold its resale value.

[Joe Von Kaenel]

This seems to be the sign of the times. Recently I've placed orders for several woodworking tools from different companies and had the same thing happen. I understand your frustration, but it isn't just Grizzly


Joe

[Ben Davis]

I saw a lot of comments understanding his frustration, but didn't see anyone taking him to task. I find that odd, so I'll be a little hard on Scott.

-- If I understand right, Scott placed an order and they promptly (within days) told him it was backordered. He did not wait months and then get told they didn't have it--it was almost immediate.

-- Scott did not indicate his card has been charged, contrary to what some people seem to be implying. As far as I know, he isn't out any cash and hasn't paid anything.

-- Scott has the option to walk away and buy somewhere else, which he has not elected to do, notwithstanding saying Grizzly has the worst customer service.

-- Scott, as far as I know, hasn't even called them to find out if there are other options.

So, if I get this right, he has trashed a company in a public forum for--in effect--not updating their website fast enough with respect to backordered stock. Grizzly is on the bottom of his list for customer service because of that?

I'd say Scott ought to have a beer and relax. I understand the frustration of saving up money, finally pulling the trigger, and having to wait, but I don't think that excuses prematurely and publicly bashing a company for what seems like a minor issue.

Stuff gets backordered all the time. Deal with it.
I see your points Eric. The problem is he just loaned them his money for 4 months without any interest payment. I'd be quite upset too given how tight things are around my house.

[Jonathan Spool]

As a company owner I am aware of the phenomena that occurs when a customer makes public a negative experience. It takes a lot of positivity to make up for a little negativity in the market place. Lately, I have noted a trend on the forums where a poster slams a company, seemingly hoping for a greater discount or otherwise inequitable return of their online drama.
Manufacturers are often held "Hostage" to these "Screamers". I recognise that there are often legitimate claims, and have a lot of respect for posters that have taken every means to resolve a problem in house with the manufacturer prior to going public. Likewise, I have great respect for owners like Shiraz who have the decency to respond in a public forum in such excellent form (always). Customers must realize that the more requirements they place on a company such as Grizzly, such as in house IT upgrades, quicker and smaller lots to ship from China, etc. etc., the more Grizzly will be required to charge for their merchandise. You don't go to Costco, and expect the same customer service as you get in Nordstroms now do you? That being said, Grizzly has maintained excellent customer service, where it counts.
In this day of rapid and mass communication there has to be some level of responsibility exibited by the general public before slamming companies prior to making effort to resolve issues privately.
Just my two cents!

[Bill Huber]

I see your points Eric. The problem is he just loaned them his money for 4 months without any interest payment. I'd be quite upset too given how tight things are around my house.


That is not true, you need to read all of the post.

The fact is if that money he spent on the saw is in a saving account or interest bearing checking account then he will get some interest on it until Aug.

His card was not charged and the law states it can not be charged until shipment.

[Joel Earl]

I see your points Eric. The problem is he just loaned them his money for 4 months without any interest payment. I'd be quite upset too given how tight things are around my house.



Originally Posted by Eric DeSilva http://sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1122135#post1122135)

-- Scott did not indicate his card has been charged, contrary to what some people seem to be implying. As far as I know, he isn't out any cash and hasn't paid anything.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++

He did get charged???? I did not gather that to be the case Ben:confused:

I did not think so and read this to many times - eyes are watering as I type. I have never heard of them doing that to anyone before. Never

[Jim O'Dell]

But Ben, he didn't loan them anything. All he did was promise to pay by the agreed method when the item was shipped. Shiraz and others have said that they don't charge the credit card until the item is shipped.

As I said before, I'd be disappointed that the item was not in stock, but in the case of this saw, I'd wait. I think it is that good of a value. Jim.

[Eric DeSilva]

I was saying that he did not get charged. Shiraz also indicated in an earlier post that Grizzly does not charge if backordered. So, he should not be out a penny.

[Paul Johnstone]

I placed my order for a new Grizzly G0691 this week. Received an email today saying that it is on back order till, get this, AUGUST 30th!!!!!! In this day and age they couldn't have put that information on their web page? Don't tell me I can order one, take my money and then tell me you don't have one to ship. Let me know BEFORE I order that there is a 4 month delay. To me, that is just crappy customer service! Right now I have half a mind to cancel my order and go someplace else! Should have bought that used Powermatic 66 after all. I am not a happy camper!!!:mad:

Do it. Cancel the order.

That's the only way they will change their policies. Right now, it's more profitable to maintain the current system. Enough people tolerate these absurd that it has become a common practice for some companies. (To keep inventory absurdly low and have long lead times)

Seems like a no brainer to me. The alternative is to stew over it until Aug 30, and then possibly get another delay notice :p

[Keith Outten]

Paul,

Possibly you haven't noticed but these are very uncertain economic times we are in right now and it is a common practice for companies to run their inventories below their normal levels. I can't say that this is what Grizzly is doing but every business I frequent is adjusting their inventory among other things to just stay in business.

The flow of products to market is not at normal levels and some companies are having trouble forecasting consumer purchasing. Many companies are riding the financial edge making decisions month by month, it is a really tough time to be in business.

Many consumers have their heads in the sand expecting their purchases to be delivered without interruption or delay......frankly I am amazed that things are going as well as they are given the seriousness of the global economic situation.
.

[Bill Huber]

Do it. Cancel the order.

That's the only way they will change their policies. Right now, it's more profitable to maintain the current system. Enough people tolerate these absurd that it has become a common practice for some companies. (To keep inventory absurdly low and have long lead times)

Seems like a no brainer to me. The alternative is to stew over it until Aug 30, and then possibly get another delay notice :p

So what Grizzly should do is to make millions of the saws and keep them in different warehouses all over the country. Then when their inventory overhead is so high they can handle it, they could just ask the government for a bail out. Lets see have I heard this before. I think, just not sure where.......

[Blake Barr]

wow 5 pages and counting... seriously... if you can't wait for the saw go elsewhere... it's that simple. If it's such a good deal you can't get it elsewhere then wait... 4 pages of responses is silly for such a trivial matter.... People need to quit pretending like anyone that runs a company is out to SCREW people for money or just to screw people in general... this is life, deal with it and if someone can't fill your needs for your hard earned dollars go elsewhere... simple!

As a disclaimer I'm just a peon with a job in a phone center... maybe I'm just jaded from all the people who are completely unreasonable and want things their way and they want it now rather than working with the system....

All that said I do understand the frustration... just not the drama.....

[Danny Thompson]

Okay, everything Shiraz says is reasonable. And we knew it would be. He's got a consistent record here. People raise issues, complaints. He explains (which he doesn't have to do, but I think is wise because many of us would never buy from Grizzly if sites like this didn't raise our awareness of them, so their reputation among a community like this is important) Okay. Good.

And I, too, am glad Shiraz didn't say, "Deal with it!!" Because that surely would have been a problem.

That aside. Scott is frustrated. We're all friends here. I mean. Dang. My wife is at the top of my hate list some days, and I wouldn't take anything for her! I get frustrated with my job some days, but I sure don't want to lose it!

And who better to understand Scott's frustration than his online woodworking buddies. I mean, the Mrs., his boss, daughter, and the parking lot attendant sure aren't going to understand!

Okay, so there will always be a post out here that says, "Today was not Grizzly's best day." That will balance out all the "The Green Guys Rule!" posts. They put out good tols at a low price. Some warts appear now and again, and we need to admit it. It's up to Grizzly to either live with them, or improve them. That's it.

I've got my own frustrations with the company. They appear to be missing a "right first time, every time" standard, but it appears, eventually, they do what needs to be done to satisfy the customer, which is more than you can say about a lot of companies, but less than you can about others.

So, Scott, I say, vent if you want. Just don't incorrectly state the facts of the situation, like sometimes happens here, and you are good.

[Bruce Benjamin]

I have to agree with Robert. Don't come on a woodworker forum and bash a company without merit. CALL the company up and get the problem resolved. IF the company won't resolve the problem to your satisfaction, THEN come here and post your rant. Grizzly has some of the best customer service of any company you'll deal with.

In reality, no matter what steps are taken by a customer, if you come onto this forum and bash Grizzly you are certain to get flamed heavily. I have yet to see a thread that was critical of Grizzly that didn't have at least some of the replies slamming the OP. Even the treads that are critical of the shipping damage problems that Grizzly is famous for have some posters defending them to the very end.

Clearly Grizzly has a large following of very loyal customers and that must be deserved. But no company is perfect no matter how some posters or Grizzly want to spin it. Every company will drop the ball occasionally and even Grizzly can screw up once in a while and not manage to make it right.

Bruce

[Bruce Benjamin]

Reading this thread, the first thing that comes to mind is "the little boy that cried wolf." There have been a number of them lately. Eventually, Shiraz will just ignore SMC.

I doubt that this will happen. Shiraz posting on this or any other forum in response to complaints usually benefits his company at least as much as it benefits his customers/potential customers. You can look at his reply as doing the OP a favor. I look at it as damage control. There's nothing wrong with damage control at all but don't pretend it's all about customer service. If the sole purpose of Shiraz's post was customer service it could've been done via PM or a direct email. If I were in Shiraz's place I would've done the exact same thing...Because I would want to keep my company from looking bad in the public eye. If my only goal was to selflessly help the customer I would've contacted the OP privately.

Bruce

[Chris Padilla]

This thread has run its course...let's move on, Folks.

:) Happy Friday to all! :)