Refinishing an old Singer Pedal Sewing Machine?

[Dennis Peacock]

Ok Folks....let's muster up all our knowledge here. Here is my task at hand:

I have a friend that wants me to refinish his wife's mother's old Singer Sewing machine. The top veneers are heavily stained, and coming loose around the edges. The very top "lid" of the cabinet looks like someone set a hot steam iron on top of it and left the exact pattern of an iron in the QSWO veneer top. I have some minor repairs to do and I will NOT be stripping the whole cabinet. I just need to get the veneer's off the top of the cabinet surfaces and put down new QSWO veneer and attempt to match the old finish. Or is this even possible?

I can post pics if any of you need them to see what I'm up against for more accurate advice. I can't afford to screw this up.!!!!

[Chris Padilla]

You know the deal with pics here, Dennis...I'm shocked you didn't post them to begin with! :eek:

[Michael Ballent]

I guess the first thing you need to determine is what type of glue was used for the veneer. If it's hide glue then you should be able to steam off the veneer, not sure what this could cause to the substrate though...

As far as matching the finish... get lots of scraps and try to match the color as close as possible. The best suggestion is to finish the scraps all the way to the final coat and sanding... better to goof up the scraps than the real stuff ;)

[Jim Becker]

Dennis, you'll likely be able to match your finish color through careful dyeing and glazing with various grades of shellac. (That could be what's on it now...) Be sure to do a thorough cleaning of the whole thing so that you're matching "finish" and not "dirt"...as well as how the wood may have darkened over time. Need I say...make up sample panels with your veneer to test out various finishing regimens before you commit to the real deal! Steve Mickley may be of assistance to you with more detailed answers to your questions. His site is at: http://johnjacobmickley.net/Shop%20Pages/Finishing%20Frame.htm If you happen to accidently go to his home page (commercial site), just click on his watch in the cover photo to get back to the "woodworking" pages... :D

[Mark Singer]

Be especially careful not to damage the "Singer" name on the machine...or anywhere else

[Dennis Peacock]

OK...since Chris brought it up about needing pics and the rules around here.

I guess I can use my new camera and post a few pics. :eek: Whoops!!! Was that a stealth gloat? :confused: :D

Here are a couple of shots of the sewing machine, table surface and top surface.

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis, you'll likely be able to match your finish color through careful dyeing and glazing with various grades of shellac. (That could be what's on it now...) Be sure to do a thorough cleaning of the whole thing so that you're matching "finish" and not "dirt"...as well as how the wood may have darkened over time. Need I say...make up sample panels with your veneer to test out various finishing regimens before you commit to the real deal! Steve Mickley may be of assistance to you with more detailed answers to your questions. His site is at: http://johnjacobmickley.net/Shop%20Pages/Finishing%20Frame.htm If you happen to accidently go to his home page (commercial site), just click on his watch in the cover photo to get back to the "woodworking" pages... :D

Jim,

Thanks for the web page tip. I went there and bookmarked it for future reference as I do believe I will need it.!! :)

I'll find out what the overall finish is over this coming weekend. I have until September to get it done before he goes by to his home....<b> very near the cheesehead....I mean John M. !! :D

[Dennis Peacock]

Be especially careful not to damage the "Singer" name on the machine...or anywhere else

Mark,

you did real good there. You caught me off my guard there for a minute! :rolleyes: I'll be especially careful of the "Singer" name!! ;) :D

The last stamp I found on this machine was 1896....Would this be the date it was made?

[David Rose]

That's pretty nice condition Dennis. I wish I knew more to help you on the veneering, but I did do one thing. I bought one for Cheryl years ago and it appears to have never been refinished. Since it needs finishing I check a spot and alcohol DOES remove the finish. Her's is shellaced. Of course, other finishes might have been used or it could have been refinished with something else.

David

[Dennis Peacock]

That's pretty nice condition Dennis. I wish I knew more to help you on the veneering, but I did do one thing. I bought one for Cheryl years ago and it appears to have never been refinished. Since it needs finishing I check a spot and alcohol DOES remove the finish. Her's is shellaced. Of course, other finishes might have been used or it could have been refinished with something else.

David

Hey Bud....

Why don't you start working on it now and we'll help each other out through the process? ;) I guess I can try the finish deal on the top since I will have to replace the veneer anyway. It appears to be QSWO veneer and I need to find out now....the best way to remove the old veneers. Idears?

[Dennis Peacock]

Oh...I forgot.....I need to find a supplier for the belt. The old one is broken and I need to get a new one to put back on it when its refinished. Where can I get a new belt for it?

[Ken Wright]

Singer that my Grandmother had in her house her entire life and when she died in '76 she gave it to my Mom. I have first dibs on it when the time comes.

Mom's machine is in excellent condition ... as is your's Dennis other than the top. If you need some pics of Mom's machine give me a little warning and I'll get my brother to take them for you.... Mom lives 200+ miles north of here.

Good luck ... that's a treasure.

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Dennis, as mentioned before, the finish match will be a trial and error process. But, with patience and the right approach, it shouldn't be too difficult to get it close, or right on. This reminds me of the Coffin Bookcase Project I did late last year..............it took some tinkering with different things, but I finally got a match that was pretty much right on. With the assortment of Dyes and Toners available now, you can pretty much match any exisiting finish. From the looks of the front cabinet drawers, the finish looks to be slightly different shades, so a match should be pretty straightforward. I really like these old Sewing Machines................around these parts, they can be had at Auction for a reasonable price. Most of the ones I see are in about the same condition as the one you are going to work over. Good luck with it Dennis.......................I am sure you will do just fine! ;)

[Jim Becker]

Dennis, after seeing the pictures, I'm wondering if you might be better served by trying to preserve the existing veneer on that top. Stripping just the top, bleaching a bit to get around the staining from the steam iron and making repairs to the veneer before refinishing it might be possible. You may want to have a chat with a "real" furniture restorer to get their opinion on this as pictures often lie a bit...

That's a magnificent sewing setup, by the way!

[Dennis Peacock]

You may want to have a chat with a "real" furniture restorer to get their opinion on this as pictures often lie a bit...

That's a magnificent sewing setup, by the way!

Jim,

I would but I only know of two around these parts and they both have a reputation for ruining many furniture peices! :eek: So needless to say, I have been warned and told my several to not trust these folks. I'll talk around and see what else I can find out though.

[John Miliunas]

I have until September to get it done before he goes by to his home....<b> very near the cheesehead....I mean John M. !! :D

Oh yeah???!!! Cool! :cool: Whereabouts? :confused:

As for removing the existing veneer: OK, please do NOT cringe, but I redid the veneer on my buddy's solid body guitar a while back. It had some pretty deep gouges in it and had come to the end of its useful life (Hey, HIS appraisal, NOT mine!). Anyhow, he just wanted a new veneer on it. I do not know how the original had been applied, but applying heat didn't do the trick. Believe it or not, my Delta drum sander came to the rescue! Very, VERY light passes, until I got through the veneer, then switched to a finer grit and more very light passes for final cleanup. The new veneer went on slicker than snot on a brass doorknob! This is, of course, a possibility if the top comes completely off the cabinet. :rolleyes: I know the outrigger can, but I'm not sure about the top on the base of the cabinet. Anyhow, something to consider. :)

BTW, very NICE pics with that new rig of yours! :D :cool:

[Greg Heppeard]

http://www.sew2go.com/smparts.htm How about a belt for under $10?

If you decide to replace the veneer, make sure which oak it is...white or red. The veneer should have been put on with hide glue the first time, light steam will soften it and make it easy to peal off. Make sure you don't get paper backed veneer...the paper will show. Do you have a veneer press?? If not you can spray the new veneer with a mixture of starch and water (I think there was another thing in there too but can't remember) then press it between unprinted newspaper and a couple of pieces of plywood with weights. We have a veneering book at the store and I'll see if I can find the correct formula for pressing veneer, if you need it...just pm me. the finish was most likely orange shellac. Several coats will give you the color you are looking for. You can spray it in an HVLP to make it easier. A 1 lb cut works great in the sprayer.

[Larry Browning]

Dennis,
I only know one thing about antiques. The best way to DEvalue an antique is to refinish it. Are you sure you want to do this at all? My understanding is that refinishing destroys it's "antiqueness" thus reducing it's value. I would think that completely replacing the veneer top would really be a no no. But then again maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but at least ask an antique dealer about your planned project before you start.

Larry

[Jack Young]

Dennis-

I'm inclined to agree with Jim Becker. Unless the veneer on the top is terrible and useless, you might be better off repairing any splits or splintered-out edges before doing any finish. The best refinisher down in Little Rock years ago would always repair with matching grain, then strip, which meant that the pigment, etc.,dissolved in the liquid stripping compound would begin to bring the repairs into the same general tone as the older wood. (That might work the same way for the iron mark on the top, which has probably removed only the finish, anyway.) Then he would have less contrast to deal with in touching up. He said that the old wood never lost its color entirely, anyway. Just a thought.

Jack

[Dennis Peacock]

Larry,

I am doing only what my "customer" says he wants, but I will check with him one more time before I destroy what is there.

Greg,

Thanks for the info and offer of assistance. I may need to call you over this if necessary.

Jack,

I hate to "redo" anything....especially something of what I consider to be grand value.!!!! I will have to find something to just "wash it up" a bit and see what she looks like. I plan on doing all I can to save the original veneer...unless my client says "take it off"!

[Pete Lamberty]

I didn't get a chance to read everyones replies so I might be repeating this advice. Now I don't know anything about antiques other than I have seen the Antique Road Show from time to time. It seems that the "experts" usually say not to do anything to the piece, just leave it as it is. I would find out if it's monetary value would be lost if you repaired the machine. Let us know how it goes.

[Alan Turner]

Dennis,
Just a guess, but it looks like QS red oak to me. I would try mightily to not re-veneer. You may be able to save the existing veneer, esp. if it was done with hide glue, which is highly likely if made before 1920 or so. Clean out what you can on the loose parts. See if hot water doesn't loosen/soften the glue. Make sure there are no lumps left, either of glue or dirt. Might want to use distilled water if your local water has any iron. Then make up some hide glue, and clamp/weight it. Will take 24 hours to fully dry. I always use distilled water in making up hide glue anyway, just to be safe. At $1/gal, the cost is negligible. I keep it around for grain raising anyway.
I would try alcohol on the top for a start as if it is shellac, which I think it probably is, then the use of alcohol will melt the existing finish, and respread it, evening the color. A few minor stains would be fine with me, but that is a matter of taste. Just an old piece showing its age. If you don't spray, then make a french polish rubber, and get a few coats of orange shellac on it and see where you are. If you don't like it, it comes off easily.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
Alan

[Betsy Yocum]

Dennis - I have a singer with almost the same exact cabinet, mine however is a pedal machine - the story I'm told is that it was one of the first Singer's made. Fortunately, mine has not been used as an iron rest! I am trying to find a belt for mine as well.

I've talked to a few antique dealers and they told me that I should never, under any circumstances try to refinsh the cabinet as that would make the antique virtually worthless. They told me to put a nice dollie over the spot and call it fixed!

Now if your customer still wants to refinish you may try to look for a restorer specializing in antiques. Your best bet for finding one would be to visit one of the larger antique malls and ask around. You may end up shipping it somewhere to get it done right. I do know one fella in Virginia that does that type of refinishing - but he's just had heart bypass surgery and his wife won't even let him sign jobs up! (Good for her!). I'll see though if I can get a recommendation from him for you - if I can get past his wife!

Good luck!
Betsy

[Ron Smith ... Richmond, VA]

I have some minor repairs to do and I will NOT be stripping the whole cabinet.
I can post pics if any of you need them to see what I'm up against for more accurate advice. I can't afford to screw this up.!!!!

My project was alittle further gone than yours ... I had to do the whole strip deal ... but it looks good when it's done.

[Donald Hofmann]

I have two Singer's similar to yours, except that mine don't have the intricate carvings. Mine are Model 127-3. The owner's manual for one of them is date 1913.

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis - I have a singer with almost the same exact cabinet, mine however is a pedal machine - the story I'm told is that it was one of the first Singer's made. Fortunately, mine has not been used as an iron rest! I am trying to find a belt for mine as well.

I've talked to a few antique dealers and they told me that I should never, under any circumstances try to refinsh the cabinet as that would make the antique virtually worthless. They told me to put a nice dollie over the spot and call it fixed!

Good luck!
Betsy

Thanks Betsy.....This too is a pedal sewing machine. I like a good challenge. I have restored many antiques.....but never replaced any veneer.

[Dennis Peacock]

My project was alittle further gone than yours ... I had to do the whole strip deal ... but it looks good when it's done.

Ron,

you did a fine job there......looks really good. ;)

[Betsy Yocum]

Dennis - let me know if you find a belt. I've looked high and low and have not found one.

Thanks

[Ron Smith ... Richmond, VA]

Dennis - let me know if you find a belt. I've looked high and low and have not found one.

Thanks

Folks ... I know it sounds almost too easy ... but I found a Singer belt on Ebay for $5.00 when I re finished my machine. Just my $5.02 worth ...

Ron

[Carl Eyman]

Were the belts used round leather belts joined with a wire loop that looked something like a chain link? Just testing my memory.

[Greg Heppeard]

Betsy,

Check out the link in my previous post...belts for around $10