Your DSL modem is watching you.

[Stephen Tashiro]

An interesting web page says the Qwest DSL modem actually keeps a log of your internet activity. And its firewall doesn't block the port that the outside world would use to administrate the modem. http://blog.kgrothoff.net/2006/08/12/how-to-disable-the-actiontec-dsl-modem-web-activity-log/


Oh well, I guess there is no escaping surveillance. My city is installing the auto-ticketing cameras at intersections too.

[Pat Germain]

I don't know about the modem, but your ISP logs all activity from your modem MAC address. (Unlike the IP address, the MAC address doesn't change.)

Search engines, like Google, also keep logs of what people are searching for. They gather the information for trends and to target advertising. And they can track it down to MAC address, and thus individual users, if they really want to.

Typically, the logs at an ISP and on search engine servers are just overwritten after so many days and nobody looks at them. If someone is suspected of criminal activity, then the logs are examined, but only with a warrant.

[David G Baker]

Stephen,
Don't know about the spies around us but I do know that several cities have been sued over the traffic camera ticket scam and have lost. After spending a fortune to install them they had to remove them. Big Brother lost that battle. Before Las Cruces goes that route they should do a little legal research.

[Joe Pelonio]

Stephen,
Don't know about the spies around us but I do know that several cities have been sued over the traffic camera ticket scam and have lost. After spending a fortune to install them they had to remove them. Big Brother lost that battle. Before Las Cruces goes that route they should do a little legal research.
Can you name a few that have taken them out? Here they are going in all over the place, it's like a cash cow.

[Robert Eiffert]

a bit more on electronic surveillance--

Analysis Of The Provisions Of The USA PATRIOT Act
That Relate To Online Activities http://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism/20011031_eff_usa_patriot_analysis.php

[Mike Henderson]

Stephen,
Don't know about the spies around us but I do know that several cities have been sued over the traffic camera ticket scam and have lost. After spending a fortune to install them they had to remove them. Big Brother lost that battle. Before Las Cruces goes that route they should do a little legal research.
Around here, after you've watched someone fly through a red light, significantly after it's turned red, you don't just start off when the light turns green. You look both ways to make sure no one's coming flying.

I wish all intersections had cameras. And while I know of a few places where they took them out for one reason or another, the overall trend is that a lot more are going in. Phoenix is the worse. They have cameras on the freeways to check speed. It seems like the cameras are every couple of miles.

Mike

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I will caution everyone to keep this thread from getting political.

[Greg Peterson]

Saw an interesting video about Facebook. It's easy enough to find via Google. Suffice it to say the people involved in setting up and running Facebook are very well connected with certain federal agencies that tend to work on the dark side. Some very direct connections. Just reading the terms of service is chilling. The Internet is not anonymous.

As for traffic cameras, bring 'em on. I think the cameras are an effective deterrent. To bad the law by itself doesn't work.

[Lee Mitchell]

It had been a couple of years since I had a computer. Recently bought this one and got back on line. Frankly, I was both surprised and annoyed when google started displaying LOCAL vendors during product searches. I wondered how they knew my location, since I didn't include that in my search criterior.

Thanks for the info on how it's being done.

Lee in NC

[Scott Shepherd]

If you use Google (and most search engines), then they are logging every single thing you do. If you use Google Desktop, which indexes your entire computer and all you do, you give Google permission to use that data however they want. You don't give them rights to the files on your computer, but I believe you give them the rights to just about everything else.

[Tim Morton]

I will caution everyone to keep this thread from getting political.


So no comments on the girls homepage letter to obama then?:cool:

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I believe personal internet activity has been monitored for years. It's really nothing new.

As for traffic cameras at intersections, I fully support them. I would also like to see traffic cameras at highway ramps to catch lane moochers. I see this as an improvement to my personal safety and quality of life.

-Jeff :)

[Belinda Barfield]

We have cameras on many of our intersections. The cameras were removed from one, but only because no revenue was being generated. Prior to the cameras going up locals followed the five car rule. On green don't proceed into the intersection until the fifth car has run the red light.

[Eric DeSilva]

If you are interested in internet privacy, I'd suggest doing some reading at www.eff.org.

If you are very serious about internet privacy and monitoring, I'd suggest googling "tor network." Tor is a secure, encrypted network within a network developed by EFF and others for, among other things, countries where going to the wrong web pages might get you a visit from the secret police. It is very secure and your ISP will have no idea where you are going.

When I travel, I carry a USB key with Geekmenu (a system for easily launching applications off a USB key), Portable Firefox (a version of firefox that requires no installation on the host PC, no admin rights, and doesn't leave traces cached on the host machine), Portable Tor (a version of tor that can run off a USB key), and Torbutton (a firefox plug in that turns Tor on and off).

The downside is that it is slower and the fact that the nodes shift mean that google may think you are coming in from Paris and serve you up a search page in French.

[Bob Genovesi]

Oh well, I guess there is no escaping surveillance. My city is installing the auto-ticketing cameras at intersections too.

Generally I'm against this sort of thing but having been hit once and too many near misses to count from all the IDIOTIC MORONS that run red lights these days I'm greatly in favor of it.

[Julian Nicks]

You all might be for it, but when the cameras on the street start giving speeding tickets(and they do around here in Illinois on the tollroads in construction zones) you'll be singing a different tune.

[David G Baker]

Joe,
The only Red Light cameras that I know of for sure that were removed were in some areas of San Francisco because I covered the story when I worked in news. During the the story the reporter I worked with quoted several cities that were sued and removed their cameras but I do not know the cities now, been to many years since I covered the story.
There is a site that shows up when I did a Google that lets you plug in the type of camera, the city and the state that will let you know which areas have camera enforcement.
The highways in California have thousands of traffic cameras but I don't know if they are used for enforcement or are for traffic congestion monitoring. You can actually visit those cameras on line and take a look for yourself in some areas of California.

[David Freed]

There was a report on national news a day or two ago about several cities taking them out because people weren't running the lights any more and it was costing them a lot of money to keep them operating. It is probably the same people (for the most part) in every city running the lights every day. After they all get enough tickets they quit running the lights.

[John Schreiber]

Never assume you have privacy on the Internet. Never assume you have privacy in any public space. Never be sure you even have privacy in private places. The most you can hope for is that you just aren't interesting enough to be monitored individually.

There are systems like http://www.torproject.org/, but I wouldn't trust the administrators of that source any more than I would trust the government. Or Google. Or Microsoft.

For most of human history, there has been no significant privacy. In the village or tribe, everybody knew what everybody else was up to. For a little while privacy had the upper hand, but the eyes of the village are back.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Google keeps and sells your activity data.
Netscape was doing it right out of their browser.
No one can convince me that Microsoft doesn't do it with theirs.

Your ISP may is probably maintaining and tracking all you activity. So even if you run through proxy servers or have anomynizer software your ISP knows exactly who you are what you are doing and what you say and look at.

If I recall the FBI forced all the major ISP providers to run their parrallel trasking and recording equipment. Earthlink was one of the last hold outs.

If you want internet privacy you have to hijack access to a satellite and run your own server and uplink. Or put your own satellite up and run your own servers.

[Burt Alcantara]

I'm kind of curious what constitutes a political topic or discussion and what's bad about that. We live in an age where mis-information is rampant in the media and from our elected representatives. How else to find out what's going on?

If you're concerned about internet logging, try EmailThru or any of the proxy clients that mask your IP.

[Boyd Gathwright]

.... Me too.

Thanks Burt




I'm kind of curious what constitutes a political topic or discussion and what's bad about that. We live in an age where mis-information is rampant in the media and from our elected representatives. How else to find out what's going on?

If you're concerned about internet logging, try EmailThru or any of the proxy clients that mask your IP.

[Eric DeSilva]

There are systems like http://www.torproject.org/, but I wouldn't trust the administrators of that source any more than I would trust the government. Or Google. Or Microsoft.

I also referenced Tor earlier in a comment below. Tor is open source, so if there are significant security flaws in it, a community of people polices it. It is not a black box and it does not depend upon the vagaries of a single person or central committee. Tor was designed for countries where going to the wrong site can get you killed by the government. It is not lightweight. That isn't saying that it is impossible to hack, but the only agenda behind Tor is privacy. Serious privacy.

[John Schreiber]

I also referenced Tor earlier in a comment below. Tor is open source, so if there are significant security flaws in it, a community of people polices it. It is not a black box and it does not depend upon the vagaries of a single person or central committee. Tor was designed for countries where going to the wrong site can get you killed by the government. It is not lightweight. That isn't saying that it is impossible to hack, but the only agenda behind Tor is privacy. Serious privacy.
You could be right, and I'm not qualified to evaluate Tor. Before looking at Tor, I looked at other anonymity software where there was central control which could be compromised.

I just know that if I were a large institution which wanted to be able to monitor important communication on the Internet, the first thing I would do would be to invent something like Tor, but install my own back doors into it. I think it's important to never be confident in your privacy.

But I've got nothing to hide, so why should I worry?:rolleyes::eek::D :(

[Dennis Peacock]

Politics and Religion are two topics that for sure are not tolerated here at SMC. Those particular topics are always in "heated" status and while they are important, they serve little here on a woodworking forum that is not here to educate us about politics. There are many other forums in which you can carry on about politics and religion 24 by 7 if you so desire. Besides, almost 100% of the time, someone gets their temper on fire and starts the thread aflame.

It was decided MANY years ago that politics and religion would be two topics that would never be tolerated at SMC. Mainly to help keep the peace around here and keep people from cussin' and fussin' at each other over something they can't change anyway.

[Scott Shepherd]

I looked at tor from the link earlier in the post. From what I read, it's been compromised and they can look at some things to see pretty much where you have been. I think I read that on the wikipedia about it. Not that wikipedia is a valid source, but it all sounded good when I read it, so it must be true :D

[John Bailey]

I'm kind of curious what constitutes a political topic or discussion and what's bad about that. We live in an age where mis-information is rampant in the media and from our elected representatives. How else to find out what's going on?

If you're concerned about internet logging, try EmailThru or any of the proxy clients that mask your IP.

Not bad at all, Burt. That's why there are a lot of forums that you can go to for those discussions. It's just that most of the time political discussion at the Creek have become heated. So, a long time ago it was decided not to have those discussions here.

John

[Eric DeSilva]

Your warning appeared as a reply to my comment, which left me a bit confused, since I wasn't referring to either politics or religion... I did reference countries where going to certain website can get you killed, but I don't think its controversial to say there are repressive regimes in the world...

Just trying to understand...

[Don Eddard]

We live in an age where mis-information is rampant in the media and from our elected representatives. How else to find out what's going on?

Um, somewhere other than a woodworking forum perhaps?

[Dennis Peacock]

Um, somewhere other than a woodworking forum perhaps?

Yes'sir..!!! Exactly correct and thus why politics is not allowed here.

[Burt Alcantara]

What constitutes a political discussion? I've seen threads shut down for "political reasons" but could not find anything political, at least in my eyes. Or, are you guys shutting down what you deem controversial discussions?

Isn't that one of the points of an off topic forum?

Sure, if the flames become fanned, I'll be the first to want the fire brigade to shut it down but sometimes you guys have a hair trigger.

One reason I don't go to other forums for these types of discussions is because I know and trust the members here. We are like minded people, most of whom are mature with years of varied experiences who can understand and appreciate topics that go beyond the latest Walt Disney movie.

These are "interesting" times we live in and they bring up subjects which a lot of us have deep concerns about. I for one would like the ability to express those concerns in a trusting environment.

Burt

[Ken Fitzgerald]

What constitutes a political discussion? I've seen threads shut down for "political reasons" but could not find anything political, at least in my eyes. Or, are you guys shutting down what you deem controversial discussions?

Isn't that one of the points of an off topic forum?

Sure, if the flames become fanned, I'll be the first to want the fire brigade to shut it down but sometimes you guys have a hair trigger.

Burt

Burt,

This site is open to folks from all over the planet, obviously from other countries and from a widespread and diverse variety of religions.

For those reasons, so called "innocent" comments about laws or activities in other countries that would not upset those of us here in Idaho or even the USA might insult folks from other countries even other countries on the North American Continent.

The Off Topic Forum is here for subjects other than the major woodworking and related topics that have their own forums. The Off Topic Forum is not here for "contriversial" subjects. If you want to discuss religion, politics or do a little verbal whipass on someone, the Creek is not the place to try to do it.

While you can certainly disagree with someone you can do so only in a civil manner.

Typically when we edit, close and or move a thread (We never delete threads...they are moved to the Moderator's Forum out of public view) we ask for other Mods opinions. If the majority of Mods feel something was wrongly edited, deleted(even when a post..not a thread is deleted it is viewable by Mods but not the public) or moved, it will be moved back into the forums for public viewing. Dont' think that Mods are just members of a "Good Ole Boys" club either.....we argue among ourselves regularly....and on occassion, we have to apologize to each other. The point is that our Moderator actions are usually a Majority rule event. Sometime we will move a thread first to keep it from igniting instantaneously and then get a majority ruling.

[John Schreiber]

. . . Typically when we edit, close and or move a thread . . .
Sometimes I don't know why a thread was closed or edited. But I often don't know simply because by the time I read it, the mods have already cleaned it up. All I see is something innocuous and I wonder what the big deal is. That's because the problem had already been removed by the time I got there or the thread jumped into the fire after I was there last.

I'd rather see the mods be over cautious rather than biased as I have seen at other places.

[Boyd Gathwright]

Hi Burt,
.... In this case, I can't help but to agree with you especially in "OFF TOPIC DISCUSSION". You impress me as a very flexible and open-minded sort. There comes a point when there is too much sawdust on the floor and you have gone far beyond just living and breathing woodworking. There are more important things in life than woodworking that need to be shared amongst all. It's a shame that you are being scrutinized in a witch-hunt fashion under the label of Political and/or the name of god that might pop up in conversation in an attempt to understand your fellow woodworker just a little better. I have read here at the creek that people have been hesitant for fear of being in violation and have said so. History suggests today's generation will pay the price in the future for these shortcomings.

Just my thoughts



What constitutes a political discussion? I've seen threads shut down for "political reasons" but could not find anything political, at least in my eyes. Or, are you guys shutting down what you deem controversial discussions?

Isn't that one of the points of an off topic forum?

Sure, if the flames become fanned, I'll be the first to want the fire brigade to shut it down but sometimes you guys have a hair trigger.

One reason I don't go to other forums for these types of discussions is because I know and trust the members here. We are like minded people, most of whom are mature with years of varied experiences who can understand and appreciate topics that go beyond the latest Walt Disney movie.

These are "interesting" times we live in and they bring up subjects which a lot of us have deep concerns about. I for one would like the ability to express those concerns in a trusting environment.

Burt

[Mike Henderson]

I can absolutely assure you that if you start discussing politics, within minutes there will be someone making inflammatory postings which will infuriate others, and the flame war will be joined.

I would love to see a polite, reasoned discussion of current political events, or even of political philosophy, but it ain't going to happen in a public forum like this.

The mods would be working overtime editing and deleting posts.

Mike

[Burt Alcantara]

OK. I don't mean to fan fires. My question is innocent. What constitutes a political or religious topic?

If I said "Obama is a s.o.b," that would be opinion. Maybe, not in the taste mods would prefer but it wouldn't be political. But, "Obama is a nice guy," "Obama is a good/bad president," "Obama is not a republican," "Obama is a socialist," etc... how are these statement evaluated? Should I never say any politician's name? TARP? Bailout? Chrysler/GM/FIAT?

How about this one: "Merry Christmas, Happy Easter." Innocent? Religious! Possibly offensive to agnostics, atheists, Hindus, Moslems, Buddhists...etc. Yet, allowed. May sound like an absurd statement but all I'm trying to do is find what the boundries are.

You can no longer say..."nothing political or religious" without creating definitions soundling like Dewey, Cheatum and Howe.

Once again, I'm not throwing gasoline on a burning fire. Just some thought for "Off Topic."

Burt

[Rod Sheridan]

I can absolutely assure you that if you start discussing politics, within minutes there will be someone making inflammatory postings which will infuriate others, and the flame war will be joined.

I would love to see a polite, reasoned discussion of current political events, or even of political philosophy, but it ain't going to happen in a public forum like this.

The mods would be working overtime editing and deleting posts.

Mike

I agree Mike, I belong to another forum which started an experiment called "Tavern on the Screen" which was a forum where you could discuss politics, religion etc.

Many of the threads start out with good discussions, and I learn a lot from them.

It's an American forum, and being Canadian I'm often teasingly branded as a socialist when health care comes up, however the discussion stays factual and some of us learn things/change our outlook or viewpoint.

Then it goes to hell in a hand cart with people making inflammatory comments, the politics becomes left vs right instead of reasoned discussion and we all lose out.

It's too bad that we focus on "being right" instead of being educated in some of those discussions.

Regards, Rod.

[Burt Alcantara]

Rod,
I'm all for locking down threads if they get inflammatory. I've seen a few threads on the Creek that were extremely inflammatory with a lot of name calling. Had nothing to do with politics or religion. In the end, the participants kissed and made up. That's why I participate in SMC. Members are thoughtful, considerate, respectful and mature in ways I've not found on other boards.

Burt

[Keith Outten]

It is impractical for me or anyone else to try to define political or religious content as they are applied here at The Creek. It can't be done and we can't even come up with definitions that would be approved by our Staff, much less the huge numbers of people who belong to this Community.

I leave these kinds of decisions up to our Moderators. Even though I may disagree with some calls and they may disagree with me at times we try to moderate our forums the best we can.

Everyone knows that SawMill Creek is a "Privately Owned Moderated Forum" and the rules here are based on what is best for the majority...not individuals. I have made this statement hundreds of times over the last six years and our position is not likely to ever change. The reason it won't change is not because of my personal preference....this is exactly what the majority of this Community wants and they have spoken load and clear, time and time again and I listen when the majority speaks.

From Section I of our Terms of Service:
In addition, SawMill Creek shall have the right (but not the obligation) in its sole discretion to edit, refuse or delete any Content that it reasonably considers to violate these Terms without notice. You understand and agree that the service is provided "AS-IS" and that SawMill Creek assumes no responsibility for the timeliness, deletion, mis-delivery or failure to store any user communications.

[Burt Alcantara]

100% agreement!

Burt